There's asteroid occultation chasing and timing. You can use very modest gear for this, just need a dob at least, and an astro video camera. All MUCH less than £15k.
It's what floats my boat, so nothing Saintly about it. The way I think about the blasted weather though, there is DEFINITELY NOTHING holy about my thoughts...
Have we reached the end of amateurs can contribute to Astronomy ?
Yes, and as a result of several things.
- useful measurements that can be done with basic gear (telescope, clock and eyeball) are now vanishingly few and possibly none;
- anything else has become a technological arms race ($$$$$), if you ain’t got the gear you aren’t in the race;
- the advent of the internet means the rapid dissemination of news is great, but it also means many others will pile onto anything you could consider, better equipped, with more observing time;
- increasing population growth and light pollution mean that for most a dark sky site is all but impossible unless you are retired to a dark location - or move internationally to escape the light (UK, Europe and US);
I don't agree. I am an amateur with modest equipment but am involved with pro-am collaborations in spectroscopy. I have my name on 5 refereed journal articles last year and hope that this will continue.
You can continue to contribute in areas that require data that is difficult or expensive for pro observatories to obtain.
I just received a copy of The Sky is your laboratory which has a number of projects amateurs can try out.
One of the interesting comments in the book was around asteroid hunting. ( I want that job title on LinkedIn David, Asteroid Hunter).
Wavy,s dead right, with large scale professional surveys on the go with state of the art kit, odds are stuff has all been found, but having said that, you can find out where the pro stuff has been surveying in the last few days and make sure you aren’t covering old ground which for example for asteroid hunting is extremely helpful.(Minor Planet Centre)
But the question from the OP talks to contribution as well as discovery
Here’s the Index of projects amateurs could to contribute to.
Meteor studies
Visual counts
Characterisation of minor meteor showers
Sporadic meteors and undiscovered showers
Occultation
Lunar
Grazing lunar
Asteroid
Variable star observations
Photometry
Variable stars
Asteroid lightcurves
Extra solar planet transits
BVR photometry
Asteroid phase curves
Astrometry
Asteroid astrometry
Separation and position angle of binary stars
Lunar meteor impacts
Asteroid hunting and discovery
Comet hunting
Nova and supernova
Meteor and fireball meteor patrol
Spectroscopy
Etc
Plus the recent gravity wave project posted about here the other week.
Looking at the kit recommended, it’s not that different from what a lot of people here have so I don’t think you are limited by kit.
Some of this stuff doesn’t need dark skies either.
Each project has an organisation somewhere which will happily accept data that you have collected. The US Navy star catalogue org who deal with variable stars states when the data they have needs updating as an example.
And then there’s all the stuff people here been cited for such as new galaxies,etc or who contribute because someone asks for images of PN.
So, I still think there are plenty of opportunities to contribute.
Another thing to consider is that while you might miss out on new discoveries in some areas, there's also a need for follow up or continuing observations over a long time - this is something that amateurs can excel at - they can chose their target(s) "at whim".
Have we reached the end of amateurs can contribute to Astronomy ?
Yes, and as a result of several things.
I would have thought the exact opposite, that we're right in the sweet spot for amateur contributions. A few decades ago, amateurs were pretty much limited to visual means - variable star observations, the odd comet and nova discovery. Astronomy science has moved on, breathtaking now in its scope and complexity, and so have the tools available to amateurs.
We mightn't discover many comets these days with mobs like PanSTARRS discovering them at around the mag 20 mark but follow-up astrometry & photometry is what amateurs contribute. Same with asteroids. There are many PACA (Pro-Am Collaborative Astronomy) groups on Facebook, set up by professional organisations to gather comet data that would never even get on the waiting list for pro telescope time. Planets too - look at what Trevor (Quark) has achieved for example.
Professional telescope time is too valuable to undertake time-series on dwarf-novae and other highly variable objects to identify their nature, but amateurs can and do. And the AAVSO get lots of requests for amateurs to observe particular stars in support of professional campaigns. You can still observe variable stars visually if you want, all valuable, especially Legacy campaigns & bright stars. Supernovae, look at what BOSS has done in recent years! Most supernovae are beyond the old visual means for amateurs. Spectroscopy, as Terry said, is another field that amateurs can now contribute to, not only with high cadence on interesting objects but in time-sensitive identifications.
Nearly all nova discoveries are by amateurs (13 out of 15 last year) and very little equipment is necessary. DSLR, lens & star-tracker will do it.
