Intel NUC PC's

rogerg (Roger) · #1 03-01-2016, 08:17 PM

Hi all,

Anyone have experience with Intel NUC pc's? I'm thinking of putting one at my telescope pier with short direct USB cables to devices such as camera and telescope mount.

My only concern really is whether the USB ports are suitable. That is, if they are powered enough for the devices. I am thinking all my astronomy devices have their own power supply so USB power should be irrelevant, but in reality?

Thanks,
Roger.

tim.stephens (Tim) · #2 03-01-2016, 09:36 PM

Be careful... I had a bunch of issues installing windows on it. My windows 7 install disc didn't have USB3 drivers on it so I had to make a custom image with the correct drivers so it would install from a USB.

Root cause is the latest NUC doesn't have any external USB2 ports and the install image of win7 only has USB 2 drivers. The Intel instructions were useless as was their 'tool' for creating the image. Had to do it via trial and error and the published method was not entirely fool proof.

Also, difficult to run it headless (no monitor or keyboard). You can't use Turbo VNC and remote into it without having a monitor plugged in. Only solution is to trick the NUC with a dummy HDMI plug to activate the internal graphics card if you wish to use a VNC client. Windows Remote desktop works fine however and I use that now. A few gotcha's that might be an issue.

Power wise- I wouldn't worry if you have a powered USB hub and cameras, filter wheels have their own 12V source.

I haven't done this yet but apparently it works on 12V. Currently running an extension lead to the mount and using the 19V DC adapter supplied. You'll need to do something creative with a power lead if you want to run direct from the battery. Another job for another weekend.

Other than that, it runs fine.

glend (Glen) · #3 03-01-2016, 09:55 PM

I looked seriously at them for my observatory but the cost for all the things you need plus the NUC itself convinved me that a simple HP Stream notebook was a better choice. I stuck a powered USB seven port board on the pier and just run a single USB3 back to the HP Stream. The little HP can also run all night on its internal battery, handy if you need to take it to a dark site.

rogerg (Roger) · #4 04-01-2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim.stephens

Be careful... I had a bunch of issues installing windows on it. My windows 7 install disc didn't have USB3 drivers on it so I had to make a custom image with the correct drivers so it would install from a USB.

Root cause is the latest NUC doesn't have any external USB2 ports and the install image of win7 only has USB 2 drivers. The Intel instructions were useless as was their 'tool' for creating the image. Had to do it via trial and error and the published method was not entirely fool proof.

Also, difficult to run it headless (no monitor or keyboard). You can't use Turbo VNC and remote into it without having a monitor plugged in. Only solution is to trick the NUC with a dummy HDMI plug to activate the internal graphics card if you wish to use a VNC client. Windows Remote desktop works fine however and I use that now. A few gotcha's that might be an issue.
...
Other than that, it runs fine.

Interesting, a contrasting view to the positive feedback I've had from others! I am concerned they can't run headless easily, that is want I was intending to do.

I would likely be installing Windows 10 on it, so I suspect my attempt would be more successful, being that Windows 10 would have drivers for USB3. Regardless it certainly sounds like it could be problematic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glend

I looked seriously at them for my observatory but the cost for all the things you need plus the NUC itself convinved me that a simple HP Stream notebook was a better choice. I stuck a powered USB seven port board on the pier and just run a single USB3 back to the HP Stream. The little HP can also run all night on its internal battery, handy if you need to take it to a dark site.

I won't be going the notebook line, but maybe a isimple desktop. I currently have USB 2 & 3 from pier to PC but have previously presumed a better practice would be to have the PC at the actual pier. I'm discovering in this investigation it's done less than I expected.

Thanks!

Eggmoon (Geoff) · #5 11-01-2016, 07:15 PM

I have set up two NUC's with Win 10 on them.... both run fine. One is for my kids, they play games on it, and the other is my fathers, which he uses as an office workstation. I have also thought of running one on my scope for the gear, but never gone further than "thought about it".

Both NUC's I set up have 4 USB ports built in, so that wouldn't be a problem... I think it's an excellent idea worth following up on.

Geoff.

rogerg (Roger) · #6 12-01-2016, 12:45 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedback.

I've ended up sticking with a standard desktop machine rather than a micro/bare bones.

