#1  
Old 18-02-2010, 09:13 PM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
STL-11000M or ST-8300M

I wish to relinguish the DSLR and jump head first into the wild world of cooled monochrome CCD imaging.

I don't usually do this, but, I'm asking the collective intelligence of this wonderful community in helping me decide.

Not sure which way to go. I'm a firm believer in diving into the deep end and learning how to swim, so, ease of use is a non-issue.

I have a 5" triplet apo refractor on a G-11 mount and currently employ an 80mm ZenithStar with a Meade DSI-C for autoguiding.

Potential to purchase an 8" imaging Newtonian or an 8-10" RC in the future is not out of the question, either.

If I decide to go ahead, the modified 40D will be on sale.

Cheers.

H

Last edited by Octane; 18-02-2010 at 11:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18-02-2010, 09:25 PM
telecasterguru's Avatar
telecasterguru (Frank)
Have scope will travel!

telecasterguru is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pitnacree NSW
Posts: 1,452
H,

I will not profer advice as I still have not made my own decisions but good luck in what ever CCD you choose.

I am sure that whatever you decide it will be a wise and well thought out acquisition.

Frank
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18-02-2010, 09:34 PM
Paul Haese's Avatar
Paul Haese
Registered User

Paul Haese is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,363
The STL on the 5" is going to be superb. The ST is cheaper but does not have the same field of view. The ST on an RC is ok but if I was going to do it all again I would be using a larger sensor. However the STL on an RC8 causes some vignetting, so it is not suited to that scope. On a newt the STL would be fine so long as the secondary has enough real estate. It's a tough question but go for a STX11K. By pass the STL altogether. you will save yourself some former problems.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18-02-2010, 10:03 PM
Jeffkop's Avatar
Jeffkop (Jeff)
Star-Fishing

Jeffkop is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tuckurimba
Posts: 885
Hi H

I had the same dilemma last October. Was set on buying the Fingerlakes equivalent ML8300 I think. I think that 8300 sensor is a winner. THEN Jase thru a spanner in my works and posted his STL11000 in the classifieds ... I sat around resisting and thinking up all the reasons not to buy it but in the end I went with it as the package represented pretty good value to me.

I know none of this helps you but I think from all reports the ST8300 is looking like a reasonable product. If I went that way I would go the way that Alex went and couple it to a Fingerlakes CFW 2-7 not bother to get those odd sized filters and CFW from SBIG ... seems that a set of 2" filters would be more usable down the track in future equipment changes.

Im also pretty sure that the new ST range offers significant advances in camera technology too ... mind you in saying that I think the STL has a reasonable reputation too ... Value wise I guess the new price of $7900 for an STL plus about another say 900 bux for filters and GST I dont know, not much change out of 8K I would imagine is probably pretty good for what you get. On the other hand the ST8300 and a CFW2-7 and adapters and filters is going to be around the $5500 - $6000 mark ... and also the extra complication of a guide scope if you dont already have one.

Hmmmm its a real hard one this isnt it. Guess you have to look at what you get for the extra 2K with the STL ... Dont know mate, but with all the great results Ive seen here with the ST8300 I think if I can get of the fence I would be seriously tempted by evaluating what the extra 2K
for the STL represents ... If you dont already have a guidescope and camera then youve to add i dont know maybe another 700bux min to the ST8300 path.

So I guess if it was ne if I had already a guidescope and camera then I would go the ST8300 direction ... if not then I would take advantage of the special STL price and grab it.

I dont vouch for the soundness of this advice nor its accuracy money wise ... just thinking out loud and typing it.

Whichever way ... you'll br happy Ide say
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19-02-2010, 10:01 AM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
Guys,

Thanks so much for your replies, emails and private messages -- I really appreciate your thoughts and input.

I think I'm going to go with the STL-11000M. Paul, I'd love to go the STX route, however, I have no idea when they will be released, and, they're a bit out of my price range if the STX-16803's pricing is anything to go by.

The big issues which are swaying my decision:

Internal guide chip;
Internal filter wheel (with provision for external filter wheel capability);
Multi-stage cooling (with water cooling capability);
Well depth;
Proven reliability and proven results;
Resale prospects; and
Availability

I've emailed Peter Ward and requested a quote. I guess you could say that I'm just a little bit excited at the prospect of becoming a father, again. :tonguepoke:

Cheers.

