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  #1  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:25 PM
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Paul Haese
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From Ford to Ferrari; I hope

As some of you know I have been using a GSO12 f4 Newtonian for the last 8 months or so. I am still trying to sort problems with stability and have nearly narrowed down all the problems but I am convinced I will need to do a rebuild of the secondary cage and spider eventually. That will take some time and might mean months of not being able to image.

Having grown tired of being a beta tester, I have over the weekend expended a significant sum of money on one of these. My thinking here is that these systems are mature and likely to produce the results I am after from the time I place the scope on the mount.

I ordered it with 1/10 PV Optics, Atlas Kit, CNC supporting rings, an adapter to fit with the QSI683 and the Wynne corrector.

I guess the wait will be quite long. Chris Venter and Mike Sidonio waited 6-7 months for their scopes to arrive. I hope it will be shorter than that.

Time appears to have come to a stand still now. Is there a way of moving forward quickly yet?
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  #2  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:48 PM
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I wish I'd known you were interested, Paul. I have one sitting at home that's not seen starlight yet. I ordered it and while I was waiting for it to arrive the Ceravolo 300 came up for sale...

Hope your wait isn't too long.

Cheers,
Rick.
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  #3  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:48 PM
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LewisM
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Paul, did you read of the horror stories with Orion UK that have been happening in the past couple of years???? Myastroshop here in Aus dropped them completely as they refused to work on a VERY sub-standard scope. Various interferometry sites on the web are reporting Strehls of as low as 0.5...to the point they cannot even measure a reading on them because of the "swept polish".

http://www.ssmassey.com/reviews/ODK10-review.htm

Can you withdraw? Is it worth it to take a crap-shoot?
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  #4  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post
I wish I'd known you were interested, Paul. I have one sitting at home that's not seen starlight yet. I ordered it and while I was waiting for it to arrive the Ceravolo 300 came up for sale...

Hope your wait isn't too long.

Cheers,
Rick.
I wish I had known that four days ago Rick. So you don't know what the mirror is like?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM View Post
Paul, did you read of the horror stories with Orion UK that have been happening in the past couple of years???? Myastroshop here in Aus dropped them completely as they refused to work on a VERY sub-standard scope. Various interferometry sites on the web are reporting Strehls of as low as 0.5...to the point they cannot even measure a reading on them because of the "swept polish".

http://www.ssmassey.com/reviews/ODK10-review.htm

Can you withdraw? Is it worth it to take a crap-shoot?
Yeah I have seen the reviews Lewis, it seems nearly all but a few are the ODK series which is a much more complicated figure than a Newtonian, but I get the point.

I doubt I can pull out given that I have paid the entire amount already. Perhaps a mistake but time will tell.

I have had a conversation with Sara Wager about her experience and she said it was good and the optics were fine. We know that Mike has a good scope so that is another good review.

I have sent them an email discussing my concerns regarding the figure of the optics and asking them to comment about the poor reviews in recent years. Their attitude and responses will dictate which way I go from there. I really want this to be a good decision. I have had a couple of bad experiences in the last few years and would not want to see another one occur.
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  #5  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:46 PM
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RickS (Rick)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Haese View Post
I wish I had known that four days ago Rick. So you don't know what the mirror is like?
No idea, I'm afraid. The original mirror that shipped with the scope arrived broken and they sent me a replacement. The scope is assembled and I have played with collimation, but haven't managed to get it on the mount yet. Will do it one of these days...

Cheers,
Rick.
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  #6  
Old 17-04-2018, 01:46 PM
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SimmoW (SIMON)
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Onya for giving them a go Paul. But I too have heard confidential horror stories from an industry insider. I would strongly encourage you to get an independent optical test done over there before shipping.

But with your rep, I'm guessing they'll do a good job for you
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  #7  
Old 17-04-2018, 01:52 PM
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h0ughy (David)
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You're a brave man, I heard a lot about the lack of quality and finish with these scopes. I do wish you well, the 2 people I knew that got one had several issues with them, from flexible tube and focser movement to the Optics being pinched. I hope you get better service and finish
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  #8  
Old 17-04-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy View Post
You're a brave man, I heard a lot about the lack of quality and finish with these scopes. I do wish you well, the 2 people I knew that got one had several issues with them, from flexible tube and focser movement to the Optics being pinched. I hope you get better service and finish
Agreed. I know of another FORMER owner of one of the Newtonians, and he could not get rid of it fast enough. A myriad of errors and issues that OOUK refused to deal with.

