Mounting an investment

[Atmos (Colin)]

Just starting to look into investing into one of my last purchases. Bought a second (fourth) hand EQ6 some 9 months ago as an interim mount until I could afford to upgrade. I have narrowed it all down to 3/4 mounts, the fourth being a recent ring in

I am thinking of this as an investment of sorts, I am eventually planning on putting it into an observatory but that won't be for another 18-24 months when I buy my first house, need to wait until mid next year for business reasons. So I am looking at a high quality mount that I'll be setting up and pulling down for the next couple of years, get pretty quick at it after a while so that isn't an issue for me.

At the moment my list is as follows, in no particular order:
~ The ex-display EQ8 that Bintel are selling.
~ ASA DDM 60
~ Paramount MyT
~ 10Micron GM1000

The EQ8 is a ring in, not one that I had previously considered mostly due to the weight of the components, it has a 50kg capacity which although leaving room for bigger upgrades in the future, each bit is 25-30kg and I think it'll become tiresome moving around.... The price is however very enticing

What I like about the MyT is that Bisque is a very tried reliable company, fantastic customer service from what I am aware and designed to integrate with TSX.

Is it worthwhile spending that bit extra and getting encoders? If so, the GM1000 would be the next logical step, has an RMS of ~0.7", backlash free and fantastic tracking and pointing accuracy. Of the three it is currently the only one that can be used without a computer, not at the top of my list though as I don't see myself using it often without a computer anyway.

The harder question for most is whether spending that bit extra and also going direct drive is worth the upgrade. I remember someone a which back mentioning that during a discussion with someone from iTelescope.net, they mentioned that direct drive is the shizzle... May not those exact words sadly With an RMS of ~0.3" it has immaculate tracking accuracy.

I am at that stage where I don't mind spending that bit extra and going all out. Upgrade wise, unless I get SERIOUS aperture fever I probably won't venture past the 250mm size so all three will have no problems with weight, would probably get a BabyQ over going bigger first anyway!

Looking for the wisdom of those that have had various mounts, although most of the members on here have likely never used any direct drive mount (not that there are a lot of them out there at this stage) but I suppose the first question is whether having absolute encoders really makes that much of a difference. Theoretically they should make a massive improvement but in practice nothing seems to go the whole way

[Somnium (Aidan)]

i will put my 1.5 cents worth to say that i have been extremely impressed with my Paramount MX. the integration the TSX, protrack and T-Point mean that the pointing accuracy is unbelievable. tracking is also fantastic, and from what i understand, the rough polar alignment routine is really quick and accurate.

[codemonkey (Lee)]

The only one of those I've used is an EQ8 and I wouldn't recommend it to you . It's not bad per se, but it's not in the same league as the other mounts you've listed. Consider it a "big EQ6." Basically I think the EQ8 is a good choice if you're happy for that chinese build quality and need to support a bigger payload than the EQ6 will support, but don't want to spend much, or any more than the EQ8 costs.

If you need to support a big payload, the Mesu 200 might be worth a look. An interesting friction drive mount that could support "a motorbike with a sidecar" as I saw someone recently say.

I've given up on my EQ6 and will be ordering an Avalon Linear some time in the near future. I'd love a 10 Micron or an Astrophysics, but alas the budget won't stretch quite that far.

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by codemonkey

............
I've given up on my EQ6 and will be ordering an Avalon Linear some time in the near future. I'd love a 10 Micron or an Astrophysics, but alas the budget won't stretch quite that far.

Hmmm, very interesting .

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Well thats an interesting list.
I dont hear much about the EQ8, Lees comment is interesting...
ASA DDM, some reviews on the net are good, but I wouldnt trust them, some members here (and others) have horror stories on support and build quality generally.
Paramount MyT. That would be my pick. I have a PME, a trouble free work horse. As Aidan says, SB has been around for a long time and software integration is best of class.
10 micron is interesting, havent heard of them. On a bit of googling looks pretty good, do you want to be 1st test bunny in OZ?, your risk.

