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  #41  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:51 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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For predominantly urban usage, I think EVs have pretty much passed the "tipping point" as to whether they are a practical alternative, and now we just need to wait for the inevitable economies of scale before they become the economic option for at least one of the average household's two (or more) cars.

Even if you have a home where installing a fast-rate charger is impractical, the charge rate you can get from a standard wall socket is claimed to give around 10 km range per hour of charging - e.g. see: https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/...bile-connector
That would give you 100 km range or more for an overnight charge. Most of us do a LOT less than 100 km per typical week day (especially in our daily-drive "town" car), so over the course of a week of overnight trickle-charging, you should be fully charged come the weekend. Then you just need to plan your trips to include meal breaks / overnight stays where you can top-up. Sure, that's not as convenient (yet) as finding a petrol station, but you might be surprised to see that there are a lot of charging stations already available, and the number will grow rapidly as the number of EVs on the road grows: https://myelectriccar.com.au/charge-...-in-australia/
I would expect to see every major motorway fuel station will have multiple superchargers within a couple of years - stop for a toilet / coffee break, top-up for 15 - 20 minutes, and on your way for the next few hundred km.

It might take a few years before the range / convenience matches petrol / diesel, but be honest - how many of us can say hand-on-heart that an EV with a range of 200 km or more, and overnight trickle-charging, would not be viable for their week-day commuter / shopper, even if they "need" petrol / diesel for their weekender?

Yes, I will definitely be looking at EV options when it is time to upgrade. The price may not be right for a couple of years yet, but I would expect the price gap to close dramatically over the next 5 - 10 years.
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:58 PM
raymo
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Alex, can you imagine how big the wings would have to be to support our weight, not to mention the enormous muscles needed to drive them; you'd
have traffic jams in the sky, and also I imagine lots of collisions and the
resulting crashes. What a way to go, obliterated by a falling body.
raymo
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianh72 View Post
It might take a few years before the range / convenience matches petrol / diesel, but be honest - how many of us can say hand-on-heart that an EV with a range of 200 km or more, and overnight trickle-charging, would not be viable for their week-day commuter / shopper, even if they "need" petrol / diesel for their weekender?
I love big car noise. I love the smell of burnt 2stroke exhaust, and love burnt ethanol more. I probably sound like the last person your ideas could apply to.

But, I must admit - 6 days out of every 7, your idea above is spot on for my situation.

I just hope they make an EV ute. I'm lost without it, even if my trips are short.
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:58 PM
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Don't forget 1 thing folks: as soon as the Petrodollar boys feel the pinch from electric cars, they may be willing to forego some of their profit margin, in the fight for market share. Read lower petrol prices. Now it's not a factor, but in 5-10 years? Any clever ones may also have invested/divested in electric.

Best
JA
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:29 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
I just hope they make an EV ute. I'm lost without it, even if my trips are short.
They're coming:
https://www.drive.com.au/news/rivian...stralia-121205
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:36 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Any clever ones may also have invested/divested in electric.
The smart oil / gas companies have already re-branded themselves as "energy" companies, and renewables are a big (and growing) part of their business. (Oil / gas still forms the lion's share of their current revenue, but they can see where the world is headed. Now, if only we could get the Australian and American governments to see this!)

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corpora...le-energy.html

https://www.shell.com.au/energy-and-...gy-future.html
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:53 PM
glend (Glen)
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A comment on how long lithium ion batteries can last. Experience with electric bikes, which might have a typical 36V 10AH li-ion battery, show that you can double the lifespan of the battery simply by not fully charging it. Max charging causes plating of the negative electrode, limiting its potential life span. By undercharging you can double the number of charging cycles you get out of the battery, as you reduce negative electrode plating risk.
So in the case of 36V 10AH battery pack, which typically could be expected to function well for 400 charge cycles, you can up the life span to 800 charge cycles by under charging. If the 18650 Lithium ion cells have a max voltage of 4.2V, just stop charging at say 3.9V.
You also don't need to charge after every trip, provided you still have enough battery charge distance for your next trip,etc. Plugging in the charger after every trip to top it up has reduced life span implications. This should be true of electric car batteries as well as bikes as the chemistry is exactly the same.
Now the vendors don't tell you this because they want to sell you a new battery in a few years.
By association, you could possible double the life of your home Power Wall battery system by finding a way (hack circuit) to stop the charge cycle before negative electrode plating becomes an issue.

Utube video on this subject here:

https://youtu.be/zQ_y3nKU360

This document explains the optimal cell charge voltage for life extension is 3.92V.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:41 PM
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Probably next time around. But I want to keep my year 2000 Landcruiser 100 on the road as long as possible because I can't afford a new car now I have semi retired. Apart from that it is the only car I have owned for 15 years that I have never wanted to change apart from the running costs. Comfortable to drive to work 3 days a week, 2 trips across the Simpson, Cape York and a lot of other places in between. It just does anything I have wanted it to do without any fuss and without breaking down. Give me an electric car with a long range battery that does 1200km between charges and I am in.

Last edited by rrussell1962; 12-08-2019 at 03:52 PM.
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  #49  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by julianh72 View Post
Thankyou for that. I'm a big fan of hub motor EVs. If they could make a single cab, flat tray, spartan interior, satin black model, for $30,000AUD, I'd be in.

I guess it'll be my retirement car (I'm 40 this year).
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by raymo View Post
Alex, can you imagine how big the wings would have to be to support our weight, not to mention the enormous muscles needed to drive them; you'd
have traffic jams in the sky, and also I imagine lots of collisions and the
resulting crashes. What a way to go, obliterated by a falling body.
raymo
You are right. Not only should they give us wings but reduce the size of humans to about one foot tall and that way resources would go five times as far...the average has could take division into six floors horizontally and you would get probably six unites each floor...and probably we wouldn't need wings as we could ride eagles.
Alex
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  #51  
Old 17-08-2019, 03:38 PM
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My current ICE car will be my last ICE car. Next car will be BEV when they come down in price.


That will likely be the last car I own as transport as a service becomes more popular in a decade or two.


Regarding an earlier comment in this thread rubbishing the ability of BEV's in taxis, they are actually the perfect vehicle to use, and some chinese cities are already almost 100% EV taxis, Shenzen had 22000 electric taxis at the end of 2018
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  #52  
Old 17-08-2019, 05:31 PM
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Would love to but there aren't that many places to charge them yet. And it would definitely be not practical when driving out west to dark places when you need mileage, time constraint and reliability. Maybe one day when they have as many boost charging stations as maccas.
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  #53  
Old 17-08-2019, 06:06 PM
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Not while petrol is still available, I like my manual v8 too much. Living in a country town with 80 and 100k zones minutes from my house, and not a lot of traffic, driving is still fun and economy is not too bad either without all that city stop start driving.
Rick
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  #54  
Old 17-08-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal View Post
Regarding an earlier comment in this thread rubbishing the ability of BEV's in taxis, they are actually the perfect vehicle to use, and some chinese cities are already almost 100% EV taxis, Shenzen had 22000 electric taxis at the end of 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeniSkunk View Post
With how short their range is, right off the bat, would an EV be able to be used as a taxi, considering how many KM they do every day?
With how short battery life is, and how heavy a daily workload a taxi has to do, could you see a taxi EV managing even half the distance it could do new, 5 years after purchase?
In my thinking BEV taxis would not be viable, I was looking 2 points.
How far a taxi would drive over the course of a day, and have to do so on a single overnight charge. And that's if the taxi was being run by an individual owner/license holder. Most taxis are run by license holder investors, who hold a bunch of licenses and taxis, and run them 24/7, with maybe 15 min between shifts and driver changes. So how would those taxis get enough time to be charged when there's never enough time for that even on a fast charger?
How much shorter a distance the same taxi would only be able to manage, 5 or more years down the track, as the battery is less able to manage a full charge?
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  #55  
Old 17-08-2019, 06:50 PM
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I don't see charging as a problem in the long term..we could have battery exchange..with a little bit of thinking it would be easy to come up with a battery exchange system that could even take less time than filling with petrol.
And why not have wired in the road so cars could pick up power as they travel along. When everything is electric wires in all the main roads is easy to do...quick change batteries is easy...heck if you sat down for an hour you could invent a system...heck you could change them while still travelling if you want.

Alex
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  #56  
Old 17-08-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JeniSkunk View Post
In my thinking BEV taxis would not be viable, I was looking 2 points.
How far a taxi would drive over the course of a day, and have to do so on a single overnight charge. And that's if the taxi was being run by an individual owner/license holder. Most taxis are run by license holder investors, who hold a bunch of licenses and taxis, and run them 24/7, with maybe 15 min between shifts and driver changes. So how would those taxis get enough time to be charged when there's never enough time for that even on a fast charger?
How much shorter a distance the same taxi would only be able to manage, 5 or more years down the track, as the battery is less able to manage a full charge?

Depends on city, but taxi's average maybe 100,000km/year, which if driven 7 days a week is about 270km/day. Any decent EV with even a moderate battery pack of will drive that much in a day no problem.


I don't understand your reasonoing for fastcharge not being viable for a 24/7 operation. Can you explain how it is not viable?


With regards to range, this old article from 2017 is about a tesla taxi driver that clocked up 400,000km and still has 93% of his range. BYD claims that their cars can do 1 million kilometers and still retain 75% of their range.
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  #57  
Old 17-08-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I don't see charging as a problem in the long term..we could have battery exchange..with a little bit of thinking it would be easy to come up with a battery exchange system that could even take less time than filling with petrol.
And why not have wired in the road so cars could pick up power as they travel along. When everything is electric wires in all the main roads is easy to do...quick change batteries is easy...heck if you sat down for an hour you could invent a system...heck you could change them while still travelling if you want.

Alex

We already have wireless charging Alex
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  #58  
Old 17-08-2019, 09:32 PM
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We already have wireless charging Alex
Yes if they can charge a tooth brush that way you would think you could have something in the road like that.

alex
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  #59  
Old 18-08-2019, 03:17 AM
glend (Glen)
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Yes if they can charge a tooth brush that way you would think you could have something in the road like that.

alex
Oh come on! Who is going to pay for installing that? Fantasy land.
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  #60  
Old 18-08-2019, 05:52 AM
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Oh come on! Who is going to pay for installing that? Fantasy land.
I think they call them consumers
Alex
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