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  #21  
Old 15-02-2017, 07:25 AM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I have a reasonably powerful green laser built into my mount, wouldn't use it in a fit in Melbourne as it points even remotely towards a flight path over Melbourne.
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  #22  
Old 15-02-2017, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
...would probably classify it as "hand held" immediately.
Problem is also power source - if it is internal, it is No-No.
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  #23  
Old 15-02-2017, 10:47 AM
acotiga (Andrei)
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Originally Posted by bojan View Post
A ball 15cm in diameter... in a box ~20cm cube. Another bulky thingy to carry around.

If I were designing something for that purpose, I would have used specially designed holographic reticle (or transmissive mirrors), to project the mesh/beams on the sky, powered by single laser, and all that fitting into the polar axle.
(now, please don't use this idea, because I have a patent for it).

But as Rally said, it would probably be banned very soon at all astro-gatherings.

Or why not use a design similar to RDF or Telrad (also patented..)?
I don't think there's any need for that. As I said, I love replying to useful inputs, but snarky remarks I don't think will do anyone any good.

I chose this method because the other (use of DOE) is too expensive.

The whole thing is about 130x115x115.

I got it: you don't need this and would hate for others to bring them to a party and ruin your night. Good. If you have any other inputs I'm happy to hear.

The underlying Victoria police issue is a valid point. I'm going to look into it more closely.
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  #24  
Old 15-02-2017, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acotiga View Post
... It's about 150x150mm. Not quite a laser pointer.
Andrei,
I am not trying to put up a fight with you, and I am sorry that my comment you are referring to was perceived as anything else but just matter-of-fact statemented, which was based on your own input (cited above).

As you noticed, I personally don't need and I don't like things like that (especially when charged that much - after all we are just amateurs... but this is just me I suppose).
At the end of the day, everyone is totally entitled to their own opinion anyway ...
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  #25  
Old 15-02-2017, 11:26 AM
acotiga (Andrei)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
Andrei,
I am not trying to put up a fight with you, and I am sorry that my comment you are referring to was perceived as anything else but just matter-of-fact statemented, which was based on your own input (cited above).

As you noticed, I personally don't need and I don't like things like that (especially when charged that much - after all we are just amateurs... but this is just me I suppose).
At the end of the day, everyone is totally entitled to their own opinion anyway ...
No problem, if it's the price, I can easily say that I'm not following any huge financial gain out of it. To prove that I can go through the cost breakdown:
- each laser is 30USD - 90USD to NZD=125$
- plastic alone for printer - 100$. This does not include printer cost per hour.

So you now can judge if 125$ is too much for the few hours I will spend assembling it, sourcing the materials, etc.

The main cost are the lasers, that's because of the required boresight accuracy and the wide temperature operating range.

As you said, a diffractive optics element would have been a better choice, and I agree, but a pattern would be 10000USD plus then the cost of each DOE (about 5). A housing will still be required, etc. It was a common sense commercial decision not to go that route.

As for my patent statement, that's just something I'm proud of. I managed to come up with a system, work out the principles and execute it. I'm sorry if it comes across as arrogant.

I agree that there are a lot of other methods available, including doing a dslr drift. And I've tried a lot of them. This was by far the easiest for me so far, hence my enthusiasm, which is obviously not shared
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  #26  
Old 15-02-2017, 09:54 PM
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Steffen
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You say the device is to be be mounted on a tripod next to the telescope. How close to the scope does it have to be? Would it be practical to set up one and share it between scopes within a 10m radius?
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  #27  
Old 15-02-2017, 10:10 PM
AndrewJ
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Gday Steffen
Quote:
You say the device is to be be mounted on a tripod next to the telescope. How close to the scope does it have to be?
It can be within 20-30m if the beam is strong enough.
We did something similar once where we set a laser in an LX200 finder bracket,and after aligning the mount, pointed it at the SCP,
The laser was easily visible from multiple other nearby mounts. Cant do it anymore tho :-) as the nanny state deems us to be terrorists.

Andrew
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  #28  
Old 16-02-2017, 04:14 AM
acotiga (Andrei)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen View Post
You say the device is to be be mounted on a tripod next to the telescope. How close to the scope does it have to be? Would it be practical to set up one and share it between scopes within a 10m radius?

That's exactly what we did when we aligned an EQ6 and an LX200 at the same time. Up to 40m the beam is still visible. Of course it depends on how dark the sky is. 10mW is stong enough for aligning when there is a bit of moon or late dusk. 5mw would have been too weak for this, making it visible only when there is no moon. 30mW would have been too powerful for anyone to be comfortable with.