Yes, direct drive and output encoders are the ducks guts, itelescope has several CDK Ascension 200hrs and love them, but they are US$24k odd, a bit more than the others you mention.

Unless you want flawless remote non-guided imageing, direct drive and output encoders are a bit over the top IMO.

[Slawomir (Suavi)]

A good thing about Avalon Linear, for current owners of an EQ6 mount that is, is that it can be mounted on a standard EQ6 tripod: http://www.astronomyshed.co.uk/forum...p?f=78&t=21252

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by glend

Hmmm, very interesting .

Anything in particular I can shed some light on?

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Well thats an interesting list.
I dont hear much about the EQ8, Lees comment is interesting...
ASA DDM, some reviews on the net are good, but I wouldnt trust them, some members here (and others) have horror stories on support and build quality generally.

Ah, that's interesting. I haven't spoke to anyone with an ASA mount, that's a shame, they seemed like they had a lot of potential, and given the price I'd hoped they'd pull it off.

You can probably take my comment about the EQ8 with a grain of salt really, it's the closest thing to a premium mount that I've owned. I honestly just felt like it was a big EQ6 though, which is why I sold it: I didn't think it did much that the EQ6 didn't do, if I didn't want a big payload, which I didn't.

Originally Posted by Slawomir

A good thing about Avalon Linear, for current owners of an EQ6 mount that is, is that it can be mounted on a standard EQ6 tripod: http://www.astronomyshed.co.uk/forum...p?f=78&t=21252

Yeah, that's very handy for me. As far as I can tell, they've addressed every issue I had with the EQ6: worm gear requiring significant tweaking to get the mesh right is now gone, no backlash (!!), the altitude adjustment is now apparently very smooth, the retractable counterweight shaft that's prone to flex is gone, even the home markings line up directly so it's easier to tell when you've got it in the correct position.

I'm sure I'll find some fault with it after I get it, but I'm yet to hear a bad report and from a distance it looks great for my needs.

[billdan (Bill)]

The two mounts I have been keeping an eye on from Europe ( in case any second hand ones come along). Both are friction drive (no PE Error) with encoders on both axis.

The fore mentioned Mesu 200, can lift 100Kgs and is accurate to 0.5 arcsec (guided) and costs $AUS 9K plus freight, also EQ6 tripod compatible.

Also the Gemini G35F can lift 45Kg with the same accuracy and costs $AUS 8K plus freight.

Of course there are other criteria to make a decision on besides weight and accuracy e.g. ease of use, tech support, user base, avail of spare parts etc.

My 2 cents

Bill

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by Somnium

i will put my 1.5 cents worth to say that i have been extremely impressed with my Paramount MX. the integration the TSX, protrack and T-Point mean that the pointing accuracy is unbelievable. tracking is also fantastic, and from what i understand, the rough polar alignment routine is really quick and accurate.

I use TSX a lot with my EQ6, I can imagine that any Paramount mount would really shine using it, being made for it and all!

Originally Posted by codemonkey

The only one of those I've used is an EQ8 and I wouldn't recommend it to you . It's not bad per se, but it's not in the same league as the other mounts you've listed. Consider it a "big EQ6." Basically I think the EQ8 is a good choice if you're happy for that chinese build quality and need to support a bigger payload than the EQ6 will support, but don't want to spend much, or any more than the EQ8 costs.

If you need to support a big payload, the Mesu 200 might be worth a look. An interesting friction drive mount that could support "a motorbike with a sidecar" as I saw someone recently say.

I've given up on my EQ6 and will be ordering an Avalon Linear some time in the near future. I'd love a 10 Micron or an Astrophysics, but alas the budget won't stretch quite that far.

Shiraz gets amazing results with his EQ8, not exactly the most portable of mounts however

I had heard of the Mesu 200 but I always assumed (hadn't ever looked it up) that is was a Takahashi mount, very interesting design, not one that I had heard of before. It doesn't look like there is anything of it but it appears like it could work well, guess I'll have to do a little digging.

