Thread: Southern Cross
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Old 20-07-2020, 08:42 AM
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Sunfish (Ray)
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I am quite happy to hear about the Javanese and to hear that they had a large and powerful civilisation , like the Cambodians and Mayan and Indian before them. Interesting and logical as island states that they were such a seafaring force before the others came along and then the Europeans. Probably not much interested in science but rather the projection of power. If they recorded the position of the stars in some detail in their own script from the their landfalls that would be more Interesting as did the Arab seafarers.

My point really is that visiting the Antarctic peninsula, although interesting, is not discovering the continent of Antarctica as we know it in the current world. The peninsula is relatively benign and not as isolated as most of the continent. It is like bumping into the tip of Cape York and saying that we discovered or know anything about Australia. It took centuries of experience in the ice to explore the antarctica we know..




Quote:
Originally Posted by precessed View Post
There is language and DNA evidence for 'Indonesian' settlement in Madagascar around 8th cent. They had ships with outrigger stabilisers.

"According to the (Javanese) Mūla Malurung inscription issued in 1255: ‘His Majesty [Rājasa] served as a single parasol for the world, the whole island of Java as well as the other islands’, the parasol being a common symbol of sovereignty in Southeast Asia and the Indian ocean world...After all this, can we say that Majapahit was really an empire? The answer depends on what we mean by the word. If being an empire means the direct administration of provinces, permanent military occupation, and the imposition of political and cultural norms over a wide area, then Majapahit was probably not an empire. Javanese rule over the other islands was too intermittent and too indirect to qualify by those criteria. But if being an empire means the projection of military power at will, formal acknowledgement of overlordship by vassals and third parties, and the regular delivery of tribute to the centre, then Java’s relationship to the archipelago can well be considered an imperial one, especially during the late Singhasari (1268–92) and middle Majapahit (1330–1400) periods. "
_ Was Majapahit really an empire? - New Mandala.

(The Javanese) are all men very experienced in the art of navigation, .. formerly navigated to the Cape of Good Hope and were in communication with the east coast of the island of San Laurenzo (Madagascar),.
— Diogo de Couto, Decada Quarta da Asia . (1645) Lisbon: Regia Officina Typografica, 1778-88. Reprint, Lisbon, 1974.

"In 1322 friar Odoric of Pordenone reported an archipelagic vessel that carried at least 700 people. The Majapahit Empire used
jongs as its main source of naval power. The largest number of jong deployed in an expedition is about 400 jongs when Majapahit
attacked Pasai Sumatra. Each ship was about 230 ft long, and could carry 600 men. The large ones could carry 800
men and were 300ft. The ships were armed with 3 meter long cannons. In 1357, the Sunda king and the royal family arrived in
Majapahit in a fleet of 200 large ships and 2000 smaller vessels." _ Djong. wikipedia.

The possible sailing to Antarctic , evidently at the tip of South America , would indicate a purposeful projection of this schema of royalty. Probably both the Javanese rulers of Madagascar and the Majapahit rulers saw value in overlordship. Democratic independence was not their motive. In theory at least , the southern hemisphere and a slice of the north was the royal domain. Putting a boot on Antarctica was probably a giant leap for mankind , the Javanese .

"The Javanese people think and believe in their messianic mission that their culture is to javanize other people outside their realm . In their delicacy, being Javanese is to adopt and practice the Javanese custom and tradition in terms of mature, polite, subtle, and refined." _Bagoes Wiryomartono 2016.

The exact geography , winter ice extent and solstice sun elevation at the tip of west Antactic peninsula ( eg James Ross island) indicate a genuine experience by trained navigators in a substantial ship. .
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