#1  
Old 23-07-2009, 05:38 PM
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hotspur (Chris)
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Would'nt recomend sigma lens

Just a quick note that may be usefull to ice in space readers,it cost me

alot to learn it,I recently bought a canon 450D D/SLR,it is lovely,i spent

over $1100 on a sigma 120 to 400mm lens,and well what a disaster!the

lens had many issues,didnt focus quickly,OS was slow.

I felt it was a "dud" and promptly returned it to retailer,only to be told

this is how it functions,and i wasnt entitled to a full exchange,i have

lost a considerable amount in only one week.Those contemplating buying

any sigma lens,think carefully!,if you own a Nikon,canon,pentax etc and used

it manufatureres lenses,stick to them,dont try and save money on

a "cheaper"lens, otherwise you will end up disappointed,and out of

pocket.

regards Chris

Last edited by hotspur; 31-07-2009 at 06:32 PM. Reason: tittle needed adjustment
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  #2  
Old 23-07-2009, 08:09 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Oh please. Maybe you got a dud, maybe your expectations are unreasonable, maybe you don't know how to use the lens, who knows.

A few things - Canon's prosumer DSLRs are NOT reknowned for fast AF, especially the cheaper ones. The 450D does NOT have fast AF. Nor accurate. I've been using Canon's for 20 years, I have a 1D Mark IIn and D60 (great grand daddy of your 450D) and there is a marked difference in performance between the 2 cameras. The next time you're in Brissie, PM me and I'll be only too happy to meet up and let you have a spin with your lens on my Mark IIn. That'll sort the boys from the girls out I suspect, and might make you feel a bit better about the lens.

A few things - the lens is a slow lens - min. f stop is f4.5. That doesn't let much light in, which means the AF sensor has less to work with. There's a reason why pros pay for super fast pro lenses! You pays for what you get.

Also - Sigma makes some mighty fine lenses. I own a Sigma 150mm f2.8 EX APO Macro lens, and it's a winner. Equals Canon's much more expensive 180mm f3.5 L macro lens imho. Do a bit of reading on the net and you'll find MANY happy Sigma users. My macro mate LordV (Google him) uses a Sigma macro lens (as well as a dedicated 1x-5x Canon MPE-65 unit) and his Sigma images are wonderful. Hell, all his images are.

One final thing - know your consumer rights. If you are not satisfied with the unit, the dealer MUST address it, not fob you off. Get their postal address, send them a letter via registered post (signature required), demanding a response within 14 days or you'll take it to your local Fair Trading.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/3863

Also, for your interest, a review on the lens you bought:

http://www.popphoto.com/Reviews/Lens...-HSM-Lens-Test

I don't mean to belittle you, but I find most people who are new to photography don't know enough to know what's a reasonable expectation, and what isn't.

Dave
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  #3  
Old 23-07-2009, 08:26 PM
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dugnsuz (Doug)
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Re the slow autofocus of the lens...
Try changing the way your DSLR autofocuses - instead of using the 9 point AF function (not sure if the 450D is the same as my 40D?), change to a central single AF point. This means the lens will focus on the object in the centre of your viewfinder not an object on the periphery. This may help - I recently bought a Canon 300mm f4L lens which seemed really soft when I tested it out of the box and found that this method sorted out the problem...when focusing to infinity, the camera/lens would pick a point in the foreground to AF on making the object at infinity very soft!!!

Sorry to hear of your bad experience, especially when you've forked out a wad of cash! But, I think you should take a deep breath and give the lens another go
Hope it works out for you Chris
All the best
Doug
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  #4  
Old 23-07-2009, 08:48 PM
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Octane (Humayun)
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You might want to edit your post.

A guy on another forum recently got taken to the cleaners for defaming a brand name. Especially considering the problem was not with the lens.

It essentially comes down to "you get what you pay for". I had similar issues with a 75-300mm lens, and it was annoying, to say the least.

David is 100% correct in his assertion that the prosumer bodies have superior focus systems, and that an f/4.5-f/5.6 lens is going to struggle with focus on the long end. The resulting images will be soft, especially handheld.

Regards,
Humayun
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Old 23-07-2009, 08:56 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Excellent point Doug re: central focus point. BTW, I also have a 300mm f4 IS L (one of my many lenses) and it is a bit soft too. My fault for not testing it properly when I originally bought it many years ago. The original non IS is a better lens, sharper too btw. Artie Morris (famous bird photography, http://www.birdsasart.com/) does talk highly of both the 300mm f4 non IS and 400mm f5.6.

Thanks Humayun for the kind words :-)

Perhaps Chris got a dud lens, it does happen. I'd like to see the lens in action before judging it. Many retailers do tend to fob you off when you report a problem, rather than provide quality customer service and assist the customer.

