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Old 03-05-2019, 11:04 AM
Hemi
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Everyone had a newt?

G'Day All!

Ive never had a newt (on any mount), just my C925 SCT and a 102 refractor.
Should I get a newt, am I missing something, even if its just a right of passage?

Ive always felt guilty about never having had a newt, or never ever having had to collimate two mirrors etc etc.

Should I get a newt? Always thought about a 16in SW DOB, but im small, and its.....BIG. I like my comforts and so a refractor and an SCT are just....comfortable.

What do you think?

Cheers


Hemi
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:54 AM
jamespierce (James)
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There is nothing magical about newts ... but refractors and schmid-cass style scopes don't scale up as well once you get past 11 or 12 inches. A 16 inch dobsonian is a pretty special size for a telescope, big enough to enjoy lots and lots of faint objects but still somewhat managable.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:02 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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I wouldnít use anything else for visual and AP
My 8Ē f5 blows me away for astrophotography and my 12Ē Goto for visual is unbelievable
Check my photos in the beginners AP section
Cheers from a newt lover !!
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:13 PM
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I have a 10 inch f10 Newt and with its 20mm secondary is bar none the best platetary scope I have ever looked through , a friend at the time's 152mm f12 AP super planetary APO could not compete at all , our clubs C14 had no chance as well .

The only down size was that the eyepiece was nearly 2.5 metres up , but a good solid set of steps fixed that , OH it was definatly NOT portable ...

Brian.
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Old 03-05-2019, 03:12 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Hemi,

The BEST scope is the one that gets used.

If you are happy with what you have, then you a blessed!

Why would you feel "guilty"???

Your question seems to me more about justifying you getting big aperture than what a "Newtonian" entails.

Why not get a BIG SCT then?

There is soooo much hype, demonizing and scaremongering about collimating Newts that it is astounding. It is only aligning the mirrors, nothing more, nothing less. And ALL the hype exclusively stems from the word ""collimation"

There is nothing demonic about the collimation process. Remember that a Newt is a scope where the optics are not rigidly held in place, but in spring loaded mechanisms, so if subjected to vibrations, say from a car or setting up and taking down, things can move. And any movement is only very small. Ok, so you need to tweak a screw or two 1/16th of a turn, big deal! The optics will not be horribly misaligned. It's done at the start of your session and you know that if you spend the 2 min that it will take AT MOST, the scope will be performing its very best for you!

Don't make "collimation" your excuse for not getting a big aperture if that's what you really want. More significant is do you have the space to store it and a car to transport it if you need to. Those are much more pressing issues to consider.

Alex.

Last edited by mental4astro; 03-05-2019 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:15 PM
RyanJones
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Honestly, I love my newt. Having said that, 90% of my astro is photography. If that is the avenue you wish to persue then id say get one. Everything is a balance though. I do find AP easier in bad light pollution with my SCT. Every scope has it's pluses and minuses. As mental4astro says, the best scopes are the ones you use.
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:36 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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One important thing to consider is Cost !!
Newts do give the biggest bang for the buck
Refractors are great but can be expensive particularly if your not all together happy with the one you choose to buy
My 2 cents added .......
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:41 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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Hemi,
I've built and used many Newtonian's over the years - from a 6" f8 (back in 1966) through 18" Dobbies and almost every aperture in between.
I used a great 12" f5 for many years, visually searching for Super Novae.

I feel the "sweet spot" for a Newtonian is a 10" aperture, and around f6 (easy on the eyepiece)
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:56 PM
Renato1 (Renato)
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The best views I have ever had of Jupiter and Saturn bar none and by a long shot, were through the 10" dob of a fellow club member (and other club members also agreed it was the best they'd seen). He used a Panoptic in a Powermate for the eyepiece, and had designed and optimised the telescope as a planetary telescope using the best parts available. Only problem was that his primary mirror alone cost more than either my SCT or my 14.5" dob. Hard to buy his set-up off the shelf.

The best views of the planets I've ever seen with my telescopes is in my 14.5" dob. Only problem there was that the times that occurred were few and far between - it was always at the end of a long observing session out in the country, where the telescope had cooled down and atmosphere had become excellent.

If you want a big dob, you'll want one that you can handle, and not be a grinding exercise.

Before doing that though consider - have you actually looked at most or all of the objects listed in say SkyAtlas 2000 with your 9.25" SCT?

