Windows 8

[acropolite]

Thought I'd give Win 8 a spin, one way or another I have to get my head around it as I'll encounter it sooner or later in my day to day work.

I parted with the reasonable sum of $48 for an upgrade copy and installed tonight. I was a little nervous given the low price for the OS.

Big mistake, should have run it up on a new hdd to preserve my old Win7 install, my first impression is that Win 8 is a dud, they've stripped one of the most intuitive and efficient bits out of the OS, that is the start menu and programs interface and replaced it with the "Metro" interface, which I can only describe as a dogs breakfast. Microsoft have really stuffed up on this one IMO.
A quick search reveals a lot of adverse comment on the forums.

To add insult to injury my backup of the old install can't be seen by the recovery disk, it's on a 2tb usb drive (the drive recommended by the win7 backup utility), for some stupid reason the recovery disk will only see 1Gb drives. No big deal, I'll find a work around but I hate wasting time on something that should just work.

I'll be rolling back to Win7 as soon as I work out how to get my backup image loaded.

[fauxpas]

I suggest anyone considering win8 should watch half a dozen youtube reviews first to get a grasp of the differences and also whether its for them...

There's as many positive reviews of 8 as there are negative so watching as many as possible will give the avg punter a good idea...

I like the idea of it crossing platforms, pc/slate/laptop/phone... I can see the 'why' they made it that way...

Once slates and laptops with touchscreens become 'normal' and inexpensive, win8 will come into its own...

I'll go 8 when I upgrade my primary drive to ssd...

[Barrykgerdes]

From what I see of it. Windows 8 is aimed at the market dominated by Apple that has made Apple so rich at the expense of Microsoft. This market is dominated by computer users who know nothing about the works of a computer, Probably 90% of the world's population but like the simple icon interface that allows them the versatility they require for the tasks they assign to it.

It is not going to suit the average "nerd" who likes to know what is going on so he can make a computer do what he wants.

I will certainly not "upgrade" my Win 7 (I still prefer XP) but that does not mean I won't buy a dedicated laptop with Win 8 on it to learn what it can do.

With all the publicity it is getting I believe the market that Microsoft has aimed at will snatch back a lot of the business that they have lost to the other tablet O/S.

Barry

PS I get around the image backup by using a multi boot system where I save disk images on the alternate platform. Thus returning a backup copy does not require the new system. B.G

[multiweb]

It's certainly very different and it's going to take a lot of retraining with the new interface. I tested the first batch last year and although it was slower than the latest I didn't dislike it. It's a new way of doing things.

[acropolite]

A new, less efficient way of doing things with any sort of learning curve isn't my cup of tea, I don't have time to waste on things that don't work easily and efficiently.

Apparently there was the option (registry hack) of using the Start menu on the beta version but that's been stripped from the final release. Speed wise it seems faster, but the launch interface sucks bigtime.

Luckily I managed to sucessfully restore my Win7 image including the nice widgets (currency conversion, weather, calendar and sticky notes) I had on my second screen which Win8 obliterated.

If anyone is thinking of installing the upgrade I'd suggest that you do a backup image and system recovery disk of your old Win7 install before starting the upgrade. (on an external HDD make sure it's not over 1tB otherwise the recovery disk won't see it)

[kustard]

I played around with the dev version of Win8 a while back and I wasn't impressed. Personally I think it looks like rubbish and it just felt clunky.

Cheers,
Simon

[multiweb]

That's a given. You should have an image of your system at all times. Acronis is ideal. Or at least clone your Boot drive. Another way to test things is to run them in a virtual environment. Which I did with WIN8.

[supernova1965]

I have tried it I for around 4 hours decided I hated it I reckon it is another ME/VISTA DISASTER. Microsoft seem do do a good OS then a disaster it seems to be a cycle they are stuck in:screwy:

[Barrykgerdes]

Before you try out any new O/S on your main computer two essential programs you need are Drive Image and Partition Magic. However when they were taken over by Norton there were no more up updates. Consequently they to not work on Win 7 and later.

The best Win 7 replacements are Acronis and Easeus. I found Acronis not quite so easy to use as Drive Image but still an excellent program

If you have a multiboot system with Win XP you can still make images of Win 7 drives using Drive Image

Another program essential if you use Win 7 is "easyBCD2.1.2.exe" other than the one included with Win 7. to correct any problems that can occur when replacing Win 7

Barry

[acropolite]

FWIW the Win7 Drive image backup utility/recovery disk option works perfectly.

