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Old 13-05-2018, 09:57 AM
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Shiraz (Ray)
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TESLA big battery first operating figures - astonishing

Hi

the initial operating data for the Tesla big battery are in. Estimates are that the $50million investment has saved SA $35million in frequency and ancillary service costs over the past 4 months.

Now lets wait for the deafening silence from a large part of the press, the shock jocks and the coal lobby in federal parliament - or maybe they will just tag it as fake news.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-stun...battery-63917/

Of course our power prices have not come down, but that is another story - probably deserving of a "bank" type royal commission to identify exactly who is screwing us the most.

Last edited by Shiraz; 13-05-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 13-05-2018, 10:56 AM
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I think that there will be a lot of deafening silence from the pollies and others.

Now the question is, why is there not more coming on line?

You would think that at least two in every state can only be good for the public and economy.

Wont be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
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Old 13-05-2018, 10:57 AM
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That's good news eh.

Elon Musk is a cool guy.

Greg.
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Old 13-05-2018, 03:49 PM
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Wow! Thanks for that heads-up. Agree, will be interesting to see how much noise those facts generate (or don't....)
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Old 13-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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Nice one Ray.... not a squeak from a single Polly yet.... Not holding my breath
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Old 14-05-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
I think that there will be a lot of deafening silence from the pollies and others.

Now the question is, why is there not more coming on line?

You would think that at least two in every state can only be good for the public and economy.

Wont be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
hi Ric. There are two more big batteries coming on line in SA this year (mainly private funding) and the Federal and Victorian Governments have announced funding for two batteries in that state. Queensland and NT are in the early planning stages. NSW, WA and Tas??

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
That's good news eh.

Elon Musk is a cool guy.

Greg.
it will be good news if it brings down our power prices Greg - still waiting for that to happen. In the meantime though, our 50% renewable system apparently sailed through the summer without any local hiccups, so I guess that's good. As far as I can tell, the emergency backup diesel/gas generators that the state Govt put in place last year have not been used yet (at least I have not seen anything reported).

Musk is a complex character, but his vision and energy are remarkable.

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Originally Posted by RobF View Post
Wow! Thanks for that heads-up. Agree, will be interesting to see how much noise those facts generate (or don't....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_draco View Post
Nice one Ray.... not a squeak from a single Polly yet.... Not holding my breath
a blanket of silence seems to have descended. Interesting that the Feds have chipped in to help fund the Victorian batteries though, despite all the negative comments they made when the SA battery was installed (without federal funding).

Cheers Ray

Last edited by Shiraz; 14-05-2018 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 14-05-2018, 08:43 AM
geolindon (Lindon)
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Jay Wilson Weatherill was the 45th Premier of South Australia, serving from 21 October 2011 until 19 March 2018. His Labor government installed the battery but at the election it did not win them enough votes to counteract an electoral redistribution.
Just maybe, the people get the government they deserve?
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Old 22-05-2018, 04:33 PM
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These batteries are going in everywhere. All new renewable generators are required to allow for them (though not necessarily construct) prior to connecting to the network.
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Old 23-05-2018, 08:25 AM
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Indeed, the coal lobby in Oz has various groups held well and truly by the gonads and despite the SA Tesla battery success story is unlikely to loosen their grip anytime soon.

After years of trying to reduce our power bills I finally bit the bullet and installed a Tesla PowerwallII being fed by a 8.6Kw PV array on our roof.

It’s a sunny day...The 14Kw battery is 40% charged as I write (9.20am) it will be fully charged by noon, with all our daily power needs taken care of and about 6Kw going back to the grid. ROI about 4 years...maybe less if they keep jacking up the cost of energy.

Best decision I’ve made in a while...which I am sure the SA government is also realising with their uber big Tesla battery.

Last edited by Peter Ward; 23-05-2018 at 09:11 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 23-05-2018, 09:28 AM
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I cant help but think that its biggest benefit appears to be that it can exploit weaknesses in the bidding and pricing systems created by the cartels and administrators that manage how electricity is billed and managed on the national grid.

Once they reengineer these pricing and supply systems, those benefits might not necessarily continue as I am sure the cartels want to maximise their profits. So that might dramatically impact on the viability of more battery systems
But at least if it pays for itself in some way thats a good thing for SA.

Its original purpose was to provide power stability in the event of grid breakdowns and demand surges - not to act as a fluctuating "share price" trading mechanism !

There was no mention in that article if it managed to avert any possible problems through our last Summer - from a power perspective we might have sailed through unaffected with or without it. Maybe we can never know.

The writer makes the point -
“So that’s great for the first battery in the market,” he added, “but if you’ve already had 55 per cent of the FCAS that are now gone, right… and a 90 per cent drop in price, then the business case for the second battery, of course, is a bit less attractive.
“So I wish the second battery in South Australia a lot of luck!”


So Frequency Control Ancillary Services (FCAS) - ie holding the grid at a stable 50hz appears to be its biggest benefit by being able to be activated and deactivated in 200 millseconds and to take advantage of micro periods of frequency instability.


That is one aspect of grid stability, and no doubt helpful for overall grid stability.

Actual power supply as an alternative generator source for a prolonged period is another - so how would the battery system perform in the event of the loss of an interconnector or as happened, the strom damage toppling of multiple towers and loss of the other wind generated supplies.
My understanding is that it actually has a relatively low total energy availability (not a lot of power for not a lot of time), but maybe thats enough to protect the rest of the system ?


As someone who lost power for approx 2.5 days and 4 days last time this occurred and had to throw away fridges and freezers of food and be unable to function normally - I am much more interested in how the system will protect me from that sort of outage than whether it was able to make money by micromanaging FCAS !

I guess I have a foot in both camps here !
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Old 23-05-2018, 09:56 AM
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It took up load from a generator trip and saved a potentially large load shedding event pretty soon after it was commissioned.

"Interest was sparked in part by the battery's quickfire response – just 0.14 seconds – to inject electricity into the network following the failure of a 559-MW unit of Loy Yang A in Victoria's Latrobe Valley."

Though the rest of the article attempts to hose down that response by noting that the "Contracted" emergency reserve generator contributed about 13MW of the 559MW shortfall before the battery system responded.
That IMO is either dis-ingeniousness or lack of understanding. It is kind of how it works, generator trips, others take up what load they are capable of and probably more and the frequency begins to sag. Thermal generators are not "Reacting" to the shortfall as such to supply more power when you are talking millisecond timeframes, they are shedding turbine speed in response to a sudden increase in load. And anyone who knew it was happening (No one, 140 milliseconds is the time before the battery took up load) would be hoping like hell that the system reacted in time to prevent mass blackouts through frequency sagging prompting the kind of protection response that blacked out SA. That kind of generation trip is exactly the kind of thing that the battery systems should be best at mitigating. They are supposed to give enough time for orderly load shedding if required or for circuits to reclose if they are going to do so.

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/a...03-h0cxr7.html
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Old 23-05-2018, 10:04 AM
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Hi Rally
May I suggest that you purchase a genny.
Work out you needs to get through a back out and buy something to fit the job...
Up North not on the grid and even with solar they get used a lot.
$750 approx will get you a key or remote starter from Bunnings good for 2kva...dont even run it into the house system just a couple of extention cords for the must have items.

Alex
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