#21  
Old 21-10-2010, 11:41 AM
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The Wishing Well (NGC 3532) is not only my favourite cluster, but also the first cluster I stumbled across when I first got my scope. Sab, that looks a work of great patience plotting all those stars in all the right places - I would think this would be so much more difficult than a glob. (?!)

Alexander, thanks for posting that pic- that sketch of 47Tuc is absolutely jaw dropping. I observed the *%#@ out of this the other night and it put a smile on my face when I saw this sketch as to how much it resembled what I saw. I wonder how long it took to do it .
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Old 21-10-2010, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Suzy View Post
The Wishing Well (NGC 3532) is not only my favourite cluster, but also the first cluster I stumbled across when I first got my scope. Sab, that looks a work of great patience plotting all those stars in all the right places - I would think this would be so much more difficult than a glob. (?!)

Alexander, thanks for posting that pic- that sketch of 47Tuc is absolutely jaw dropping. I observed the *%#@ out of this the other night and it put a smile on my face when I saw this sketch as to how much it resembled what I saw. I wonder how long it took to do it .
Thanks Suzy. I'm pretty anal when it comes to sketches, I want everything to look as I see it in real time. Can't remember how long it took, but probably over an hour.

The 8" Meade starfinder I did it with was an excellent scope, absolutely fantastic optics. I borrowed it from a local astro club, I can only wish I owned it as a grab n go! I've made a few Jupiter sketches with that scope aswell.
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Old 21-10-2010, 05:06 PM
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That is a magnificent sketch, Sab. So true to the view through the eyepiece.
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Old 21-10-2010, 10:23 PM
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That is a magnificent sketch, Sab. So true to the view through the eyepiece.
thanks Patrick. It's a truly overwhelming object though the eyepiece. I was casually trolling thru my folder and chanced upon it and was like "bloody hell I actually went thru with that?"

I want to sketch it with the 12", but even M42 looks overwhelming in the scope, let alone this 3532 bugger. Let's not even mention the Eta Carina nebula.... sketching that is my ultimate challenge!

Actually I do have a sketch of Eta Carina made with a 4.5" newt...

Also noticed I have a sketch of M42 with the 4.5" newt with the E and F stars showing...
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Old 21-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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You are very brave, Sab, with 3532!

And Eta Carina! I started a sketch of her earlier this year. So damned big and detailed too. I couldn't manage to complete it as I will need a good couple of nights of knock it over, and this season finished before I could. Next season.

You should be able to see the dark pillars in it too with your 12", Sab. I saw them from home, albeit with my 17.5", but Hickny managed them too with his 13.1" from Sydney. And there's the Homunculous Nebula, and the various clusters, and the various shock waves, and maybe a few Boks too...
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Old 21-10-2010, 11:05 PM
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You are very brave, Sab, with 3532!

And Eta Carina! I started a sketch of her earlier this year. So damned big and detailed too. I couldn't manage to complete it as I will need a good couple of nights of knock it over, and this season finished before I could. Next season.
lol thanks Alex. I think it had to do with the fact, that back in those days (2005 lol), I had very limited time with my holy grail, an 8" telescope, and I was going to milk it to no end.

Quote:
You should be able to see the dark pillars in it too with your 12", Sab. I saw them from home, albeit with my 17.5", but Hickny managed them too with his 13.1" from Sydney. And there's the Homunculous Nebula, and the various clusters, and the various shock waves, and maybe a few Boks too...
Once I trained my 12" on Eta Carina at 200x or so with a UHC filter.

I needed a change of underwear



Last edited by pgc hunter; 22-10-2010 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 24-10-2010, 11:12 PM
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Back to topic!

In Paddy's first solar sketch report, he mentioned having difficulty achieving certain effects, and the use of an eraser wasn't doing what he would have liked to have achieved. I thought I'd add the suggestions I made there to this thread as it may prove helpful. It's more of a mind-set and a little technique:

Though Paddy's question specifically was on a solar sketch, drawing a DSO is the same, where you are laying your lines on white paper or black.

" I have a couple of suggestions. One is to plan your sketch first! How? It's in the methodology in drawing development.

Here is where pencil grade selection helps.

Using a hard pencil, like 2H or even 4H, lightly mark the position of the main features, boundaries, highlights, fading direction and the such (this planning lines can be removed then as needed with an eraser if needed). Then there are two choices- darkest next or lightest next. Darkest sets the tone for the lighter areas, the reverse for the lightest first.

