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Old 10-05-2014, 11:48 AM
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stephenb (Stephen)
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Advice on observing Palomar and Terzan Globulars

Hoping to get up to Central Vic in a month or two and I want to give some of the Palomar and Terzan Globulars a go with the 18". I'm quietly confident I can grab most of the Palomars but I know I'll be pushing tish up hill with at most of the Terzans.

Anyone know of any good finder charts for both catalogues?

Any experiences from any members on nailing these faint globs?

I'm hoping to get to the VicSouth Desert Star Party in October so that should also give me good opportunity..

Cheers

Last edited by stephenb; 11-05-2014 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 14-05-2014, 12:32 AM
Renato1 (Renato)
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I really can't imagine you'd have much trouble with an 18" in central Victoria. I managed to see quite a few of those listed in AstroAtlas with my 14.5" in Pakenham, which was dark, but nowhere near as dark as at say Benalla. But some of them I never saw, despite repeated attempts.

Good luck,
Renato
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Old 15-05-2014, 07:28 PM
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Paddy (Patrick)
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You should be able to bag a few, but some are very faint and I've had a bit of trouble with 16" and good dark skies. I find that DSS images of each are quite helpful to make sure I know what I'm looking at. Especially as they show faint fg stars.
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Old 24-05-2014, 06:10 PM
astrospotter (Mark)
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You can find excellent wide telrad and tiny local field pictures in Alvin Huey's excellent guide that covers Terzan and Pal globs here
http://www.faintfuzzies.com/Files/Gl...sters%20v4.pdf

You will find some of the finest and free fully downloadable books of observing targets on Alvin's site here: http://www.faintfuzzies.com/

mark
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Old 25-05-2014, 06:18 AM
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Weltevreden SA (Dana)
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Finding faint toughies

Thanks to stephenb for asking the question and kudos to astrospotter Mike for linking to Alvin Huey’s invaluable guides. (And scads more kudos to Huey for making them in the first place.) Huey is the first place I look when going after a new faint whatever. I zero in on positions using his charts, but I don ‘t always get a solid idea of what the object will actually look like. I believe he used a 25” scope when compiling the most recent editions of his guides. His 25” has 1963 sq in of collecting area. Your 18” has 1018 sq in, which is 52% of his light gathering area. Secondary size loss will likely be about the same % in both your scopes. Secondaries don’t mean much light loss but do mean contrast loss. At this point hard numbers begin to lose significance because of seeing, LP, how contrast-acute your eyes are, and how many extended, low-contrast objects you have in your mental image bank.

For globulars, after checking Huey I go to Bill Harris’ catalog, where I compare the data for the new object, say Pal 2, with other objects with similar parameters for: (a) listed visual magnitude (Pal 2 = 13.0), (b) minus extinction (1.24 mag, which dims the visual to 14.25), and (c) the concentration class (which Harris doesn’t list but Wiki does). Pal 2 is Class IV. Classes I through IX mean I should see a stronger glow in the centre surrounded by a small, weaker halo. If a GC lists at Class X to XII, I know to not try for a white glow because the object will be quite spread out. Instead I look for an overdensity of stars at the faintest limits I can detect. Clusters that show no faint glow can be gorgeous little puffballs of tiny points.

A couple of other tricks. One, there’s a good way to estimate how large the faint fuzzy will be: the half-light radius, or r(h). This depends on the above-mentioned concentration parameter. Pal 2’s r(h) is a dismal 0.7 arcmin, or 42 arsecs. Two, check Harris for the Horizontal Branch magnitude (Pal 2 = 21.60). The red giant tip is usually 3.5 to 3.8 mags brighter, and red giants are the brightest stars in a GC. If you can see to mag 17.8 to 18.1, Pal 2 is in the realm of possibility. It will look like the dimmest planetary you’ve ever set eyes on, only dimmer. Best of luck.

Other GCs in Harris with parameters like Pal 2’s are NGC 6749 (Aquila), IC 1257 (Oph), the Pyxis globular, and the not-much-mentioned FSR 1735 in Ara. It was only classified as a GC in 2007, doesn’t appear on any amateur lists, and yet its parameters indicate it should resemble Djorgovski 2 (Sco). It’s at RA 16 52 10.6, Dec −47 03 29, visual 12.9 but a half-light radius of just 20 arcsec and RGB at 16.3 to 16.5. Another Ara tougie. It's quite close to Westerlund 1, my favourite because it’s the most difficult of all. Source crowding is just awful in this region.