And I won't even mention data-mining the vast on-line databases - damn, I mentioned it!
It will come to an end though, but only when dedicated space-based telescopes can provide all-sky coverage at extremely high cadence and when we develop systems for downlinking huge numbers of petabytes of data per day, analysing them and presenting results in near real time. It could be sooner than we think!
[QUOTE=Wavytone;1420670]" Have we reached the end of amateurs can contribute to Astronomy ?
Yes, and as a result of several things."
I doubt it Wavy.
Things rightly change. It's just a matter of amateur astronomer evolution and finding where you fit, are needed, welcomed and valued i.e. pro/am collaboration.
The legendary telescopic/visual guru of SN Bob Evans, didn't find more Supernova when CCDs and teams like BOSS, POSS etc went deeper and found them fainter. BOSS team etc slowed in finding Supernova when the professional surveys like ASAS-SN etc went deeper, fainter, and the whole of the sky surveyed far more often - so we evolved - had to, and as you will see below it is bearing fruit and occasionally we still find one ourselves.
So without going deeply into the significant and recent contributions to the science by some of our fellow IIS members, including Terry Lovejoy, Strongman Mike, Rob K, Astrojunk (Jonathan) Quark etc, etc, I will say from a Supernova point of view there is much you can still contribute. Greg & I from the BOSS team, while not doing so many discoveries/searches now for various reasons, are still very active in confirming discoveries for one of those large surveys called ASAS-SN. http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...in/index.shtml
ASAS-SN acknowledge those who contribute, yup including amateurs. In fact they have an even better way of acknowledging us - we are "unpaid professional astronomers". Not only that, when your image is the one that confirms their discovery they actually list you in their official discovery advice through the Transient Name Server (see image below) as the first name on the discovery certificate! And you are also included in their annual wrap up to the Royal Astronomical Society Journals! image
That's a long way from being at the end of what amateurs can contribute.
Below is part of the ASAS-SN team acknowledgement, many of whom are amateur astronomers, sorry, "unpaid professional astronomers" and there is nothing to stop anyone here on IIS being involved.
"An important part of our project is the follow-up effort with bigger telescopes to get confirmation imaging (our images have ~8" pixels). We are fortunate to have a number of "unpaid professional astronomers" working with us on ASAS-SN "ad hoc" SN confirmation effort, including G. Bock (BOSS), E. Conseil (Association Francaise des Observateurs d'Etoiles Variables, France), I. Cruz (Cruz Observatory, USA), J. M. Fernandez (Observatory Inmaculada del Molino, Spain), S. Kiyota (Variable Star Observers League in Japan), R. A. Koff (AntelopeHills Observatory), G. Krannich (Roof Observatory Kaufering, Germany), P. Marples (BOSS), G. Masi (Virtual Telescope Project, Ceccano, Italy), L. A. G. Monard (Klein Karoo Observatory, Western Cape, South Africa), B. Nicholls (Mt. Vernon Obs., New Zealand), J. Nicolas (Groupe SNAUDE, France), R. Post (Post Astronomy), G. Stone (Sierra Remote Observatories), W. Wiethoff (University of Minnesota, Duluth, USA). You can see from many joint Astronomer's Telegrams we have published that it is a very fruitful collaboration - we have confirmed together more than 400 supernovae!"
There is some great gear that many IIS members have already, but relatively cheap/modest gear will do the trick.
One thing about Astro sites like IIS is you can pick up some pretty cheap 2nd hand gear that will allow you that opportunity.
The current ads section of IIS has a Meade 8inch LX90 @$1200 & Starlight Xpress SX7 (color) @$125 . These combined with the older software CCD Soft & Sky6 ($200 max??) & a Windows 7 laptop would be basic gear for less than $2000 that would give you a lookin at confirming brighter Supernova discoveries in 30 second images.
Or even the 8 inch Meade SCT @$600 on the HEQ5 @$950 with the MX7 @$125 will allow you to take longer images (and still less than $2000).
In fact several of my own early discoveries were 30 second images using a 12inch LX200 in altaz with an SX7 (monochrome) camera and Sky6 & CCD Soft on a Windows 7 laptop.
PS to the original poster Jeremy, you posed a really good question and the input here has been more than positive. Bravo Jeremy.
Last edited by PeterM; 19-03-2019 at 10:41 AM.