By marking the highlights in "AR 1117" (a bright 'line' connecting various sunspots in a cluster of them), you can leave these areas alone preserving the maximum brightness of the paper, then only shade the surrounds. Using a rubber to only create the highlights is harder to control the edges and softness sometimes needed. It can leave the 'highlights' dirty or too sharp or the wrong shape. If the highlights are planned for, using an eraser can be less trying and more deliberate.

One tip my sister gave me (and I mentioned this in another thread) is to do a little drawing exercise before sitting down to your task. It might seem trivial or a waste of time or 'I can't be bothered' thing, but it really, really works. Like any form of exercise, our fingers, eyes and mind need to be prepped to optimise performance.

It is a logical thing. Heard of "getting your eye in"? Same thing, hand-eye co-ordination and tricking up your fine motor skills. Noticed how as your sketch progresses, the first lines you laid down are less than convincing?

And what was this "exercise" she suggested? A cube in perspective, say with 40mm sides, and with three roughly equal sized sides showing, then shade in the three surfaces, lightest to darkest. NO erasers or rubbers or smudge sticks or what ever! Just you and the pencil tip. It's all about control and impression.

See why I don't use 'smudging' now? "

Michael also mentioned using an "eraser shield". It is a very thin, small sheet of stainless steel with several shapes punched out. You place the most appropriate "shape" over the area to be rubbed out, there by protecting the surrounding areas. Good gizmo too, . Mine is now 27 years old, I use it, but not much. Too delicate to use in the field:

http://www.google.com.au/images?q=tb...IW3Rumf-Fpe9U=

Mental.

Last edited by mental4astro; 24-10-2010 at 11:28 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2010, 08:16 AM
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Sketching a GC

Hi all,

Jeff Young's rendition of M3 is incredible. This link takes you to his sketch which also contains some of the technical details used to create this stunning sketch. It is very much electric, but unlike a sketch transfered onto black paper, it is an inverted scanned image:

http://www.asod.info/?p=1295#comment-7878

While you are on Astro. Sketch of the Day, look through the Gallery. Scott Mellish features prominently. This fantastic Aussie sketch artist has produced some of the most extraordinary work I've seen, including the one of 47Tuc I noted here in post No. 17 below.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
Hi all,

Jeff Young's rendition of M3 is incredible. This link takes you to his sketch which also contains some of the technical details used to create this stunning sketch. It is very much electric, but unlike a sketch transfered onto black paper, it is an inverted scanned image:

http://www.asod.info/?p=1295#comment-7878

While you are on Astro. Sketch of the Day, look through the Gallery. Scott Mellish features prominently. This fantastic Aussie sketch artist has produced some of the most extraordinary work I've seen, including the one of 47Tuc I noted here in post No. 17 below.

geez how do these people do it? 5 hours sitting at the eyepiece plotting every star in accurately? Or do they plot in rich parts randomly while plotting the brighter stars according to their actual positions? Jeff Young, he's known for rather spectacular sketches and regularly posts them on CN.


eidt--- upon posting that i just noticed he gave a detailed description of how he actually does it

Inverted scanned images are a good way to go IMO, you get the effect of a white pastel on black, but with the accuracy and convenience of a pencil.
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2010, 09:57 PM
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It is a beautiful sketch indeed. And well worth a look at Scott's work. Love the NGC 1365. And even his signature is beautiful.
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  #31  
Old 04-11-2010, 09:29 AM
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Or do they plot in rich parts randomly while plotting the brighter stars according to their actual positions?
The current ASOD show's how one fellow does it. As he's done two sketches, one at low and the other high power, the main brighter stars are plotted, the remainder is 'random' to achieve the overall effect. You can see the variations in this 'random' nature when you compare the two sketches, while he's maintianed the brighter ones.

http://www.asod.info/?p=4221

Another is to plot the brighter ones first, then take 'sections' bounded by the brighter stars and then plot the remainder as finely or randomly as you like.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:15 AM
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Another amazing rendition. As one of the comments puts it, it's like looking through the eyepiece .
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:38 AM
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I found this article on sketching the moon from the BAA Lunar Section. Lots of other good info and observations also available at the site.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:07 PM
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Great link, Michael. Thanks.
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:01 PM
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Looks very helpful - thanks, Michael
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:09 PM
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DON'T look at your work!!

Here is one to get your mind, fingers & pencils, in a real knot.

I've been speaking to an illustrator with many decades of experience with the pencil, and this is his pearl of wisdom-

"If you need averted vision to see a feature, then that is how you should see it in your sketch"

Holy cow! One thing is to look directly at your work, it is another 'NOT' to look at your work whilst you do it.

This is the ultimate test in your lightness of touch. So fine a touch that it requires averted vision to see it. Groovey I say!

The way I see this to be achieved is not to use just a white pencil to do the shading (assuming the work is being done onto black paper). A grey colouring pencil, or a very pale blue, for the very faint details. White will have too much 'punch', building the layers gradually.
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
Here is one to get your mind, fingers & pencils, in a real knot.

I've been speaking to an illustrator with many decades of experience with the pencil, and this is his pearl of wisdom-

"If you need averted vision to see a feature, then that is how you should see it in your sketch"

Holy cow! One thing is to look directly at your work, it is another 'NOT' to look at your work whilst you do it.

This is the ultimate test in your lightness of touch. So fine a touch that it requires averted vision to see it. Groovey I say!

The way I see this to be achieved is not to use just a white pencil to do the shading (assuming the work is being done onto black paper). A grey colouring pencil, or a very pale blue, for the very faint details. White will have too much 'punch', building the layers gradually.
That doesn't appeal much to me. I use averted vision to see some things because my photopic vision can't under low light - only my scotopic vision can. I'm not going to view the sketch under low light conditions. In fact, my scotopic vision won't work well under full light and I'll be using cone cells, not rods. So using averted vision I would just be using peripheral cones and I have fewer of those than rods, from memory.
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Old 12-11-2010, 11:05 PM
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Let us know how you go with that one Alex. Sounds like it would either be a big surprise or a complete disaster.
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Old 13-11-2010, 12:09 AM
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Let us know how you go with that one Alex. Sounds like it would either be a big surprise or a complete disaster.
Pending my next sketch, when the clouds, Moon & life, all align to allow me to pen one, have a look at Scott Melish's latest offering- USE averted vision here:

http://www.asod.info/?p=4283

By the way, I've managed a prelimanary Lunar sketch. Needs a little more work to achieve the desired effects. I also need to aquire a few new pencils. The 'EE' pencil is no longer produced anymore I've come to find out. My sister has told me that the 'replacement' grades come to be the 8B & 9B, and oddly enough, she tells me that they lack the 'shine' typical of graphite. Just what I'm looking for.
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Old 16-11-2010, 09:15 PM
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Hi all,

Susy had asked me to do a bit of a sketch 'how-to', and with the sketch of Posidonius I posted in the thread "Lunar sketch night", Paddy also asked a question and prompted me to make the same notes here in the Sketching Tips thread.

Paddy had asked how to gauge the scale of a drawing according to how you see things in the eyepiece: do you draw to the same size as you see it, or do you make things larger. In a nut shell it depends on what you are trying to draw. How you go about this is detailed below.

I'll show how I go about it with a rough process on the sketch of Posidonius, following the pics numbered 1 to 3, and starting with a really hard pencil in numbers 1 & 2, like a 6H as these lines will be rubbed out as you go. The last pic is my finished sketch which I nutted out at the eyepiece last Friday night.

1: Have a good look at the area in question. Then squint a little to get an overall notion of the light and dark areas as this will give you the direction of the main axis of the feature to be sketched. Then you set the scale by 'boxing in' the main feature- here a crater. The rest of the sketch will follow this very scale. How do I determine how large to make the scale - just decide on the boundries of the area to be sketched and just get the 'boxing in' done. Nothing more. The rest will follow.

2: Next position the other major feature along the axis in proportion to the principle one. Then roughly mark the other main craters and any significant BLACK features, here a mountain ridge.

From here, rub out any lines that are now redundant as you need to.

3: Start shading in the black shading, being careful to note the fine lines that are in black. This takes time as most of the detail sits here. Use no harder pencil than 2B as these need to be definite. The rest of the softer features can then be filled in. Write any notes you like with 6H pencil that will help remind of details.

Back in the house, these black features I went over with a black felt-tip pen. Make sure it is a permanent, water proof marker because if you go over the highlights with white paint the ink may bleed. The softer shading is also worked on. Highlights with white paint need to be done with a very fine brush and with next to no excess water in its bristles or the page will warp.

I hope this makes sense.

Mental.
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