One thing I meant to mention in my original post - did you buy from an authorised Australian dealer? From memory, Sigma lenses are distributed by CR Kennedy in Australia. There are many online places that sell Sigma lenses, but they are NOT authorised Australian resellers. They do NOT carry an Australian backed warranty. You are at the MERCY of the retailer when it comes to warranty issues. True, that retailer must provide full warranty as per the Trade Practices Act 1974 legislation, but that won't stop many of them from trying to avoid their obligations.

Good luck, and as I said earlier, the offer stands for trying your new lens out on my Mark IIn. Hell, I'll bring my 70-200 f2.8 along and you can try that on your 450D ;-)

Dave

PS Humayun you have a very nice lens selection I just realised ;-)
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  #6  
Old 23-07-2009, 09:00 PM
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H -

As far as I understand these things, Chris is not going to be sued for offering an opinion on the performance of an item he has purchased.

He's entitled to his opinion, whether it's particularly informed or not.

It constitutes a review.

He'd only be in trouble if he said something along the lines of he'd been deliberately ripped off or accused the company of fraudulent or deceptive behaviour.
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Old 23-07-2009, 09:04 PM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt View Post
H -

As far as I understand these things, Chris is not going to be sued for offering an opinion on the performance of an item he has purchased.

He's entitled to his opinion, whether it's particularly informed or not.

It constitutes a review.

He'd only be in trouble if he said something along the lines of he'd been deliberately ripped off or accused the company of fraudulent or deceptive behaviour.
Agreed, but let's focus on helping Chris out (as best as possible), with his problem.

Dave
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Old 23-07-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpastern View Post
Agreed, but let's focus on helping Chris out (as best as possible), with his problem.

Dave
Indeed...

Just delivering a point of clarification...

And I believe he's been receiving plenty of help through this post. So keep it going, folks
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  #9  
Old 23-07-2009, 09:12 PM
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I've had quite a good run of Sigma lenses myself.. My 10-20 was a little funky.. but thats what I get for not spending the extra $300 on the Canon 10-22 USM..

All the other sigma's I've had,
24-60mm F/2.8 (Canon)
70-200mm F/2.8 (Nikon)
170-500mm F/3.5~5.6 (Canon)
300mm F/2.8 (Nikon)
Have been flawless.. All very fast to focus, the difference in image quality compared to the Canon/Nikon equivalent was barely distinguishable..

I think maybe you were expecting more for your money, or perhaps you placed too much stock in reviews you had read, without going into a store and having a test of the lens in question.. Thats always the best way in my opinion...
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Old 23-07-2009, 09:14 PM
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Although this would appear to be Round 2 of this particular 'vent'

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=47426
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  #11  
Old 23-07-2009, 09:15 PM
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Octane (Humayun)
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Cheers for the clarification, Matt and Dave.

The dude on the other forum did specifically bag/defame the brand, and also bashed the product.

They (the company in question) were probably more concerned with the brand bashing rather than the product review, as it were.

Regards,
Humayun
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  #12  
Old 23-07-2009, 09:17 PM
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h0ughy (David)
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I have a 50-500 sigma lens that I use with my pentax k10D, and a few other sigma lenses. I did do my homework before i bought and they offered me value for money - fully knowing they were slow to focus and could be soft on occasions. but overall many of my photos are taken with sigma lenses, and canon ones as well, but with those all i bought were L lenses.

the overall point is buyer beware, but you do have consumer laws to help protect you with sales and product defect or performance, but you cant legislate laws for preconceived performances
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Old 23-07-2009, 09:21 PM
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My experience with SLR/DSLR is limited to my 400D camera and twin lens kit i got with it. I spent what i could afford to and got the performance i paid for. Still i have used the web to gain information on how to get the best out of the lens's i have.

Also when dealing with warranty returns, its never straightforward. A warranty replacement is not usually given if the product is performing as per specs. While we may 'feel' its not good its not a sufficent to get a replacement on this. You need to make sure you dont come of sounding to the retailer as though it is a change of mind return. I have returned and had replaced many items from Shoes to computer parts, its a matter of approach. It is unfortunate but with some retailers you must be a little tac full in your approach. Might also help to take a friend who really understandts lens well and can explain the problems as problems.
You say
1. Focus is slows, retailer can argue this is a shortcomming of your body rather than the lens. Or this is the normal operation of this lens.
2. OS is slow again the can say its within spec. Or a result of the combination of the 450d body with this lens.

You need to quantify the problem and perhaps request the trial of another lesn in the shop to see if it perfrorms 'quantafiably' better.
Dont leave room for the retailer to think you are simply nit picking or have had a change of mind. Do you research see what others have said about the same lens and body combo and then present case to the retailer.