Reason: added image
Recording asteroid occultations is my thing. A real buzz when I accurately measure when and for how long the target star winks out, and I love the fact that I'm an amateur that can contribute! Modest equipment outlay: regular 'scope (SCT) + recording & timing gear that costs less than a premium eyepiece. Dean
My thanks to Jeremy for raising the subject of amateur astronomers and science. This gives me the the opportunity to mention that the theme of the upcoming National Australian Convention of Amateur Astronomers (NACAA) in Parkes, Easter 2020 is 'Science and the Citizen'. This covers both public outreach and amateur astronomy science. Naturally papers on any aspect of amateur astronomy are sought; it's just that we'd like to give these topics a bit of a kick along. I'm about to make some announcements (ta-da), so look out.
My thanks too to those who have spoken up for amateur science. I also think that there is still plenty of scope (sorry) for amateur astronomy research. In fact, I doubt there has been a better time for amateurs since the advent of professional astronomy. I'm quite aware of the possibilities that have closed over the last 45 years as the 'big guys' move in and the skies brighten. For example, automated patrols have pretty much killed comet and asteroid hunting and urban meteor watching is the pits (trust me). We also have to accept that if an topic is really 'sexy', professionals will move in: we are unlikely to get on the front page of the news.
The good news is that a wealth of improvements has offset these losses.
telescopes are relatively cheaper. In 1975 I paid $200 for a set of 10” optics from AOS but a set of GSO optics is still <$400.
telescopes are much better – especially the mounts.
there has been a revolution in detectors. No more darkrooms, data goes straight to software.
software and internet make prediction and analysis far far easier (I used to get grazing occultation predictions in the mail every 6 months and later analysed tape recordings by ear)
community. Well, … we have IIS – but also places like IOTA, RASNZ-Occultation Section etc.
Being in a niche isn't a negative; it's a fact of research life. Every academic I know is in a niche of some kind. Some have a favourite research theme (eg antartic moss communities, the Lake Eyre Basin) or are experts in a technique that is applied widely (eg carbon dating, stable isotope analysis) or are narrow specialist working in a narrow field (eg optical stimuated luminesence dating of the deposition of sediment to date archaeological sites). So, if you wind up studying just one type of variable star with just one technique, that's fine, that's normal. Just try to do it well.
My old boss used to say 'figure out what you can do that no one else can do'. If you add 'or is doing' then you have pretty good advice for prospective amateur scientists. Amateurs do have some natural advantages over professionals. Telescope time is one of them. You don't have to apply to a committee to get fixated by one project. Want to follow long-term variables? Sure; you can observe each one on your list every fortnight for the rest of you life. Co-operation is another. The BOSS team is a good case in point. They achieve much more together than they could apart. Another example is asteroid occultations. By their nature they need multiple observers so as to get multiple chords across the asteroid. You also have to allow for the prediction's uncertainty and have extra observers. Ideally we should have an observing 'fence' across eastern Australia of potential observers who are willing to attempt events which pass over them. That sort of teamwork would quickly greatly increase the number of asteroids whose true size is known – something professional observatories can't do.
Dont even need equipment to contribute just a phone app with some of the citizen science projects like exo planets and galaxy classifications. Looks at Hannys Voorwerp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanny%27s_Voorwerp as an example
I count myself as one of those (many I think) who pursue astronomy as a hobby which challenges the intellect, gives artistic and perhaps even spiritual satisfaction and gives me the opportunity to wonder and dream about the far reaches of our universe. I do not pursue astronomy as a science nor with any hope or expectation of contributing to science. I do it because I have been fascinated by the universe since I was in very short pants and get the greatest satisfaction from what I can observe and image. I do it for me.
That is not to diminish the work of those many admirable people with a greater scientific bent than I. I envy and admire them and applaud what they do. But to each his own.
I count myself as one of those (many I think) who pursue astronomy as a hobby which challenges the intellect, gives artistic and perhaps even spiritual satisfaction and gives me the opportunity to wonder and dream about the far reaches of our universe. I do not pursue astronomy as a science nor with any hope or expectation of contributing to science. I do it because I have been fascinated by the universe since I was in very short pants and get the greatest satisfaction from what I can observe and image. I do it for me.
That is not to diminish the work of those many admirable people with a greater scientific bent than I. I envy and admire them and applaud what they do. But to each his own.
Peter
Well said Peter, ultimately it's a personal adventure where we each find the satisfaction that suits us.