Reasons being:

Minimal re-cabling to leave the PC where it is rather than relocate to the pier as I was thinking.
Desktop is able to continue doubling as my backup machine by housing an extra 4 HDD's, with the bare-bones I'd need to eventually buy a separate backup machine to replace existing.

My investigations of the NUC and Gigabyte Brix remained somewhat inconclusive as to which I would get. My preference was the Brix but questions remained about stated environmental requirements even though several IIS members have told me how they successfully run Brix without a problem for their astronomy and other purposes.

Regards,
Roger.

04Stefan07 (Stefan) · #7 12-01-2016, 04:39 PM

Intel NUC's in my opinion are fantastic!

I have setup around 30-40 of these for our environment at work and they some grunt considering the size of them!

Chuck in an mSATA or SATA 2.5" SSD (depending which model of NUC you get and you're laughing!).

The only issue I find with them are the monitor inputs. The i3 - i5 models have mini display port and mini HDMI. The Celeron model has a full HDMI port and a VGA port. This can get a bit messy and confusing.

As noted below about booting off a USB drive to install Windows, I have not had any problems what so ever doing that. You may need to change the EFI boot in the BIOS which I had to do a couple of times.

Any questions about them ask me as I have spent many hours using and setting them up.

stanlite (Grady) · #8 14-01-2016, 08:59 PM

I have a Brix and it works fine. I don't have an issue with remoting into it headless either. Also its 12V unlike the NUC's which are 19V.

cfranks (Charles) · #9 15-01-2016, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanlite

...............Also its 12V unlike the NUC's which are 19V.

I think the 'larger' ones need 19v. I've got the twin Celeron NUC, the slowest & cheapest and that only requires 12v.

alocky (Andrew lockwood) · #10 17-01-2016, 11:44 AM

Has anyone tried using one of these for video imaging with a usb-3 camera like the as120 or 174? Likewise, a HP Stream or similar? How do they cope with the high frame rate of these cameras?
Cheers,
Andrew

Eggmoon (Geoff) · #11 27-01-2016, 03:18 PM

Not tried it.... But am thinking of ripping the one the kids use for their homework off the back of the monitor I attached it to and giving it a go.

Oh... and I have seen several web site listing the Intel NUC's as requiring 12v-19v... so it seems they may run off the good old car battery.

Try the Scorptech mob... they have that listing. Again... maybe I'll try it out on the kids one....

Eggmoon (Geoff) · #12 28-01-2016, 11:05 AM

Ok....

I have one of those car-laptop chargers. It's voltage selectable for 15v-16v-19v, and the NUC runs just fine off ALL of those three voltages, connected to the 12v battery I use to power my scopes. And thats with a couple of USB peripherals connected, WiFi and Bluetooth turned on.

So I want to try it with a 12v connection.... but of course, the one that plugs into the scope is just the wrong size to plug into the NUC. And I swear I have a tip interchangable 12v adapter somewhere.... if only I could lay my hands on it.

But, long and short of it, it runs just fine off battery power, at 15, 16 and 19 volts. Given the car-laptop chargers are so cheap at places like Jaycar, JB HiFi, and Dick Smith (if they are still trading by the time you read this....) no real need to run it off 12v, just plug in the 19v adapter.

So... next step... I'll have to steal the kids NUC for a night... install all my software on it, see if I can run the scope from that, via wireless connection to my laptop. Just to see if it can be done. But I cant see how it wouldn't work. (Famous last words)

Geoff.

The_bluester (Paul) · #13 03-02-2016, 02:28 PM

I have four NUCs, all of them early generation ones, Three first gen and one second.

Getting Windows 7 on a new one may pose issues for the reasons mentioned above, but in fact the lack of support for newer hardware is pretty common. I needed to put WinXP on a later laptop recently and it was a huge headache to find the right drivers to make it all fly. Once done however, a slipstreamed Windows install off a USB drive is seriously quick.