I hadn't heard of the Avalon Linear but it looks pretty good, apparently has better PE than both AP and Bisque at 5-6", could be a winner!

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Well thats an interesting list.
I dont hear much about the EQ8, Lees comment is interesting...
ASA DDM, some reviews on the net are good, but I wouldnt trust them, some members here (and others) have horror stories on support and build quality generally.
Paramount MyT. That would be my pick. I have a PME, a trouble free work horse. As Aidan says, SB has been around for a long time and software integration is best of class.
10 micron is interesting, havent heard of them. On a bit of googling looks pretty good, do you want to be 1st test bunny in OZ?, your risk.

Yes, direct drive and output encoders are the ducks guts, itelescope has several CDK Ascension 200hrs and love them, but they are US$24k odd, a bit more than the others you mention.

Unless you want flawless remote non-guided imageing, direct drive and output encoders are a bit over the top IMO.

With the ASA, most of the poorer reviews that I have read about them seem to be back from ~2012 when the mount was a lot newer. Unlike Bisque, I know their documentation is HORRIBLE or just non-existant where most of the information comes from the forums. They are releasing a new DDM 60 sometime within the next 2 months, it was announced later last year but there hasn't been any updates on that of late. If I was to go down the ASA path it would be after the release of the new one, see whether the current one falls in price

Many of the ASA Vs 10Micron threads that I have read most seem to say that 10Micron is better because its products have been around longer but I think ASA just had some teething issues in their early days (a few years ago). I must admit, I do like the idea of not having to worry about guide stars or high level thin cloud causing all kinds of guider tracking errors

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by billdan

Also the Gemini G35F can lift 45Kg with the same accuracy and costs $AUS 8K plus freight.

Oh damn, why have I not heard of this mount before? Now you've given me something to think about....

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Shiraz gets amazing results with his EQ8, not exactly the most portable of mounts however

I had heard of the Mesu 200 but I always assumed (hadn't ever looked it up) that is was a Takahashi mount, very interesting design, not one that I had heard of before. It doesn't look like there is anything of it but it appears like it could work well, guess I'll have to do a little digging.

I hadn't heard of the Avalon Linear but it looks pretty good, apparently has better PE than both AP and Bisque at 5-6", could be a winner!

You can absolutely get good results with the EQ8, I don't want to imply otherwise, it's just not a premium mount, and if I had the money for a 10 Micron it wouldn't get a look-in. I'm probably being unfair on it really. It is better than the EQ6, truly.

I'm not sure I'd be looking at an Avalon Linear if I had that kind of budget either.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by codemonkey

You can absolutely get good results with the EQ8, I don't want to imply otherwise, it's just not a premium mount, and if I had the money for a 10 Micron it wouldn't get a look-in. I'm probably being unfair on it really. It is better than the EQ6, truly.

I'm not sure I'd be looking at an Avalon Linear if I had that kind of budget either.

I am single at the moment so I don't have SHMBO looking over my shoulder I gotta get in before the leash it attached forever

[codemonkey (Lee)]

haha. Absolutely right. Go for it. My money's on the 10 micron if you have the budget.

[glend (Glen)]

Lee where would you buy the Avalon from? You have to import it right? Can you buy just the head, it seems it will fit on my NEQ6 tripod and pier - that's good. Price to you?

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Yeah, I'll likely get mine from Teleskop Express since I've had some minor dealings with them in the past.

Hard to give an exact figure on the price with fluctuating currency, and I'm not sure if UPS will charge anything extra by doing the customs clearance as well.

You can definitely buy it without the tripod, that's what I'll be doing. I'll need to buy an additional counterweight, since it only comes with one 6kg weight. They're out of stock on the Avalon counterweights right now but Baader make one to fit 10 Microns that also should fit these (30mm shaft). If I get an extra 3kg counterweight instead of a 5kg, freight will cost 190eur instead of 255. And 9kg should do me ok.