Working in IT i deal a lot with users who think the problem is with the box, even though you might replace everyithing in it. It is crtical to listen to what the user is saying and seperate the emotions from the facts. People no doubt get very frustrated when there peers and mangers are hounding them for work and there computer just wont cooperate with them. In such situations its very challengint to get the facts, so experiance and research help to seperate fact from fiction.

Often my friends call me first before they go to the shop for warranty repair on ther computers, just to ensure they present the facts to get what they need done. Similarly you need to do your homework, either by calling a friend who knows camera's or by reaching out to people on the forums first before approaching the retailer.


Might i also suggest perhaps you try the lens on a 40D or 50D camera and see if it operates diffrently, surely the place you purchased it from can at the lease permit you to do this test. As others have suggested it may perform better on a pro body.
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Old 24-07-2009, 06:14 AM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Everyone vents from time to time, it's perfectly normal. Hell, glad you guys didn't here my vents about Canon. I presume OS means operational speed?

I note in the original post by Chris, he's made comparison to a Canon 100-400, which I presume is the L variant. That's a lens cost 3-4 times the amount of money, it's a pro grade lens. I haven't used one, but it has a good rep. Not a fair comparison Chris.

Can you please specfically state what you're not happy with, and post an example image so we can see and help you?

Dave
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Old 24-07-2009, 06:22 AM
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Not sure if you already are, but if you're a Canon user I would strongly recommend joining the POTN forum. It's almost a must for learning about your gear, reviews of gear, getting help using it, getting opinions on what lenses to buy etc. Not just lenses - bodies, flash, tripods, other accessories. Also posting images and critiquing for improvement. Very similar setup and use to this wonderful forum, and the mood is most friendly. Can't recommend it highly enough. (Dave, I know your view on POTN is somewhat different, but I'll stand by what I say above for Chris' situation )

Sigma do make great lenses. Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I'll echo the advice of others above.

There are plenty of "dud" Canon lenses out there too, and Tamron, and Tokina.

Whenever I'm contemplating a new lens purchase, I trawl POTN and dpreview for reviews and comments on them. You will get good and bad reviews on anything.

PS - Dave, "OS" is Sigma's equivalent of IS (image stabilisation)
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Old 24-07-2009, 06:26 AM
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iceman (Mike)
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I love my Sigma 17-70mm. Great lens for the price.
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  #17  
Old 24-07-2009, 06:49 AM
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hotspur (Chris)
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re sigma lens

Thank you all who have given some feed back on this issue,

some of it has been quite usefull,

But whats this about me being sued for making the orginal comment??
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Old 24-07-2009, 07:28 AM
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I've answered that...but won't say any more or David will instruct us to get back to your original question!

I hope some of it was "quite usefull" (sic)

Last edited by matt; 24-07-2009 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 24-07-2009, 07:47 AM
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Chris,

I can appreciate your frustration - however . . .

I replied to your earlier posted complaint about the lens and made some suggestions and asked you to submit an image so that we could collectively look at it, by looking at the EXIF info and the image we would be able to determine if there were some basic problems.

However you chose not to do that but rather create a new post with a blanket statement that Sigma lenses are rubbish.

That is utter nonsense.

At no point have you actually described the problem with any particular image.

I along with many 1,000's of others own sigma lenses that perfrom superbly, I also many Pro lenses and lenses of varying IQ.
Some of the Sigmas are equal in many respects to my Pro lenses and some of them are not.
The price differences are enormous and a little research and evaluation will immediately determine which lenses are in which class.
Sigma along with all the major lens manufacturers produces different classes of lenses.

Whilst every lens maker has had examples of lenses that somehow made it through quality control when they shouldn't have and Sigma is no exception, the fact that the dealer has said your lens is not faulty seems to indicate to me that the issues you are describing are either an issue with your perception on how lens should work, lack of experience with this particular lens and lack of experience using lenses with these sorts of longer focal lengths.

If you have closed your eyes to these possibilities then you are quite likely to end up missing out on the photographic opportunities that this lens can provide you. If in fact it is a faulty lens, then you have missed out on the opportunity to more accurately identify its problems and resolve them.

I dont think bagging a lens manufacturer because you have a problem or perceived problem without justification or example is the best way to resolve your issue or the best use of the collective help this forum can provide you.

Rally
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Old 24-07-2009, 11:29 AM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt View Post
I've answered that...but won't say any more or David will instruct us to get back to your original question!

I hope some of it was "quite usefull" (sic)
I was just trying to be a good boy (for once) lol!!!

Dave
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