H
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19-02-2010, 07:42 PM
spearo's Avatar
spearo (Frank)
accepts all donations

spearo is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Braidwood (outskirts)
Posts: 2,280
Bugger....
Another 6 months of clouds to endure...
At least we'll know who to blame!
frank
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19-02-2010, 08:28 PM
DavidU's Avatar
DavidU (Dave)
Like to learn

DavidU is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: melbourne
Posts: 4,716
Oh no !!! Can you imagine what H is going to do when he gets his mits on a STL-11000M !! Awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19-02-2010, 08:43 PM
AlexN's Avatar
AlexN
Tunnel Vision

AlexN is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 6,708
Mate - In all seriousness, despite the huge difference in QE, If I'd had the money to buy an STL11K, I would have... And I would probably swap my ST8300/CFW2-7/Astrodon LRGB filters for an STL-11K without filters... * I would keep the NB filters! haha

If you can afford the STL, get it. Or hold out to see if SBIG release an STX-8300... They have listed it as a possibility at this stage, and I am waiting with baited breath. If the STX8300 comes out I'll definitely make the change for superior cooling, self guiding, and the ability to use AO/RGH setups....

The ST8300 is a no frills imaging setup. It produces the goods left right and center, and I suppose thats where it really matters, but it has nothing that sets it apart from the hoard of other 8300 cameras out there.. The STL-11K is a real imaging machine... Shame you're asking this question now... Had it been two weeks ago I'd have been pointing you towards the FLI PL11002M setup that was for sale Awesome camera too...

Money wise, my ST8300/CFW/Filters/OAG/Guide cam cost me about $300 less than what an STL11002M C2 costs with no filters... so really, you're talking a saving of $900, but you're cutting corners so to speak, OAG is not self guiding, the quality is not the same.. The sensor size difference is pretty immense, the QHY5 is no where near as sensitive as the internal guide chip in the SBIG cams... The Texas Instruments TC-237 guide chip that was in my ST9 could easily guide through a 13nm Ha filter with 2sec exposures, binned 2x2...

You can save money, and have a lot more sensitivity, or you can have a fully featured imaging camera, but cost more money...

Its hard to compare the two cameras really, because they are so different...

I suppose I would put forth, that if you've got the money to consider the STL11K, but you're still considering the ST8300 based on either price or its sensitivity and pixel size for your imaging setup... Perhaps you should look at something like the FLI ML8300.. It cools faster, and futher than the ST8300, has exceptional noise characteristics (as a result of the supreme cooling) faster image downloads (2sec vs 7.5sec) is smaller, and to my knowledge, lighter.. All the upsides of the KAF8300, with much better cooling than any other 8300 camera...

All in all, there is no answer that anyone can give you that will satisfy you.. You really have to buy what you want.. If you want the extra sensor area, and all the extra features of the STL, get it.. If you're more interested in the small pixels of the KAF8300, and its sensitivity, then I would say, think long and hard about what 8300 camera you buy... There are many many options out there, and its easy to get lost... I'm happy with the ST8300, and I was absolutely amazed at what it produced on its first light attached to a ED127... I can vouch for the combination... They go well together... Had I had more money at the time of purchase, I would have bought the FLI 8300 based purely on cooling... My second choice would have been the Apogee Alta U8300M, Then the ST8300...


Sorry if I've rambled on there a bit.. It is something I've thought about before, so I have many mixed feelings on the subject. Comes down to personal tastes and requirements really.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19-02-2010, 10:39 PM
strongmanmike's Avatar
strongmanmike (Michael)
Woohoo it's clear

strongmanmike is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 14,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Guys,

The big issues which are swaying my decision:

Internal guide chip;
Internal filter wheel (with provision for external filter wheel capability);
Multi-stage cooling (with water cooling capability);
Well depth;
Proven reliability and proven results;
Resale prospects; and
Availability
Why haven't you considered FLI Humi?

Both the FLI MicroLione and ProLine with CFW-2-7 meet all these requirements and more. They are tried and tested systems, you will have super cooling so not need water, pumps and buckets and ice etc in the summer, your images will be cleaner off the camera and come down muuuuch faster and you will be able to fit a full set of broad and narrow band filters in the filterwheel.

FLI will put any chip you desire in either of these platfroms so you can have what you want.

All the major good software supports FLI

The internal guide chip in the SBIG's is almost a waste of time with your system, many people have given up even using the guide chip all together due to the pain and limitations it puts on narrowband imaging and framing . I have used piggyback for many years now and have had no trouble at all and your scope is even shorter FL .

Personally I recon the decision is easy, the few extra bucks for one of the FLI systems are well worth it IMO.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
Hi Mike,

I did consider FLI, but, it's just out of my budget. Also, I don't think I'll be doing any narrowband imaging anytime soon. The filters are quite expensive and I can't afford them. The beauty with narrowband filters is that you can pretty much image anytime you want. I can't even do this as I don't have a backyard at the place I'm renting at. The SBIG solution, at present, comes with the relevant HaLRGB filters that I need to get started.

