Comfort, quick looks and convenience of little scopes seem to be winning over larger aperture and the wealth of detail they can reveal....
Seeing a beautiful SDM scope listed in the classifieds for some time at an absolute bargain price made me wonder why someone has not jumped on it....
The visual observers seem to be doing so with ever smaller scopes. I can't help thinking that they are missing out on so much. I too spent a long time with various smaller scopes and did enjoy them for lunar and planetary viewing and the challenge of trying to find object with small aperture but I have no hesitation in admitting that when it comes to DSO viewing my fine 5" refractor might as well serve as a finderscope for the 18" Dob.
The difference on galaxies, globular clusters, and nebulae is night and day.....
I am finding I get very little eyepiece time at dark sky nights due to a large queue forming next to "Guinevere" each time I set it up.....
I can understand that the average age of people in this hobby is going up and thus some would struggle with the logistics. I read also that many feel the set up takes too long.
I have yet to see anyone set up an Eq mount and scope and be polar aligned and viewing faster than it takes to wheel out the big dob and have it setup, collimated and the DSC aligned.
Yes, I do need to have a ladder to use on about half of the targets but as long as you get a ladder with a handrail you will be more comfy than standing on the ground.
I am curious how many would like to jump on a scope like the Mary Rose if the Chief Financial Officer would allow it.... Or do you really prefer using a small scope often over a large scope a few times a month?
Thought about getting a big visual scope to replace a 12inch, but eventually decided that it probably doesn't make much difference for looking at the bottoms of clouds with declining eyesight. Funding is not the issue.
Semi-automated imaging from an obs at least gets some results through the few holes that appear (seemingly always about 3am) at this time of year. 200-250mm is enough aperture to be seeing-limited, so that is big enough for imaging.
The Mary Rose is up there on my wish list and as you say, it is a real bargain! My wallet is just too light at this stage. It would be a very nice replacement for my 12" Orion and ironically enough, probably far more manageable too
Matt you make some important points about the evolution of our hobby, or obsession. Big Dobs have a lot of attraction to visual observers, until the realities of managing them, and their cost, etc emerge. I sold my 16" Dob because, as good as the views were, i was using it less and less due to the hassles associated with it. No doubt that SDM make wonderful 'Objet d'Art' but ease of use, concern about maintaining the finish, transport and security, intrude. As you point out, age has alot to do with our scope ownership decisions, and bad backs, hips, knees, etc lead us to seek less weighty and complex solution. Declining eyesight also mitigates the big advantage of large Dobs, and force many of us into imaging. I know of one person currently getting a very large Dob built, and no doubt it will be spectacular, and i would love to have a look through it (with my one reasonably good eye) but the reality of ladder observation, cost, management, etc will keep my feet on the ground in my observatory. These are only my opinions.
@ Flash,
You wouldn't even need to take down the scope after viewing with the way your house and yard are set up..... But you might need a 5 step ladder instead of my 3 step......
@Ray, point taken re the winter skies around Ardrossan....
@ Colin, you so need this and the way you reversed that portaloo trailer shows you could transport it (just for your info, the eyepiece height of the Mary Rose 20"F5 would be a bit lower than my 18"F5.6 so a 3step would suffice)
@ Glen, I agree there are many reasons not to buy a large aperture scope but as you would know, when the "stars align just so" for the perfect dark site, great seeing, great company, there is no substitute for decent aperture.
For me personally one night per month with decent seeing at a dark site justifies the cost, maintenance (there really is very little maintenance) and any 'hassles'.....
Shhhh! I am currently negotiating with the CFO for the release of $10k..... Though I fear I will lose as the size difference is too close to my current diy job.....
If I had been able to leave my 16" Lightbridge set up and wheel it out to the observing spot I would have kept it, but the convenience of a go-to, alt/az mounted C11 Edge won over.
I think the C11 or 12" dob are the perfect combination of light gathering and portability (when that compromise is needed).
I'd have to argue that setting up the big dob is an absolute breeze compared to the imaging gear. It takes me less than 40 minutes to have it collimated and the servocat aligned. On the other hand I've spent hours contorting myself into position to use PA scopes, mucking about with dodgy cables, batteries and inverters, recalcitrant laptops and finding creative new ways to assemble sequences of swear words while Barry is quietly enjoying the view of the heavens through his 28", (and as well as my sideshow) having finished setup some hours earlier...
I don't know what the fuss about ladders is either, most of the time you sit on it and it is perfectly comfortable. As long as you limit yourself to a couple of bottles of wine you should be OK, but I'm ashamed to admit I found out about that (and how Jackie Chan does those tricks on ladders) the hard way.
These days we've got to drive a long way for some dark skies, and I dread the drive far more than setting up my spaceship. Here's me as close to heaven as I want to be.
cheers,
Andrew.
Poor timing more than anything. We bought a block of land at the end of last year and are in the middle of planning our house build so money will be tight very soon. We'd love to have a larger aperture, quality built scope like the one in the classifieds but it's probably not ideal spending that sort of money right now.
Maybe in 12 months time we'd be ready to look at something like that. I'd already decided that would be our next big purchase after the house It will cost a lot more, and the 2 year wait time will hurt but we'll be in a better position to do that. Can't rush these things I suppose!
Good posting Matt. I'm still in the honeymoon period, so am using the TOA130 more than any other at the moment. But as you say, galaxies, globs, planetary nebula etc, take on a new dimension with every increase in aperture. The best views possible require a ladder, but I don't see that as a deal breaker. Especially with the new generation of fast mirrors, coma correctors and highly corrected eyepieces, very large dobs can be enjoyed at only 2 or 3 steps off the ground.
When people give their telescope a name, how does the value it has to them relate to its actual value?
Five hundred dollars per inch is apo territory.
Some people name their scopes, some don't. I know people who've given their 60mm refractor a name. And a 20" newt is an APO. In fact it's better than an APO because every wavelength of light will focus at the same spot, not just three.
And once you get into the 6"-8" APO territory where you have a hope of seeing deep sky objects, albeit quite dimly, you will find that the cost function is parabolic, not linear.
Comfort, quick looks and convenience of little scopes seem to be winning over larger aperture and the wealth of detail they can reveal....
Seeing a beautiful SDM scope listed in the classifieds for some time at an absolute bargain price made me wonder why someone has not jumped on it....
Matt - my feeling is that to a large extent the demograghic of IIS members leans more towards technology , imaging and smaller telescopes . The body of large aperture lovers are out there . It may pay to advertise in other places - how about Australian Sky and telescope for a start. There are a lot of people of retirement age retiring to country properties who want to satisfy their life long dream of having an observatory and a large scope .
On the ladder issue - I'm not a great fan of them - I am a bit of a wimp - I don't find the experience of standing up near the top of one very pleasant and smaller apertures would win in that regard but wouldn't
have said that when I was younger .
There are of course new players in the medium large field with lightweight 20" fast scopes with GOTO and tracking sub $10K which all add to the range choice available for anyone looking to really `gulp' those photons and any second hand scope unfortunately is going to have to compete with the new.
.....The body of large aperture lovers are out there ..
There may not be that many. I agree there are IIS members with large Dobs, and some of them have posted in this thread, but how many new entrants are there in that market segment in the course of a year. IMHO any seller is trying to reach a very small number of prospects, and advertising elsewhere would be wise, even overseas. The market in Australia maybe saturated. Turnover rates are very slow.
First, what do you consider large? 14", 16", 20", 25", bigger?
I got into the hobby a year ago. I have an 8" Orion XT8i Intelliscope. For me this was as big as I wanted to go. I could have had a 10" but I wanted the scope to be very convenient at a weight I could easily lift as a unit, so I went for the 8 and am glad I did. It lives on a cart in my garage. I can roll it out to the observing location in front of my house with ease.
Naturally I am already dreaming about a bigger scope.
12 to 16" SCTs look wonderful but are just too expensive.
If I stay with a Dob design, which is likely, it will probably be a 14" truss Dob as this is the tallest I can put on a cart and roll it out of my garage while vertical. Also I can reach the eyepiece on a 14 without a ladder. And if I want I can take a truss dob apart for transport. The Orion XXL14I or G are the target scope for the next upgrade some years down the road. http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/...CategoryId=398
If I went bigger than that I would want to have a permanent observatory. I don't see that ever happening, but that XX14i or XX14G are real possibilities.
I would suggest that the price this particular scope is being advertised at is more than reasonable. If you consider that the ServoCat alone is a + $3K option and a 20" mirror will cost more than $8000 to have made, some lucky person will effectively get the scope for free......
I don't believe the scope has any drive system , but you certainly wouldn't get change these days from $10,000 for a bespoke 20" mirror !
I have been following this thread with much interest. Right now, Peter Read, SDM Telescopes is building my 28" f/3.3. Among other factors, it depends on what you observe as to whether a big dob is for you. I observe variables and look forward to getting down to mag 16.5+. Most of the stars I observe are in the South to West quadrant. Because stars move in a westerly direction as the night proceeds, I don't need to look directly overhead. I have a small ladder and may need to go to the second step. But not often.
From what I read above, two of the disadvantages with a big dob are transporting it and the set up time. These are not an issue for me. I have an observatory at my place, about 100 metres up the hill from the house. I won't be moving it around as it will be set up permanently.
One big advantage in getting one made by SDM is that Peter contours it to your specific needs and he is doing just that for me. When it arrives, I will post pictures and give a report.
Stephen Hovell
Pukemaru Observatory
341 Snelgar Road, RD 2
Kaitaia, New Zealand 0482
+173° 20' 07.67" -35° 05' 39.52"
It will cost a lot more, and the 2 year wait time will hurt but we'll be in a better position to do that. Can't rush these things I suppose!