I guess Mike got lucky - maybe he strong-armed them into sending their best
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  #9  
Old 17-04-2018, 02:28 PM
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Lognic04 (Logan)
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From ford to trash bin?
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  #10  
Old 17-04-2018, 03:29 PM
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LewisM
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From ford to trash bin?
Logan, don't be judgemental my young padawan.

I think Paul assessed the risks before committing the cash, so time and testing will tell. My only major concern is the recourse Paul has should it be - unfortunately - yet another OOUK FUBAR.
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  #11  
Old 17-04-2018, 04:16 PM
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Hi Paul,
I hope you do well with that new scope.
Newts. seem to be back in fashion.
On axis they give tiny spot sizes & they're fast compared to RCs.
I think the best ones in the world and also the most expensive are here:
http://www.dreamscopes.com/pages/pro...t-astro-16.htm

Lightweight sandwich mirrors with computer designed mirror holders,
carbon fiber everywhere - premium everything.


cheers
Allan
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  #12  
Old 17-04-2018, 06:16 PM
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Paul Haese
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimmoW View Post
Onya for giving them a go Paul. But I too have heard confidential horror stories from an industry insider. I would strongly encourage you to get an independent optical test done over there before shipping.

But with your rep, I'm guessing they'll do a good job for you
Yeah the horror stories are concerning for sure. I doubt my reputation in Australia will help me much with this purchase but I did mention to them that I had read lots of bad reviews and would certainly write a good review should the telescope be good. I guess time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy View Post
You're a brave man, I heard a lot about the lack of quality and finish with these scopes. I do wish you well, the 2 people I knew that got one had several issues with them, from flexible tube and focser movement to the Optics being pinched. I hope you get better service and finish

Kahoonas of steel, there are several people I know that have good scopes from these guys but bad ones means there might be a problem there. Pinched optics can be fixed. I don't expect any focusor movement as I got the upgrade to the tube and focusor rings. Tube flex should also be minimised. The service and finish are concerning but the real problem will be the figure. It that happens I'll just send back the mirror on its own back to them and demand an independent assessment before they return it. Then I'll find out what the service is like. So far the service has been good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM View Post
Agreed. I know of another FORMER owner of one of the Newtonians, and he could not get rid of it fast enough. A myriad of errors and issues that OOUK refused to deal with.

I guess Mike got lucky - maybe he strong-armed them into sending their best
Mike might have got lucky, but I think a few bad eggs is sometime enough to spoil a reputation. Feel free to email me details of the errors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM View Post
Logan, don't be judgemental my young padawan.

I think Paul assessed the risks before committing the cash, so time and testing will tell. My only major concern is the recourse Paul has should it be - unfortunately - yet another OOUK FUBAR.
To be honest it is a gamble with a lot of cash as is everything when buying astro gear. The exchange rate is stupid here but I expect that I will get a good scope. Recourse will be problematic with dealing directly with them. If they refuse to fix their problem I will get someone to refigure it here if there is a problem. Or I'll find another solution. It's all water yet to go before the bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
Hi Paul,
I hope you do well with that new scope.
Newts. seem to be back in fashion.
On axis they give tiny spot sizes & they're fast compared to RCs.
I think the best ones in the world and also the most expensive are here:
http://www.dreamscopes.com/pages/pro...t-astro-16.htm

Lightweight sandwich mirrors with computer designed mirror holders,
carbon fiber everywhere - premium everything.


cheers
Allan

Nice Allan, but who has 33K USD to just dump down on a 16" scope at present? Certainly a dream scope, but not within my reach.

I always swore I would never have another Newtonian after the ones I had in the 1980's-1990's, but sometimes you have to reassess things. Star sizes, imaging speed, image scale and many other things are better now and so the possibilities are greater.

The good news is that I have been told between 4-6 weeks from now shipping will occur. I suppose I'll find out soon enough if this promise is to be kept. Fingers crossed.
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  #13  
Old 17-04-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Haese View Post

Nice Allan, but who has 33K USD to just dump down on a 16" scope at present? Certainly a dream scope, but not within my reach.

I always swore I would never have another Newtonian after the ones I had in the 1980's-1990's, but sometimes you have to reassess things. Star sizes, imaging speed, image scale and many other things are better now and so the possibilities are greater.

The good news is that I have been told between 4-6 weeks from now shipping will occur. I suppose I'll find out soon enough if this promise is to be kept. Fingers crossed.

Hi Paul,
Not many people would spend that much on a Newt. but
it shows that you're on right track.
You'd probably need sub arc second seeing for there
to be any difference compared with that Dream scope.
I think there was one of those being used in Namibia.

cheers
Allan
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  #14  
Old 17-04-2018, 07:43 PM
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Oh Jessuswepped....I wish you well with it Paul, as my experience with Orion UK has made me very wary of them.

