Speaker wire diameter and performance

[leon]

Hi guys, I have a question for anyone that knows really, and that is dose the thickness of speaker wire effect its performance.

I have just re-installed a sound surround system and the old wires attached were not long enough to go to where i wanted it to go, and seeing that i had some other speaker wire not of the same thickness i thought it would be OK to use it ???

So to make a long story short, dose length and thickness of the wire change the performance.

Thank you.

Leon

[ZeroID (Brent)]

At higher power levels it can for hi spec systems. My feeders to the back speakers (50 litre AudioLabs ) is 5mm braided shielded copper. Prevents crosstalk and lagging of hi frequencies.
For normal listening and domestic systems, not really. Although I'd always like to see good well connected multi-strand copper wire used regardless, not some cheap trurip twin bell wire stuff.
Regardless make sure your connections are clean and well secured.

[omegacrux (David)]

It does make a difference ,
The stuff they ship with is just adequate .cost savings
Go thicker it won't hurt
Someone with more brains than me can explain the science

David

[torana68 (Roger)]

yes it does but I doubt you would notice, its more for those running 1000w or more and entering comps. that clear stuff you can get at most car shops should do it (you can see the copper through the clear), dont use that old plastic coated solid thin wire stuff.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

There is a lot of BS in this area. If its for your front or surround speakers and under say 100w ea, then just about anything will do. Shielded?, not really. If its for a 1000w sub, then yes, fat cable counts, but only if its far from the amp.

[MrB (Simon)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

There is a lot of BS in this area.

[leon]

Many thanks for your response, the system, although it performs quite well is not of the highest standard.
It is a Panasonic Sound Surround System that I bought will the TV, and I am just relocating it's position.

Leon

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

There is a lot of BS in this area. If its for your front or surround speakers and under say 100w ea, then just about anything will do. Shielded?, not really. If its for a 1000w sub, then yes, fat cable counts, but only if its far from the amp.

Also have to agree with this, Leon by the sounds of it the stuff you're planning on using will be fine.

Cheers
Stuart

[taminga16 (Greg)]

Hi Leon,
Bunnings carry Oxygen Free Copper cable in various gauges (on spools), sold for low voltage garden lighting, purchase the thickest stuff and it will more than serve your purpose and save you as well.
Greg.

[Astro_Bot]

Just a note: the vast majority of copper wire manufactured worldwide is "oxygen free" on some level - there are different grades of purity. Some audio suppliers use the term "oxygen free" as a marketing gimmick without ever specifying exactly what grade of copper they're using (and it might be the lowest).

Cheap lamp flex is just as good a conductor at audio frequencies as "audio" cable costing 20x as much. Forget about the gimmicks.

[leon]

You have all been most helpful, thank you.

Leon

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Leon,

Make sure you maintain the correct polarities. (Red or marked wire to the red/marked terminals Can be different colour sometimes.) Getting it wrong will not damage anything but it affects the sound. The diaphragms of the speakers should be all in sync. If they are out of sync the stereophonic effect suffers.

Cheers

[acropolite (Phil)]

Have to agree with Astro_bot, 240V. Figure 8 cable is adequate for most installs. Fred's right about the BS, hifi dealers push huge cables and OFC to make money, no other reason. The only cable that minimises crosstalk is twisted pair or shielded cable, none if the speaker cables I've seen are twisted and given the distance most speakers are apart crosstalk should ever be an issue.

[gary]

Originally Posted by leon

I have just re-installed a sound surround system and the old wires attached were not long enough to go to where i wanted it to go, and seeing that i had some other speaker wire not of the same thickness i thought it would be OK to use it ??? :

Hi Leon,

Each speaker cable consists, of course, of two wires.
At the end of one of the wires you have stripped, if you were to get out your calipers, what is the diameter of the conductive copper bundle?

Do you happen to know the impedance of your speakers? Are they 8 ohm or 4 ohm?

How long would the longest cable now be from the amplifier to the speaker?

[AndrewJ]

Also agree, simple fig8 DC power cable will do for most modern systems.
The cable characteristics can affect some specific setups, esp high strung low power valve amps with low damping factors driving very efficient speakers, but that is not normal for 99.99% of users :-)

Andrew

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Leon,
I am a technician. I served 20 years in the Army and worked on everything from telephones to radar systems. I repaired stereos, TV's. I am also very interested in good audio systems. That's my qualifications.