Regards running them headless I think you will find very few PC's which will run headless with proper graphics resolution without a dummy plug. It seriously is as simple as that, get a HDMI dummy plug from the guys that sell the FitPC and plug it in, they are about $40. As soon as you do that off they go with any resolution it could spit out to a monitor. I bought one when I was playing around with a headless DistroAstro build on one of the NUCS looking towards it as an AP solution. That one is running headless with a Linux Ubuntu install on it as a minecraft server, Ubiquiti Wifi manager and PABX for our home IP intercom setup, I thknk that is all that is running on it! Running too many Minecraft worlds at once slows it down a bit but it is a Celeron worth about $150! At one point it was strapped to a monitor and acting as my shed PC. I am seriously looking at another which would get strapped to my mount in exactly the way you are thinking of.

Regards the 12V to 19V thing, I think that is a bit misleading I think. IIRC the Celeron version (Which is what I was going to use) runs a 12VDC supply, the rest run 19VDC. I measured power draw on one of the I3 ones at one point (Which is a HTPC running XBMC/Kodi) and it topped out under about 20W measured by a clamp multimeter on the 240V active multiplied by supply volts (Assumed at 240VAC) and the Celeron was almost identical.

bugeater (Marty) · #14 08-02-2016, 05:00 PM

Anyone have any idea what would be the minimum comfortable requirements for one of these as an observatory computer? Say running windows 8, sequence generator pro, PHD2, and Astrotortilla?
I have a reasonably new i3 laptop, which does the above fine, but would a celeron still do the job okay?

The_bluester (Paul) · #15 08-02-2016, 05:16 PM

That I can not really answer, I had a Celeron running as a shed PC until I grabbed it back to be the server in the house. It seemed pretty responsive for what it was doing (Using Linux Ubuntu) I reckon you might be better with an I3 though for heavier lifting.

tim.stephens (Tim) · #16 08-02-2016, 09:10 PM

I suppose I should give an update given the length of the conversation as it stands now...

The NUC I have (Celeron, gen 2) is really running well now that Win7 is installed. I currently have Cartes, Astrotortilla, PHD2 and Artemis (Atik capture software) running concurrently and am connected to it via the wifi and MS Remote Desktop Connection which fortunately doesn't require a dummy HDMI to access via a remote session.

Runs off a dedicated 12v lead to the battery box - just cut the wire and added to another fused power line.

I can now sit in the warm house during winter and image away happily. All I need now is a motorised focuser and FW and I'll be set! hehe

So, it is plenty powerful enough for most observatory applications. Image processing still happens on the mac but the NUC is really good enough for most things.

bugeater (Marty) · #17 09-02-2016, 10:07 AM

These things do look cool, but I'm not sure the price is quite there yet. You can pick up a refurbed i3 laptop from Dell for less than $400 and that includes everything.

Eggmoon (Geoff) · #18 10-02-2016, 10:57 AM

I think the appeal of the NUC isn't so much the processor power or price point. More that they are a fairly small, light weight box, that could be stuck to the mount, meaning not having to run anything other than power cables to the mount and the NUC, and camera if it requires separate power. The NUC then has shorter cable up to camera for data, to the mount for guiding, and all can be controlled wirelessly via your laptop or desktop. Basically turns your mount into an all-in-one device.

You could use fairly low end processors, as the only thing it has to do it mount control, guide and collect camera data. You can have a very minimal OS on it, keep it very lean. For instance, I run everything from my laptop now... but it also has a lot of other things installed on it... Excel, Word, Photoshop, etc, etc, etc... and all these require space, and usually some memory and processor time for parts that are loaded at boot. Those would not be needed at all in a minimal box that is solely for running the mount/scope/camera setup.

Geoff.

The_bluester (Paul) · #19 10-02-2016, 02:06 PM

That is how I have always viewed them. They are not a replacement for a laptop, but the packaging can make them quite attractive for certain jobs, low power, headless computing for one thing. You can certainly get just as competent a box for less money, but generally not in a 100mm square by 45mm footprint.

ghealey56 (Geoff) · #20 17-07-2019, 07:19 AM

Hi, I am running an I7, SSD, Win10pro NUC with terrific results. I have tried 12v and it seems OK but I am curious if any others have been using 12v on a 19v NUC over a long period of time. The NUC is a great solution, I use Microsoft Remote Desktop to access via my Macbook and I only have a power cable coming from my scope. At the moment it has 12 and 19v but I would like to reduce that to a single power feed.