On the other hand, if you really wanted to pick off all the DSOs in the Large Magellanic Cloud listed in Herald Bobroff AstroAtlas, you really need something bigger than your SCT.
Regards,
Renato
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:44 PM
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doppler (Rick)
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I guess a 10"f5 or 8"F6 newt is the perfect in-between scope at 1200mm focal length (C925 SCT @ 2350mm and 102 refractor @ 660mm)

Rick
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:55 PM
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Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
hemi,

the best scope is the one that gets used.

If you are happy with what you have, then you a blessed!

why would you feel "guilty"???

Your question seems to me more about justifying you getting big aperture than what a "newtonian" entails.

Why not get a big sct then?

There is soooo much hype, demonizing and scaremongering about collimating newts that it is astounding. It is only aligning the mirrors, nothing more, nothing less. And all the hype exclusively stems from the word ""collimation"

There is nothing demonic about the collimation process. Remember that a newt is a scope where the optics are not rigidly held in place, but in spring loaded mechanisms, so if subjected to vibrations, say from a car or setting up and taking down, things can move. And any movement is only very small. Ok, so you need to tweak a screw or two 1/16th of a turn, big deal! The optics will not be horribly misaligned. It's done at the start of your session and you know that if you spend the 2 min that it will take at most, the scope will be performing its very best for you!

don't make "collimation" your excuse for not getting a big aperture if that's what you really want. More significant is do you have the space to store it and a car to transport it if you need to. those are much more pressing issues to consider.

Alex.


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  #12  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:48 PM
Hemi
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Thanks everyone for some great perspectives.

James, I agree there is probably nothing more magical about a newt over any other, they are all magical. Iíve just never had the magic from a newt, as Iíve never owned one.

Doppler, I get a nice in between fL with the 6.3 reducer on the C925. Wouldnít the 10 or 8in newt be too similar in aperture to it?

Hah, Ronato, very true, Iíll never see everything that I can with either of my 2 scopes, but sometimes you want to see something differently. Like driving to work in a faster car.

Startrek, your images are amazing, Iíve seen everyone. Iím very tempted.

Hey Alex, words of the wise, as usual. Totally agree. Thatís why I only have 2 scopes, and my c925 never really gets deposed off the AZEQ6. I am totally smitten with it. Not really guilty, but always thought that ďproperĒ astronomers had newts. (Excuse me Galileo!). I would love a 16in DOB I think....guilty as charged of aperture fever.

Itís meant to be the first weekend of the dry season here in Darwin. Itís not rained in a while, and I was looking forward to the new moon. But the clouds have rolled in out of nowhere and the heavens have opened. and I only mentioned buying a new telescope!

Hope itís better for you guys, wherever you are.

Hemi
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:52 PM
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Here is a shot of my 10 inch f10 I have rebuilt this scope many times over the years , It's now in 2 pieces ( OTA , they clip together ) on a Dobsonion mount . The silver bit's in this photo .

Brian.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:10 AM
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Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
One important thing to consider is Cost !!
Newts do give the biggest bang for the buck
Refractors are great but can be expensive particularly if your not all together happy with the one you choose to buy
My 2 cents added .......


100% agree, but for me it was, many years ago I rushed in, like many thinking I know best, and bought a 120mm Acromat, this was 15 years ago, sold after a month, then I bought a 8" observatory class newtonian, again thinking I knew what I wanted, waste of £2k, sold, came back to Astronomy two years ago and spent SIX months asking questions on this and other forums, re bought a refractor and have never looked back, but got the right one this time.

Buy in haste, repent at leisure
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:14 AM
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Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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Quote:
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Iíve just never had the magic from a newt, as Iíve never owned one.


Hemi
I've never owned a Ferrari but I don't miss or want one, or had any envy
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:55 AM
Hemi
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Thanks Jeremy,
Itís nice that we all are different.
I think a newt will give me a different experience of this hobby, than my current scopes. For me thatís what itís about I suppose. Thatís why I like to observe, image, sketch, use binos, have a go at a few simple ATM/DIY projects etc. (Iím terrible at all of them, I might add!).....Ēresistance is futileĒ, (I think your a Dr Who fan Jeremy?), so a newt is inevitable.

Cheers

H
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Old 04-05-2019, 08:15 AM
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MPS (Mathew)
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I have a 10' dob, great scope, great views. Has the old school feel which I like as well as the room to tinker with it. Great complement to the various ' mirror' collection
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Old 04-05-2019, 08:23 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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One thing I never, ever, want to do is not respect people's different $$$ they have available to spend. There's plenty of good but expensive gear, and rattling off those Brand names is easy. I try a different approach, to find those gems hidden among the modestly priced gear, and discuss those. Not everyone can afford to drop $1000 on an EP, but with some thought given to the scope/scopes you have, there may be $200, $100, or even $50 eyepiece options that will do a stonking good job.