One poor soul (and now friend) after having parted with thr best part of $A20k was delivered an
AG12 from the then local dealer that had astigmatic optics. The dealer obfuscation was breathtaking, as they KNEW of other similar cases and still sold the instrument. The local dealer lost their dealership, and with constant stalling from Orion, the telescope went out of warranty.

At the owners expense the telescope went back to the UK for “repair”..and on landing there was subject to VAT until it was re-exported. We are taking about $7000 for a problem not created by the customer! All this should have been at Orion’s expense.

For your sake, I really hope you get some reasonable optics, as in my opinion Orion UK are so low, they’d have to free-fall out of a snake’s bum before they would have to pull the chute.
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  #15  
Old 17-04-2018, 08:34 PM
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LewisM
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I think it time to recommission the good old RC Paul. Or has that been sold?

I'd be calling for a refund - I have been reading more and more issues on the web from Stargazers Lounge to CN.
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  #16  
Old 17-04-2018, 09:46 PM
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Reading all these replies here, I hope you get a scope you are satisfied with Paul! and look forward to your thoughts when you get it.
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  #17  
Old 17-04-2018, 10:06 PM
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HI Paul - although ASA now do their own mirrors, they used to use OOUK, and I heard a similar swag of horror stories about ASA while waiting 2 years for mine. Although they're undoubtedly true, you don't hear so much noise from satisfied customers, so I figured the odds were in my favour and they were. I got (eventually!) a nice scope with great optics, and odds are you will too. Unfortunately, for the price we pay it shouldn't be a crap-shoot though!
I think you will get the same 3" Wynne corrector - at least you can be satisfied that it's the best in the business.
cheers,
Andrew.
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  #18  
Old 18-04-2018, 09:47 AM
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Orion UK mirrors have done very well in the past . Some users here on IIS are happy (Michael Sidonio, John Hothersall come to mind) and the mirrors tested by Wolfgang Rohr were good
( http://r2.astro-foren.com/index.php/...rwandte-fragen )
- Rohr's translated comment on one was: "They are high quality mirrors and worth their money - even if they do not have a Zygo certificate. And if this mirror is
properly adjusted in the system, well cooled, and also causes the catch mirror no annoyance, if finally the seeing allows all wishes, then this mirror should allow very high-contrast observations."
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  #19  
Old 19-04-2018, 04:14 PM
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Weird, the forum will not quote Peter's comments.

Just to respond, I have a small contingency plan in place if the mirror does not come up to spec. I have spent a fair bit of time talking to them about my concerns and they have made promises. If their promises don't come through I'll use my contingency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisM View Post
I think it time to recommission the good old RC Paul. Or has that been sold?

I'd be calling for a refund - I have been reading more and more issues on the web from Stargazers Lounge to CN.
No the RC is undergoing commissioning in the other observatory at present. Still some fine tuning to be completed but all works under automation, so stand by for some new images.

I have sent emails to various people who have dealt with them recently and received a good scope. I have read quite a few complaints but law of averages says I will get something reasonable. I think it is worth continuing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alocky View Post
HI Paul - although ASA now do their own mirrors, they used to use OOUK, and I heard a similar swag of horror stories about ASA while waiting 2 years for mine. Although they're undoubtedly true, you don't hear so much noise from satisfied customers, so I figured the odds were in my favour and they were. I got (eventually!) a nice scope with great optics, and odds are you will too. Unfortunately, for the price we pay it shouldn't be a crap-shoot though!
I think you will get the same 3" Wynne corrector - at least you can be satisfied that it's the best in the business.
cheers,
Andrew.
This is my thinking too Andrew. I have seen great images coming out of Chile with a scope that was delivered only a bit over a year ago. And; I think you are correct about the Wynne corrector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiraz View Post
Orion UK mirrors have done very well in the past . Some users here on IIS are happy (Michael Sidonio, John Hothersall come to mind) and the mirrors tested by Wolfgang Rohr were good
( http://r2.astro-foren.com/index.php/...rwandte-fragen )
- Rohr's translated comment on one was: "They are high quality mirrors and worth their money - even if they do not have a Zygo certificate. And if this mirror is
properly adjusted in the system, well cooled, and also causes the catch mirror no annoyance, if finally the seeing allows all wishes, then this mirror should allow very high-contrast observations."
I read through those reviews, just further evidence of the possibilities. Thanks for that Ray.
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  #20  
Old 19-04-2018, 04:31 PM
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LewisM
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As a wise man once said “May the Force be with you”.

Going to be very interesting one way or the other. I really hope it’s a corker!
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