Do not concern yourself with oxygen free cable or crosstalk. Crosstalk was a problem with early Hi Fi systems. It was generated from the source. From vinyl records and tapes. Also a little originated in the amplifiers. Any cross talk between speaker cables may have been able to be measured but certainly not heard. The speaker impedance is very low to effect power transfer, what tiny bit jumps across the cables is virtually nothing. Crosstalk is in the order of micro or picovolts. You need at least tens of milli-volts to hear anything from the speakers. Crosstalk is a concern with inputs to amplifiers.

Figure 8 cable is fine. Its just that it is difficult to identify the polarities.
As far as power handling its rated at about 10amps. That at true RMS power will mean 400watts into a 4 ohm speaker or 800 watts into an 8 ohm speaker. That's the limits.

For easy listening a typical speaker consumes about 200mwatts Less than a quarter of a watt. 10 watts is very loud. The neighbours would be calling the cops if you have any near. The cable carries 2.5A into a 4 ohm load. Or 1.25A into 8 ohm load.

This brings me onto the manufacturers' power rating of their amplifiers.
Such things as peak RMS pwr, Peak music pwr etc. It is all BS. Manufacturers exaggerate the output power. eg. 10 watts RMS is somewhat equivalent to 100 watts peak music power. There are no set figures unless the power is stated as true RMS power.

How I was once told how to convert to true RMS pwr from peak music pwr. Was to divide the peak music pwr by 4 add your age and subtract the current date.

All you need to worry about is what has been said already. If you use figure 8 it is well above what you need but has that polarity difficulty. That is well and good.
Dick Smith and a host of stores carry marked polarity cable. Some cheap cable that is about the same gauge as the figure 8 is easier to install. Then you can be sure to have it right. I have in the past marked one side of a figure 8 cable with red texta.

Hope that clears up a few misconceptions.

Cheers

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Baddad

Hi Leon,

Make sure you maintain the correct polarities. (Red or marked wire to the red/marked terminals Can be different colour sometimes.) Getting it wrong will not damage anything but it affects the sound. The diaphragms of the speakers should be all in sync. If they are out of sync the stereophonic effect suffers.

Cheers

I think that deserves a qualification... if you reverse the polarity of one (and only one) of the speakers, the stereophonic effect suffers at frequencies - mid bass and above. In the bass and sub bass frequencies you will not notice this effect but you will notice a loss in the perceived power of the bottom end of the system to the tune of 6db due to phase cancellation in this part of the audio spectrum. (Assuming the speakers are placed equi-distant from the listening position)

In a situation which is applicable to professional audio, the loss of the stereo effect would be meaningless to 95% of the audience but the loss of control of (acoustic) power distribution would be unsatisfactory to the majority. Sadly, few PA's are set up well enough for this to be noticeable, let alone a problem.

In any event, you can run a couple of kW down a 6mm^2 conductor over any run length you are likely to consider (domestically) without running in to any problems. If you want to save yourself some money, just cut up a 240v extension cord. Being mindful to cut the male plug end off first.

[White Rabbit]

Leon Forget all the techno talk, I'm a qualified sound engineer and I use cheap speaker cables from jcar. You only need to make sure that red and black from the amp meet red and black on the speaker. At the cable runs in the average living room and for the quality of the average home theatre system cheap cable is fine. You will not notice any difference in sound quality, unless you wire your speakers incorrectly I even doubt you'd be able to tell that you your speakers where out of phase due do not maching the reds and blacks.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Clive,

just cut up a 240v extension cord. Being mindful to cut the male plug end off first.



Could be a shocking experience. I have seen that done. Still plugged in.

Cheers

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Leon

Forget about all the hype about amplifiers and speakers that is only sales talk to confuse the gullible audiophiles so that they will spend lots of money to boost their egos.

The practicality of speaker wire size is irrelevant for most people. The current amplifiers have low impedance outputs into low impedance speakers so the transfer of power is governed by I x I x R . All this means that the power from the amplifier will be divided between the speaker and the feed line in the ratio of R/R. This may be important if you have a 1000 watt amplifier but will not be noticed by most users. The lower the R (larger the wire size) of the speaker cable the more power will be delivered to the speaker.

So if you follow what White Rabbit says you can't go wrong.

Barry