This is a massive step for me. In more ways than one -- the financial outlay is a huge undertaking for me and is already breaking the budget as is. It is a bit of a now or never situation for me. This deal was just too good to pass up.

If, in future, the system turns out to be crap (which I highly doubt), I am sure I will be able to find a buyer.

Please don't be hating me for my decision to go with brand X over brand Y. In the end, it's a tool, and, in capable hands can do (has done) phenomenal things.

H
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20-02-2010, 01:31 PM
spearo's Avatar
spearo (Frank)
accepts all donations

spearo is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Braidwood (outskirts)
Posts: 2,280
HAHAHAAHAH
hoping the buyer doesn't remember this thread!!!!
frank
PS (dont worry it CANT turn out to be crap)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post

If, in future, the system turns out to be crap (which I highly doubt), I am sure I will be able to find a buyer.

H
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20-02-2010, 02:19 PM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
Frank,

You cheeky bugger!

H
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20-02-2010, 03:08 PM
spearo's Avatar
spearo (Frank)
accepts all donations

spearo is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Braidwood (outskirts)
Posts: 2,280
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20-02-2010, 03:41 PM
strongmanmike's Avatar
strongmanmike (Michael)
Woohoo it's clear

strongmanmike is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 14,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Hi Mike,

Please don't be hating me for my decision to go with brand X over brand Y. In the end, it's a tool, and, in capable hands can do (has done) phenomenal things.

H
Don't be silly me no hate anyone

You will probably have an adequate system no matter which way you go I recon, it's just whether you want Miele or Westinghouse appliances in your imaging Kitchen

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20-02-2010, 06:42 PM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,771
Good choice H, its a reliable, proven, industry standard workhorse. IMO you should get the external SBIG guide cam with it for little extra cash for what it can do. As its cooled, its very low noise for long guide exposures (or just less noise for the usual 2 secs), and as a result, critically, you can build a dark library for it which is subracted on every exposure (with DL anyway). Fussy yes, but a proper stacked dark makes all the difference, and also makes the (also cooled) internal guide chip very usable, on Lum anyway, which is where you want the tightest guiding. As far as I know, these features are unique to SBIG.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 20-02-2010, 07:14 PM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
Fred,

Cheers. I think I will get the RGH. I wasn't going to, but, I have a guidescope, so I may as well.

I'm pretty darn excited!

H
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20-02-2010, 07:22 PM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,771
Well, you darn well should be ;-). Thats a huge leap from a DSLR, youll be stunned by the diff.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20-02-2010, 07:52 PM
SkyViking's Avatar
SkyViking (Rolf)
Registered User

SkyViking is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waitakere Ranges, New Zealand
Posts: 2,260
Congratulations Humayun, I'm sure you'll be very happy with your purchase. I've been pondering the exact same question myself since I'm planning to upgrade from my ToUCam. I will look forward to your results with great interest. Given the excellent quality of your DSLR images I'm sure we're in for a treat
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 20-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Octane's Avatar
Octane (Humayun)
IIS Member #671

Octane is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
Alex,

Just wanted to say thanks for the thought out and explanatory post. It all made perfect sense. I guess I've been spoilt by having a full frame 35mm DSLR and I know what kind of real estate it affords. Can't go back to small systems now!

If I was to go the 8300 route, then, I would seriously have considered the ML8300. A number of people had suggested that option and I dribbled and drooled on the FLI site for quite some time.

Frank, I have to thank you for being the impetus and catalyst for this purchasing decision. Should I get the Feathertouch now, or make you endure a /further/ six months of cloud (a year in total!)?

Rolf, I'll post my images here as I get a chance to take them. I was hoping I'd have it in time for Snake Valley, but, I don't think that'll eventuate -- it takes 4-6 weeks for delivery.

Of course, this is all hinging on whether I actually do go ahead and buy it. Right now, it is a 99% yes.

Thanks again, guys.

H
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20-02-2010, 09:09 PM
strongmanmike's Avatar
strongmanmike (Michael)
Woohoo it's clear

strongmanmike is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 14,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post

Of course, this is all hinging on whether I actually do go ahead and buy it. Right now, it is a 99% yes.

Thanks again, guys.

H
Ok here's the other 1%

JUST GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 01:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
NexDome Observatories
Advertisement
Meade Australia
Advertisement
Lunatico Astronomical
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Celestron Australia
Advertisement
SkyWatcher Australia
Advertisement
OzScopes Authorised Dealer
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement