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Old 14-12-2017, 11:37 AM
chmatthew
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Eyepieces and Astro drawing

Hi All,
I like to (occasionally) try and draw some of the things I am observing. I have seen eyepieces like the Celestron micro-guide eyepiece which has a lot of different calibrations etched onto it so that you can work other thinks like angular separation and so on, but I was wondering if anyone know of a similar item which just has a grid on it so that it is like you are looking through a sheet of graph paper? such a thing would be very handy for getting the scale of some of the drawings correct.
Chris
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Old 14-12-2017, 12:32 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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Chris,
Sketching what you see can be very rewarding...
I have that Celestron MicroGuide eyepiece....
The other is the Celestron Or6mm G-E which has a grid reticle...
Unfortunately these are more suited to double stars/ planets than deep space objects.
I haven't come across a low magnification version.

When I did the SuperNova Charts I used a 25mm eyepiece on the 12" f5 (about x60) and visually constructed lines between stars, angles between stars. alignment of one star to the line between stars etc. to get a reasonably accurate sketch.
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Old 14-12-2017, 12:54 PM
Kunama
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The Baader Polaris 1 reticle guiding eyepiece might do the job.
It is a 25mm eyepiece with good eye relief and illuminated double lines with marked graduations.

https://agenaastro.com/baader-polari...e-2954325.html

I just received one yesterday but haven't used it yet.....
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Old 14-12-2017, 04:13 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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You could go all out precise on star positions in a sketch, but how long do you want to spend on a piece.

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A sketch also is just an individual's perception and interpretation of what they see.

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There is a place for this degree of positioning though. As Ken says, if you are describing the position of a supernova in a galaxy, being accurate in your position placements can be very useful.

But there are much more accurate methods of measuring angles that leave any guess work out of the equation. Any graduated eyepiece you use you need to make the necessary calculations for each individual scope's focal length, and then you need to apply these calculations to your piece. Something like a Nexus DSC unit takes all the guess work out of it, regardless of the scope you are using, particularly when you use the 600,000 click encoders with it.

For positioning just a few stars is what you want to do, a graduated eyepiece is fine. However, realise that most of these eyepieces are not of the highest quality, often being only fully coated rather than the better multicoated. Depending on your scope AND the lens design of the eyepiece, the may be a large amount of aberrations present that can render the image poor at best, useless at worst. And the apparent field of view of these eyepieces is also very small. They are not intended as a high quality visual eyepiece. The example Matt gives is such a piece. A kellner design (from the quoted AFOV and number of elements), nothing for keen visual observing or sketching.

Alex.

Last edited by mental4astro; 14-12-2017 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 14-12-2017, 08:02 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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I've been thinking a little more about this. There is another option, and one that has several advantages going for it, and may prove cheaper too.

If you have a goto mount, such as and HEQ5 or and NEQ6, it will provide a very accurate set of position coordinates that change as you slew the scope. This is the first part.

The second part is a decent, but inexpensive eyepiece, such as a TMB Planetary Type II from ebay - follow this link for a selection of them. You can disassemble the two lens assemblies (top and bottom groups) and place an optic fiber pointer into the field stop, and re-assemble the eyepiece (easy to do).

I did this to a 9mm TMB eyepiece myself. I mainly use it for outreach to point out features on the Moon. The first pic below shows the 9mm TMB next to a 9mm plossl - a 9mm plossl is one difficult eyepiece to use. The next pic shows the pointer as seen through the EP.

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Now, pop the eyepiece into the scope, and position the "home" star on the tip of the pointer and note down the coordinate position of this star. Next slew the scope to the next star, and note its coords. Simple trig calculations will give you the angular separation - which you will need to do anyhow. This method will prove extremely accurate, especially with such short focal length eyepieces.

Why use one of these particular eyepieces? First they are inexpensive, they have a great AFOV (58° compared to the pissy 40° of most reticle eyepieces, and 52° with plossls), a huge eye lens to look into, and a very generous 20mm eye relief in ALL focal lengths. Also, these are actually very good eyepieces, especially for their price! Far superior to any reticle eyepiece. Far superior too to any plossl eyepiece of the same focal length.