Once your eyes begin to smart from all the fruitless hopping, you can always console yourself with Ruprecht 106, the poor cousin to nearby Omega Centauri but a very rich cousin compared with the Pals and Terz’s. It is visual 10.9 with negligible extinction, HB 17.8 & therefore red giants from mag 14 to 15, half-light radius 1 arcmin (but looks to me more like 3.5 arcmin). I know I have a great night for seeing when Ru 106 resolves into a dozen stars with trembles of many more.

Running hard numbers is a lot less of a thrill than seeing a faint glow. But when it comes to toughies, numbers spell the difference between hesitant and sorta confirmed. Besides, what else is there to do on a cloudy night? Unto every clear night we dwell, a cloth of cloud doth swell.

(So I get a ‘pass’ for astronomy and a ‘dismal fail’ for ersatz Shakespeare, is that it?)
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Old 31-05-2014, 12:06 PM
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stephenb (Stephen)
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THankd for all your feedback. Looks like I'm clouded out tonight so I might have to wait for another month.

Mark, thanks for the link - great site. I've bookmarked it and printed out some of the pages. Dana, Bill Harris’ catalogue is also valuable, thank you.

Incidently I created my own list of globulars. I spent months compiling a total of 189 globs from various lists, databases and catalogues. To the best of my knowledge these aren't too many more we know about at present (some of those are extra galactic).
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Old 31-05-2014, 12:09 PM
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stephenb (Stephen)
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Thanks for all your feedback. Looks like I'm clouded out tonight so I might have to wait for another month.

Mark, thanks for the link - great site. I've bookmarked it and printed out some of the pages. Dana, Bill Harris’ catalogue is also valuable, thank you.

Incidently I created my own list of globulars. I spent months compiling a total of 189 globs from various lists, databases and catalogues. To the best of my knowledge these aren't too many more we know about at present (some of those are extra galactic).

Dana also thank you for the interest data and explanation you have provided. You're way more advanced with this knowledge than I am however interesting none the less.
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Old 31-05-2014, 12:09 PM
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stephenb (Stephen)
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Thanks for all your feedback. Looks like I'm clouded out tonight so I might have to wait for another month.

Mark, thanks for the link - great site. I've bookmarked it and printed out some of the pages. Dana, Bill Harris’ catalogue is also valuable, thank you.

Incidently I created my own list of globulars. I spent months compiling a total of 189 globs from various lists, databases and catalogues. To the best of my knowledge these aren't too many more we know about at present (some of those are extra galactic).

Dana also thank you for the data and explanation you have provided. You're way more advanced with this knowledge than I am however interesting none the less.
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Old 31-05-2014, 12:18 PM
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stephenb (Stephen)
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Thanks for all your feedback. Looks like I'm clouded out tonight so I might have to wait for another month.

Mark, thanks for the link - great site. I've bookmarked it and printed out some of the pages. Dana, Bill Harris’ catalogue is also valuable, thank you.

Incidently I created my own list of globulars. I spent months compiling a total of 189 globs from various lists, databases and catalogues. To the best of my knowledge these aren't too many more we know about at present (some of those are extra galactic).

Dana also thank you for the data and explanation you have provided. You're way more advanced with this knowledge than I am however interesting none the less.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:55 PM
astrospotter (Mark)
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Another nice set of DSS for the Pal Globs

In the August 2010 Astronomy magazine (USA edition) I had found a complete collection of nice color DSS images for all 15 Pals which is of value for star field identification. I found this to be very valuable in my quest for these frequently limiting objects.

As for scope size, my 18" from wonderfully very dark skies with the dimmer Pals being near meridian can bag all 15. Once field identification is certain, choosing/trying optimal eyepeices (Delos, ZAO II 6mm) was important to get the convincing spot of slightly brighter background intensity for the real tough ones like Pal 15. Also highly dark adapted eyes under a hood. It took me an hour and a half to study and really detect Pal 15 and that was after at least 3-4 other tries from other sites. Catch that one high up as you can in excellent transparency from very dark skies is my thoughts for Pal 15.
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