#21  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:13 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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I don't like the external regulator boxes QHY use, the connectors are crap. But we'll see what the qhy9 is like, I've ordered one.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:29 PM
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Bassnut (Fred)
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I guess you mean power supply?

Sheesh, dont sweat on it, I have an SBIG 12vDC cam field supply, looks good, works very well, but the PCBs inside are mounted by being glued together with lumps of silicon adheasive . (the point being, youll find faults in any purchase, there is nearly always some compromise)

Last edited by Bassnut; 03-12-2009 at 08:46 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2009, 08:08 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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I don't like the external regulator boxes QHY use, the connectors are crap. But we'll see what the qhy9 is like, I've ordered one.
At some point there has to be a voltage regulator somewhere. The imaging part of the camera runs on 18V while the cooling and the fan run at 12V and with a standard input of 12Vthe control must happen somewhere. The power supply/regulator is quite a good idea as it removes quite a bit of electrical noise from the camra itself. It also provides an easy way of replacing the regulaor should it fault and with the loads carried by the camera and cooling being quite high it is the obvious item to fault and if mounted in the electronics of the camera fault of this kindcould be very costly. Heat from the regulator or Tec would also provide extra stresses.
All upnot a bad idea. I actually fixed the problem by silasticing the cable in place( around the outside) It never comes loose again but can removed if needed.

I think you will enjy your purchase. Have fun with it Robin.
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2009, 09:12 PM
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Snip.
As in Pauls case where the only good RC is made by Star Instruments or RCOS, The only good cameras are the most expensive.

Not always true, it depends a lot on the user and his requirements.

Fair enough Doug. Fair enough.. I see your point.

Agreed too Re. the RC's... I bought the first one in Aus and got nothing but negative comments from 90% of the forums, even after I'd produced good images with the scope... and none of the nay sayers had anything to say regarding the images... nor did they have anything to say when Paul posted some of his stunning shots (M16 and Eta Car. come to mind..)
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2009, 09:41 PM
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Bassnut (Fred)
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the only good RC is made by Star Instruments or RCOS, The only good cameras are the most expensive.

Not always true, it depends a lot on the user and his requirements.
What a daft, overused, tired statement. Nobody ever said "the only good" gear was the most expensive. The "best", maybe, (by definition).

As you say, purchases depend on "requirements" (in most, if not all cases, is code for "available funds"). Dont confuse the cost of the "good and appropriate" (depending on requirements), and the "best", which always will be the most expensive, by bleeding obvious logic, it cant be anything else.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:36 PM
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Robin the connectors on my QHY 9 are good (appear different then the 8). I bought both the camera and filter wheel from Theo about 4 months ago (still to use it in anger #$%@ work). The only problem I had in setting it up was my own fault (you need to turn the power on if the camera going to work) and a quick call to Theo (read he talked me through it for about 30 mins on his mobile ) and it was sorted. The camera easily reaches -30 degrees C at about 60% with no sign of fogging up. If you buy the filter wheel as well you only need to connect power to that as it has an out let to which a small cable can be run to the regulator. The filter wheel also plugs directly into the camera so only one USB cable is needed to run the lot. The only thing that has frustrated me is the M54 threads on the filter wheel itself. Makes it a pain to attach OAG's or reducer/flatteners. As Doug has said, well made and you will enjoy using it I am sure.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Tandum View Post
I don't like the external regulator boxes QHY use, the connectors are crap. But we'll see what the qhy9 is like, I've ordered one.
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  #27  
Old 03-12-2009, 10:39 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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What a daft, overused, tired statement. Nobody ever said "the only good" gear was the most expensive. The "best", maybe, (by definition).

As you say, purchases depend on "requirements" (in most, if not all cases, is code for "available funds"). Dont confuse the cost of the "good and appropriate" (depending on requirements), and the "best", which always will be the most expensive, by bleeding obvious logic, it cant be anything else.
G'Day Fred, I don't know about it being an overuse and it seems far from a tired statement.
It seems that a lot seem to think unless the equipment used is brand name equipment of the high end it is sub sandard. It has been stated on many occassions on this and many other forums.
To categorise an instrument as the best by virtue of price or vice versa is a rediculous statement. Two instruments made to the same tolerances etc, etc but costing diferent amounts would not quantify one as being better than the other because one manufacturer works on a lower profit margin and subsequently charges a lower end price.