I will have it with me this weekend at a star party this weekend where I will use it for everyone to align their scopes. The nice thing is one you set it up (say dusk) on the two reference stars, it can stay there indefinitely and if anyone wants to align later in the evening, you just turn on the SCP laser. An on-off-on switch turns on and off either the two reference lasers or the SCP laser.
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  #29  
Old 16-02-2017, 04:28 AM
croweater (Richard)
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I like the idea Andrei and it would especially suit people that travel to dark skies or have to move their scope to different parts of the yard . I don't think lasers would be problem in small town/ country areas. Bit expensive for me at the moment and I only do visual anyway so I just rough PA. But I like your idea and hope is a success. Cheers, Richard.
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  #30  
Old 21-02-2017, 07:35 PM
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NorthernLight (Max)
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Hi Andrei,

I think it is a pretty cool idea. Often I wondered how to shorten the dreaded setup procedure by using my (legally owned) green laser. Your tool could work out for a number of people, especially in NZ, where lasers are legal and oodles of people do Nightscapes.

A few points of comment from me, since you asked for some:

1. Don't post ideas like that in the advanced Astro imaging section. People who know how to align by using isosolies triangles and how to make holographic reticles surely don't need another thingy to insult their intelligence . The beginner section surely looks different.

2. When the 3rd laser is pointed at the SCP, how do I align the Axis with it, provided I'm not having a pole scope? Using the main scope assumes that it sits dead straight on the mount and I think an eyepiece with reticule would be in order. Is that the idea?

3. Not sure where Bojan had the price point of $350 from but for that kind of money one can import a Polemaster from HK, which doesn't require a tripod and fits in a jacket pocket. Yes, you need a laptop for that.

4. What's the target group like? I have been doing a lot of low-medium power visual without polar alignment- just point the thing south and adjust the knobs every now and then. For AP it wouldn't be accurate enough and besides, people spending $2k plus on a mount usually either get a pole scope and some sort of inbuilt software routine or do advanced dark magic (I.e. Plate solving)

5. I could see applications for users of tracking mounts without pole scope, especially for nightscape photography.

Good luck with it!

Cheers,
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  #31  
Old 21-02-2017, 10:21 PM
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Why all the fuss?
I just use the simple camera technique -
turning star trails from a V shape into a line.
( pressing West then East on x 1 speed for 20 to 40 seconds )
It takes only a few minutes if you pre-align with a compass.

cheers
Allan
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  #32  
Old 22-02-2017, 11:50 AM
acotiga (Andrei)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLight View Post
Hi Andrei,

I think it is a pretty cool idea. Often I wondered how to shorten the dreaded setup procedure by using my (legally owned) green laser. Your tool could work out for a number of people, especially in NZ, where lasers are legal and oodles of people do Nightscapes.

A few points of comment from me, since you asked for some:

1. Don't post ideas like that in the advanced Astro imaging section. People who know how to align by using isosolies triangles and how to make holographic reticles surely don't need another thingy to insult their intelligence . The beginner section surely looks different.

2. When the 3rd laser is pointed at the SCP, how do I align the Axis with it, provided I'm not having a pole scope? Using the main scope assumes that it sits dead straight on the mount and I think an eyepiece with reticule would be in order. Is that the idea?

3. Not sure where Bojan had the price point of $350 from but for that kind of money one can import a Polemaster from HK, which doesn't require a tripod and fits in a jacket pocket. Yes, you need a laptop for that.

4. What's the target group like? I have been doing a lot of low-medium power visual without polar alignment- just point the thing south and adjust the knobs every now and then. For AP it wouldn't be accurate enough and besides, people spending $2k plus on a mount usually either get a pole scope and some sort of inbuilt software routine or do advanced dark magic (I.e. Plate solving)

5. I could see applications for users of tracking mounts without pole scope, especially for nightscape photography.

Good luck with it!

Cheers,
Thanks for your input. Indeed, in hindsight, the advanced section was not probably the best section, but I went for it out of habit

Without a polar scope it is a bit more complicated but can be done. The key is that when looking at the pole (i.e. laser beam), a rotation in RA will have the stars rotate around the centre of the FOV (laser) rather than translate. That's when 90 DEC is spot on.

The target group...that's a good question. At the moment, I'm trying to eliminate PEC in my EQ6 and when that's done I'm pretty certain that one may take pictures anywhere across the sky without the need for for a guider on a 1000 focal scope. I don't know about other's, but I'm quite excited about setting up an EQ6 with a say 120ED, PA in 3 minutes, do a 3 star alignment and then start taking pictures. No laptops, no guidestars, no calibration. It would basically require a 2.5arcmin polar alignment error, which is achievable. This weekend is supposed to be clear so I'll come back next week with a result of this.

Also, the device started as my own personal project into trying to sort out a reliable and quick way aligning a barn door, but a Skywatcher adventurer would work as well.
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  #33  
Old 22-02-2017, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLight View Post
....
3. Not sure where Bojan had the price point of $350 from ...
It's on the webpage.
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  #34  
Old 23-02-2017, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
Why all the fuss?
I just use the simple camera technique -
turning star trails from a V shape into a line.
( pressing West then East on x 1 speed for 20 to 40 seconds )
It takes only a few minutes if you pre-align with a compass.

cheers
Allan


A reader asked me to clarify - so here's a link:

http://www.observatory.digital-sf.co...nt_CCDv1-1.pdf

But of course for our latitude in Australia we point North not South.

cheers
Allan
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