[supernova1965]

My favourite image software is ghost

[marki]

Installed it yesterday along with a SSD drive, boots in 15 secs :D. The front screen (new version of start menu) is a little annoying but just remember the corners are really important and it balances out, a touch screen would make it better. Took about 1/2 an hour to find my way around and set things up, my desktop included, now its business as usual as everything is still there. Instead of clicking on the start menu you just put the mouse in the top RH corner and click from there. I start most programs from my desktop in any case. Only problem was not being able to install CS4 (adobe installer at fault) and have had to upgrade to CS6, lucky I am eligible for the education version. If I had to pay full price I would be pretty p@$$&d. Curiously a number of programs that I had trouble installing on win7 and were unstable when running went on without a hitch on win 8 and run well. Would have thought it would have been the other way around. All my printer/scanner/camera drivers etc all work no problem and they have been around for a long while now. Still to form an overall opinion but it certainly is not another Vista.

Mark

[Tandum]

Going by my last encounter with it, it would be best with a multitouch monitor. I had a look around my suppliers and apart from single touch screens for supermarkets, the only one I could see was by Dell for about $335 -> http://www.cnet.com.au/dell-st2220t-339315501.htm

I'll leave win8 be for now and see if it goes away :)

[allan gould]

Robin
Have a look here . I purchased a touch screen from them and turned my laptop into a touch screen and it works very well at night instead of using the keyboard.
Allan
http://www.cyclotouch.com.au/

[Tandum]

I'm guessing you got a single touch kit Allan. That's not a bad price for a 15" laptop screen.
The multitouch kit lets you resize by pinching like you do on an iPhone and the price there for a 24" is starting to get up.
Give it 6 months and most monitors will be multitouch, dell just had a head start :)

[GTB_an_Owl]

I recently bought a toshiba laptop with win7 installed.

I was therefore entitled to the win8 upgrade for $15
I registered with Microsoft and duly went throught the payment process yesterday

So $15 for the download and i thought the DVD would come in handy - shock! horror! - $25-49 for the DVD

The blurb said enter your discount voucher so you can get the upgrade for the $15, which i did - well i thought i did
Note in the blurb said " the full price of $49 will show on the Cart - but you will only be charged the $15
WELL! - when i see the paypal receipt - i have been charged the FULL amount (not happy Jan!)

The download started immediately (would have been nice for me to pick when and if i wanted to download the damn thing, especially as how i ordered the DVD)

So i tried to install on my new Toshiba laptop
Three hours later after a couple of install hiccups and having to un-install TEN incompatible programs or Drivers (including USB3 drivers ???) before it would start the install.

So the install finally completes and i explore a bit - bit confusing at first - but i started to get the hang of it

So lets see if we can get on the net - I should have known - SORRY WE CAN NOT DISPLAY THE WEB PAGE

WHAT IS IT WITH MICROSOFT FIRST RELEASES AND INTERNET CONNECTION PROBLEMS

So i troubleshoot for the cause - try everything i know and a few tips from the net on my other computer
I can ping numerically - i can ping by name - all else says CONNECTED
MSN says key port problem
after a couple of hours i give up - there is a "Refresh" option - WONDERFUL!
the Refresh finishes and it restarts
STILL NO INTERNET PAGES - just the same as before

BUT WAIT! - there seems to be less icons on my desktop and a new folder

What does the folder contain you might ask

ALL THE BLOODY PROGRAMS THAT THE REFRESH UN-INSTALLED

what else did it un-install? - Why half the drivers including the ethernet and wireless drivers

have a guess who is glad he made the Win7 restore disks?

ME! ME! ME!

geoff

[acropolite]

I found that having to move the mouse to a corner, then select one of a number of options to be eventually presented with a program list that was larger than the screen was just plain unproductive, inefficient and slow.

Until they bring back the option to reinstate the start menu and it's associated functions I suspect that the OS will be regarded as a dud. Whether MS realise it or not the Start menu and associated launch facilities is efficient, fast to use and logical.

Faster starts mean nothing if the launch mechanism of the OS is disfunctional.

[netwolf]

Geoff, I too have registered for the Win8 upgrade when i got my Asus laptop recently.
So can you please confirm if you respond to the email and begin the purchase process you cant stop the install of Win8?
I was hopping to pay for it and do the upgrade later.

[GTB_an_Owl]

I didn't see any option to download later Fahim

after i completed the payment it started to download

i believe your registration is valid to January?

don't try to pay/download till you actually want to

geoff

[OICURMT]

Saw one of these in action at SEAAOC in Darwin on a 42" TV... worked perfectly on an interactive 3D model of an offshore subsea oil and gas development.