The perception of many seems to be the best is the most expensive or high end brand name equipment.

What I and alot of other people are getting sick of is the would be experts who are very quick to add there bit about quality etc. when in most cases they either have the most expensive gear sitting in a lounge room on display or lack the skills to use the equipment they have. The comment about just chinese copy or junk seems to spring to mind. In most cases those commenting have no experience with the equpment being discussed and probably wouldn't even take a look at this level of equipment.

By the way, my description of the best is equipment that is used, is affordable and completes the task at hand. With my skill level I doubt my results would be any better using a 20K scope on a 15K mount with a 15K camera up its backside. The only way I will improve much more is to relocate wife, dog and observatory to a location with better seeing conditions. Only so much can be improved with equipment and software.
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  #28  
Old 03-12-2009, 11:16 PM
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Bassnut (Fred)
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I made no comment on Brand and dissagree that a blanket statement "affordable and completes the task at hand" is a measure of absolute "best" (although I agree that could be a measure of "best" for a given purpose).

What I meant by "best", was a simple technical specification of performance, regardless of appropriateness for purpose required.

It would be helpfull in discussions generally, to discuss the price/ performance of gear relative to requirements, not absolute statements like "the only good RC is made by Star Instruments or RCOS, The only good cameras are the most expensive", this is meaningless and irritating.

Generally and inevitably with hi tech gear, the highest specification and reliability demands the highest price. Its the way of things, if a better thing is cheaper, the more expensive same thing dies. This has NOTHING to do with "best price for purpose".
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  #29  
Old 03-12-2009, 11:42 PM
Hagar (Doug)
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I made no comment on Brand and dissagree that a blanket statement "affordable and completes the task at hand" is a measure of absolute "best" (although I agree that could be a measure of "best" for a given purpose).

What I meant by "best", was a simple technical specification of performance, regardless of appropriateness for purpose required.

It would be helpfull in discussions generally, to discuss the price/ performance of gear relative to requirements, not absolute statements like "the only good RC is made by Star Instruments or RCOS, The only good cameras are the most expensive", this is meaningless and irritating.

Generally and inevitably with hi tech gear, the highest specification and reliability demands the highest price. Its the way of things, if a better thing is cheaper, the more expensive same thing dies. This has NOTHING to do with "best price for purpose".

If it's meaningless and irritating don't read it!!!! It was only stated a a general statement whch seems to be applied by many here.

What I meant by "best", was a simple technical specification of performance, regardless of appropriateness for purpose required.

How can you possibly justify a statement like this? If it is not appropriate for the purpose required then it is useless and cannot possibly be the best. To be the best it must be appropriate for the purpose.
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  #30  
Old 04-12-2009, 12:09 AM
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OK, sorry, your right, im getting buried in semantics on reflection thats a daft statement . You know what I mean . Im talking about tech specs that set price. Value is determined by intended purpose.

Ill go away now, im done
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  #31  
Old 04-12-2009, 11:32 PM
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have you guys even thought about Atik 11000 or 4000.? they look the goods from where i see it and with a new dealer just starting to come though with good prices i think they are good bang for buck that would give qhy a run for its money with -40 deg below amb and regulated coming standard. what do you guys think?
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:09 AM
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The Atik cameras until recently have been priced out of the market in Australia.. Even the STL11000M is cheaper than the Atik 11000, and the differences in those two cameras are fairly extreme... With the new dealer bringing cheaper prices, there will be more interest in the Atik cameras in the future. That said, neither the KAI4022 or the KAI11002 sensor are particularly fantastic. the 11k sensor is great, as its a 35mm sensor, however the 9um pixels make it a poor choice for seriously wide field work. It will do the job, as seen by MANY people using that sensor in the FSQ106 etc... They aren't particularly sensitive either...
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:39 AM
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have you guys even thought about Atik 11000 or 4000.? they look the goods from where i see it and with a new dealer just starting to come though with good prices i think they are good bang for buck that would give qhy a run for its money with -40 deg below amb and regulated coming standard. what do you guys think?
Brenden the 9 will go further then that (delta H -50) but it is really not necessary. The Atik cameras are still expensive (last time I looked anyway) for what they offer and given the choice I would pick the new SBIG over it. With the new deals and prices coming over the next month or so on the QHY cameras I think they are going to be pretty hard to beat.