My quip of getting a big SCT was meant tongue in cheek. There is a huge price difference between a 16" Skywatcher dob and a 16" Meade SCT... Not to mention logistical.

Hemi, if you ate considering a light bucket, then of course a big Newt/dob is a special beast. I have dobs from 114mm to 17.5", and each fulfills a particular niche for me. Tonight for instance, I'm going to my dark site at Katoomba Airfield (first time in 3 years ) and I'll be taking my 17.5" dob & my 8" f/4 dobbie too. There are things the 8" can do that the 17.5" can't, so I will exploit both.

Is there an astro association in Darwin you can join? I know the weather systems of the tropics plays havoc with astro, but hopefully there is a modest astro group happening. Maybe someone there has a big light bucket you can look through before laying down your money, and also come to see what it takes to wrangle it from set up to take down.

As Jeremy said "Buy in haste, regret at leisure" - great line!

Alex.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:41 PM
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Outcast (Carlton)
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Hey Hemi,

This is kinda close to my heart so; I'll pop my perspective in here for ya.. maybe it will help...

When I first got into Astro approx 11 years ago... everyone said.. buy a Dob, best bang for buck... & you know what; they are absolutely right but... in my situation at the time I wanted light and portable, easy to pack up & transport, yada, yada, yada... so, I bought an 80mm APO refractor secondhand to keep the price down..... huge difference hey??

Was I disappointed... nope, not at all, it met the brief... it was light, portable easy to handle in & out of my house... it got used... The views in my very much beginner opinion were outstanding...

Then I wanted more.. I wanted aperture... I knew I could get an 8" or 10" dob at a great price but..... they were big, they were cumbersome, I had to learn how to collimate one.. so... I bought an 8" SCT, again secondhand to keep the price down... I love my 8" SCT... the views were a step up in wow factor from the 80mm... I thought... I have everything I'll ever need here... & so stupidly I sold the 80mm, invested some money in some relatively good quality eyepieces... am I disappointed.. not on your life.. recently had it out under truly dark skies for the first time & observed some things for the first time that I could not have gotten with the 80mm...

However, I still wanted bigger but, I still look at big dobs (the generally commercially available ones) & think... I can't be bothered lugging that in and out each night or packing it into the car.. 6 months ago, I enquired on the cost of a pretty much custom made dob that gave me aperture but, packed down small.. ah, now we are talking... but, at the time.. the cost was a huge impediment to me...

Recently, things changed, some money has come to me so now, I have a custom made 12" dob on order & I cannot wait to get my hands on it... Would I like bigger... sure but, then that comes with a cost & 'portability'... yada, yada, yada..

I share this with you only because this is my journey to gaining aperture... your reasons might be different, your finances might be different & your attitude towards portability, convenience may be different but, this is my journey... so, if it helps you way up the pro's & con's then that's awesome... if lugging a 16" collapsible dob in and out isn't a consideration or, money is no object to gaining relatively lightweight, truly portable aperture.. then good luck to you... no jealousy intended...

What's the view like in a large(ish) aperture dob.. no idea... I'll let you know in a few months when I finally get to look through one.. sadly we don't have a club up here so, no opportunity to try before I buy.. but, hey... I'm pretty sure it will be pretty damn good...

Cheers
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:21 PM
Hemi
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Wow, thanks again everyone, I am always humbled by the responses.

Hi Outcast, thanks for sharing your take on this. Alas, cost is most definitely a consideration. And I should stress again that it’s going to take some tectonics to shift my 925 off the mount. My first scope! After years of armchair observing. I would of course love to have the “big dob”, but ultimately would like just to have a newt to view through, whatever size, mass produced or custom or even ATM. I’m lucky, in that I have a semi permanent setup. So a big dob would be mostly setup, ready to go.

Alex, there aren’t any Astro societies in Darwin I will get down to a star party interstate at some point. I’m completely opposite of the buy in haste philosophy! It takes me forever to buy anything of substance. Too much cogitation at times. But it’s served me well so far...very few regrets with my current two scopes. Although I wish I had researched a bit more about focal reduction on the ES102. But I wasn’t thinking of imaging back then.

I’m very tempted by an 8in newt, or having a go at building a simple 6in. ( not the grinding bit,)

H
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