If you prefer a longer focal length eyepiece, you can do the same pointer system for say a 25mm plossl. But note that if you want to accurately measure angular separations, you need some eyepiece grunt.

Optic fiber strands are not hard to come by, and there are a few "ogre" tricks to strip the insulating sheaths around them.

You could go to the expense of a dedicated reticle eyepiece, but look at what you are producing: you are producing a sketch, so this alone has an inherent amount of inaccuracy. You cannot rely on a sketch to measure angles. Not accurately. You can position the stars to a good approximation on paper, but the measurements you would be better off reading coords from the computerised mount and doing your calculations. Much more accurate for record keeping.

Alex.

Oh, and to IIS, Chris!
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Old 14-12-2017, 08:12 PM
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Alex,
I think you’re overthinking the issue....
I think the OP just wants to obtain a sketch reasonably to scale which represents the object observed.
IMHO a 25mm with a grid graticle would suffice.
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Old 14-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Could be, Ken,

But remember, these reticle eyepieces are not good visual eyepieces. If you want a decent eyepiece to do scale drawings to, you still need to work with good eyepieces. My second post is intended to show how you can make your own simple reticle EP to measure with, and if the OP is clever with their hands, it would not be difficult for them to knock up a grid reticle, all the while using better quality eyepieces than these ready made reticle ones

I happen to have sold one such eyepiece to you too!

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=103572

We spend so much time chasing our tails for good eyepieces, so why should we forget this with reticle eyepieces?

Alex.
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Old 14-12-2017, 10:45 PM
Wavytone
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Hi Chris,

There are engraved glass reticles with a grid etched on them - typically at 1 or 0.1 mm spacings - used in biological microscopes, and you can find them on the net with a bit of Googling. But unfortunately you cant buy such a thing in an eyepiece ready-made.

I am fairly sure the only way you could do this is with a DIY effort - that means cannibalising an eyepiece with a lathe and some basic materials and workshop tools.

I'd start with a fairly simple eyepiece like a Plossl, Orthoscopic or Edmund RKE around 20-25mm focal length that has a ring defining the edge of the field which is accessible, and make a new barrel to mate the optics to a commercial reticles.

Lastly, there is an issue with distortion in eyepieces. Many have a lot of pincushion distortion - particularly wide-field types with apparent fields > 50 degrees.

Note that Orthoscopics are so-named for having zero or almost zero distortion, though the field of view is necessarily limited as a result.

While Mental posted one way to make a simple cross-hair using optical fibre, there are other ways, for example printing a grid onto transparency film and sandwiching that between glass cut from microscope slides; should work OK with some of the modern high DPI laser printers.

Another way if you have access to a CNC machine and a drill press is:
- coat a glass microscope slide in beeswax, then
- using the CNC machine to scribe a grid in the wax.
- apply a "witches brew" of acid to etch the grid into the glass.
- cut the reticle as a disc out of the slide using the drill press spinning a metal cylinder and abrasive,
- remove the wax, and
- mount the reticle at the focal plane of an eyepiece.

Last edited by Wavytone; 14-12-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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  #9  
Old 15-12-2017, 08:43 AM
Kunama
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Excuse the rough handheld picture, my DSLR weighs a ton, but here is the reticle from the above mentioned Baader polaris.

It is illuminated and fully focusable....
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Old 15-12-2017, 09:05 AM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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In the past I've re-used the reticle from my PEAK Lupe...
Come in various configurations.
https://www.peakoptics.com/index.php...page=page&id=1
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Old 15-12-2017, 09:37 AM
chmatthew
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Thanks

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the wonderful thoughts, ideas and suggestions. All very helpful and has given me a bit to think about.
Chris
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Old 15-12-2017, 11:18 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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Matt, you know I love you mate, don't ya But that reticle pattern won't help you with any drawing at all. It's no better than the cross hairs in a finder scope. I suggest you try to sketch a few open clusters with it, apart that it is like looking through a drain pipe and of what optical quality. The only pattern that is useful in drawing, sketching, drafting, whatever you want to call it, is a straight up simple grid pattern. Every other reticle pattern is nothing more than a glorified set of cross hairs

And in the end, one's own experience and confidence with sketching at the eyepiece will show that you will produce the correct scale and accuracy that works well. A reticle is only training wheels. Not necessary either...
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