Mark
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:13 AM
dpastern (Dave Pastern)
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Brenden the 9 will go further then that (delta H -50) but it is really not necessary. The Atik cameras are still expensive (last time I looked anyway) for what they offer and given the choice I would pick the new SBIG over it. With the new deals and prices coming over the next month or so on the QHY cameras I think they are going to be pretty hard to beat.

Mark
I'd have to concur. Atik are very expensive, and I couldn't justify buying one of their cameras over a QHY9 or SBIG equivalent (sorry, couldn't remember the model number).

Dave
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:47 AM
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Atik also do not have a great selection of sensors available... the 314 which is rather tiny, the 4020, 4mp square sensor, again, not exactly large, fairly large pixels, not so much suited to wide field applications, not overly sensitive, 11002M good, large, noisy, not overly sensitive despite its large pixels.. they would have a better chance of reaching the market if they had a sony ICX453/413 sensor camera, KAF 8300 or KAF 16803
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2009, 11:54 AM
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Yeah, I know Alex. I initially considered an Atik 10 months ago, but I knew very little about astro gear back then. Now that I know a *little* more (and I stress little), I wouldn't buy an Atik. Much better options out there that are both better performance wise, and also cheaper.

Dave
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  #37  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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The big difference in price centres on the filters and filter wheels and the excellent reputation of SBIG.
Hi Pete,

I think included software has to factor into the equation as well if you are discussing price difference. With the Sbig camera you get CCDsoftV5 which is worth a few hundred dollars in itself, plus TheSkyV5. Of course how much this software is of value to you will depend on what software you intend to use in your setup.
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  #38  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:35 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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Originally Posted by Bassnut View Post
I guess you mean power supply?

Sheesh, dont sweat on it, I have an SBIG 12vDC cam field supply, looks good, works very well, but the PCBs inside are mounted by being glued together with lumps of silicon adheasive . (the point being, youll find faults in any purchase, there is nearly always some compromise)
I think it's the tec regulator, they run a dc cable and an svideo cable between the box and the camera then a usb from the camera. Just increases the tangle. My little starlight is similar except the connectors it uses are more reliable.

There's an interesting thread on the qhy forums saying average pixel level is higher in a qhy9 bias shot than in a dark and they've repeated that in the lab
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  #39  
Old 05-12-2009, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pvelez View Post
I am poised at the edge of the diving board, ready to leap into the unknown.

Both Peter and Theo have been very helpful in answering my questions. The new SBIG 8300 and QHY9 mono cameras use the same chip and have similar specs. They both look like great cameras and I have drooled over them for some time.

The big difference in price centres on the filters and filter wheels and the excellent reputation of SBIG.

I have 2 inch Ha and OIII filters so I'm leaning towards the 2 inch rather than the 36mm filter wheel that SBIG is proposing to introduce.

So my question is simple - is the additional cost of the SBIG set up worth it for me?

I use an 8 inch schmidt newtonian operating at f4. I am in light polluted Sydney only 7 km from the CBD.

I'd appreciate any guidance from you all.

Pete
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Originally Posted by Kal View Post
Hi Pete,

I think included software has to factor into the equation as well if you are discussing price difference. With the Sbig camera you get CCDsoftV5 which is worth a few hundred dollars in itself, plus TheSkyV5. Of course how much this software is of value to you will depend on what software you intend to use in your setup.
Pete,

As Kal wrote, CCDSoft V5 is the camera control software for SBIG ccd cameras. It integrates nicely with The Sky planetarium program. SBIG cameras come with Software Bisque's TheSky v5, Level II which is a “cut” down version compared to my purchased copy of The Sky 6 Professional Edition, so it may have limited or even no integration capabilities???

If you are controlling your mount with a fully functional copy of The Sky and controlling your SBIG camera with CCDSoft, then these two programs can work together and you can e.g. locate and identify asteroids.

After you have captured your image, CCDSoft can launch The Sky and display the field and identify field stars and any known asteroids.

You should also look at how you will use your system re the camera control software and how it integrates with other applications. Are you interested in identifying asteroids? Do you plan to pursue astrometry or photometry?

Here are some screen shots showing the capability of CCDSoft and The Sky 6 Pro Ed, the target being Eris.

Cheers

Dennis
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  #40  
Old 06-12-2009, 05:12 AM
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iceman (Mike)
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Off-topic banter cleaned out of this thread. Please keep it on topic.
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