So, assuming no extras from UPS customs clearance (kinda expecting a fee here, but I can't find mention of it), I'll be looking at:

Mount, inc 6kg counterweight: 3974.79eur
Extra counterweight: 79.83eur
Freight: 190eur
Duty: 0.05 * (3974.79 + 79.83 + 190) = 212.231
GST: 0.1 * (3974.79 + 79.83 + 190 + 212.231) = 445.6851
Total 4,902.5361eur = ~ $7,660AUD based on current exchange rates.

So close to the premium mounts, yet so far away. Is the mount worth it? Hard to say. I've had enough of losing time tweaking various bits of hardware, the EQ6 being a big part of that, so if it gives me consistent results I'll be happy.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by codemonkey

So close to the premium mounts, yet so far away. Is the mount worth it? Hard to say. I've had enough of losing time tweaking various bits of hardware, the EQ6 being a big part of that, so if it gives me consistent results I'll be happy.

Hence, I don't mind going all out and getting something that I'll be happy with for a long time.

[Slawomir (Suavi)]

Originally Posted by codemonkey

So, assuming no extras from UPS customs clearance (kinda expecting a fee here, but I can't find mention of it), I'll be looking at:

Mount, inc 6kg counterweight: 3974.79eur
Extra counterweight: 79.83eur
Freight: 190eur
Duty: 0.05 * (3974.79 + 79.83 + 190) = 212.231
GST: 0.1 * (3974.79 + 79.83 + 190 + 212.231) = 445.6851
Total 4,902.5361eur = ~ $7,660AUD based on current exchange rates.

I think you will also need an adapter plate between the mount head and the tripod (about 150euro).

Still, a few k$ cheaper than MYT and Mach1...BTW, recently I have been consistently getting total tracking error under 0.40" with my AZEQ6 - finding the right balance seems to have done the trick

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Hence, I don't mind going all out and getting something that I'll be happy with for a long time.

Good plan; nothing more frustrating than a dodgy mount, so definitely by the best you can.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Colin.

Originally Posted by Slawomir

I think you will also need an adapter plate between the mount head and the tripod (about 150euro).

Still, a few k$ cheaper than MYT and Mach1...BTW, recently I have been consistently getting total tracking error under 0.40" with my AZEQ6 - finding the right balance seems to have done the trick

PM sent.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by Slawomir

I think you will also need an adapter plate between the mount head and the tripod (about 150euro).

Still, a few k$ cheaper than MYT and Mach1...BTW, recently I have been consistently getting total tracking error under 0.40" with my AZEQ6 - finding the right balance seems to have done the trick

Tonight is the first chance I have had to take my EQ6 outside after I stripped it down and regreased everything, watched it for a bit and was getting 0.45 in RA. Tomorrow I am going to have to redo the DEC axis as I have a fair bit of backlash. I didn't think it was as bad as it was until PHD took something like 100 steps to clear it!

Originally Posted by codemonkey

Sorry for hijacking your thread Colin.

All good

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Tonight is the first chance I have had to take my EQ6 outside after I stripped it down and regreased everything, watched it for a bit and was getting 0.45 in RA. Tomorrow I am going to have to redo the DEC axis as I have a fair bit of backlash. I didn't think it was as bad as it was until PHD took something like 100 steps to clear it!

Whoa! I considered mine unusably bad when I was getting 15-20 steps to clear it. When I got mine down to 4-5 then I could guide in both directions without it affecting the guiding too badly. Of course it's commonly recommended that you only guide in one direction, but I was never completely happy with that since the drift would change over time and there was always the odd anomaly that needed correcting.

I always found guiding in RA was much better closer to the pole than the equator. I read somewhere it's due to periodic error having less of an impact closer to the poles, though I don't understand the mechanics of that. I'd get around 0.5 close to the pole, but more like 0.6-0.8 close to the equator.