I was impressed... :thumbsup:

[marki]

Sorry Phil I cannot agree with you here. For the start menu in Win 7 you have to press the mouse button, shift the cursor to all programs and click again then scroll down the list and click again to execute the file. On win 8 you move the mouse to the top RH corner, click on the start icon and all your programs are there (including all the ones that used to be buried in win 7) and its a simple mouse click to execute, at least the same as win7 if not better depending on your preferences. I used to have all my programs in win 7 on the desktop (in neat folders) as I hated the start menu. Win 8 is meant to run on a touch screen, I got one and its opened up a whole new way of doing things, love it. After 4 days to get used to the differences I am really liking this new format and when I have to use Win 7 at work it feels slow, clunky and old fashioned. Next year all our machines at work (including all 1575 of the kids laptops) will be moving to Win8 and that's why I installed it (to get a head start on the little buggers). Glad I did.

Mark

[Poita]

[QUOTE=Barrykgerdes;908953]This market is dominated by computer users who know nothing about the works of a computer, Probably 90% of the world's population but like the simple icon interface that allows them the versatility they require for the tasks they assign to it.

It is not going to suit the average "nerd" who likes to know what is going on so he can make a computer do what he wants.
/QUOTE]

Then there are those of us that choose OSX precisely so we can get under the hood and make the computer do things we want, in ways windows can't.
OSX gives you a Unix shell via terminal, applescript (http://www.macosxautomation.com/applescript/) and automator.
http://www.macresearch.org/tutorial_applescript_for_scientists _part_i
http://www.maclife.com/article/features/15_automator_and_applescripts_you_c an%E2%80%99t_live_without

I'm struggling with Windows8 at the moment getting it ready for work, it is interesting to say the least, but not very much like OSX so far.

[Osirisra]

The start menu as we knew it is dead, it's a old paradigm that only Windows has been holding onto and now all the users that are stuck in their ways are up in arms, sorry folks, you are going to have to learn to evolve. I'm not looking to all the complaining from my customers tho that's for sure :)

Agreed Windows 8 is bit of a mess and needs some refining but at least MS is trying to get with the times like OSX and Ubuntu has been for ages.

The idea off the PC doing all the work is also rapidly evolving to a more shared device oriented and connected online experience so it will be interesting to see what's around the courner.

[netwolf]

How about astro software compatibility? It would be great to get a list of what people have tried and is working.

[Tandum]

There should not be a lot of difference from Win7 Fahim.
ASAIK the real changes are the user interface and the USB stack.

[marki]

Here is what I have successfully loaded so far.

Alignmaster
ASCOM 6
CCD calculator
CCD Inspector 2.5.3
CCD Stack 2
CCDops
Focus Max
MaximDL ver 5.18 and 5.23 (updated)
Maxpoint
Mount Hub Pro
Nexremote
Pempro ver2
Pixinsight
Registar
Starry Night pro plus 6
Sky Pro X

All work fine.


The only problem I had so far was with Adobe CS4, the installer would not run (Adobe's fault). Could be a big hassle for some but if you have the time/expertise/patience to work through it you may have a win not sure if it is possible. I couldn't be stuffed messing around and upgraded to CS6 which went straight on no worries. All my plugins/ATN files work perfectly in CS6 just like they used to in CS4 (astronomy tools V 1.6, gradient xterminator, noise ninja, topaz, HLVG etc). Strangest thing is I loaded an old copy of Adobe illustrator (ver 9,,,,talking 1990's) which would not work properly in win 7 even in compatibility mode yet it loaded straight onto win 8 without any problem and runs perfectly. Also my Canon DSLR drivers are all working again (stopped working in win 7) as does my scanner which also stopped working in win 7 (tried to fix many times with no luck) so I am pretty happy as I have not had to upgrade any hardware besides the SSD which I chose to do.

Mark

[netwolf]

marki, thanks thats a long list. Good to know all that works especially Pixinsight. The other two i would like to hear about are Nebulosity and PHD also Sequence generator pro.

[LewisM]

Took me a decade to "upgrade" from XP to 7... I like letting OS's settle for a while before installing them. I like 7 when you take control of it (change the admin settings so the annoying "admin priveleges" pop up does not happen etc. Basically, I run 7 like XP :). My wife has Vista on one of her 2 laptops, and it's an absolute NIGHTMARE. AT least 7 seems like a combination of the good of XP with the good of Vista (not much!).

I won't go to 8 for at least 3 years, if then. Let it settle, let it have SP's, and then MAYBE. Tried it on a friends computer, and it REMINDED me of Mac... which means I had an instant aversion to it. Big W@NK factor to Win 8.

[marki]

Talking to the tech's at school today who have been attending all the Microsoft seminars and courses etc getting ready to set up our network for windows 8 (big job over 2000 computers) next year and one made a very interesting comment. They were told win 8 was only half way to where Microsoft wanted it to be and that they deliberately left in bits like being able to pin program quick starts to the task bar etc as they did not want to alienate the "faithful" too much at first. They aim to move entirely over to an apple type setup so the diehards better hope their XP/win 7 laptops and PC's last for the rest of their lives or learn to write code so they can update drivers etc for new gear. Of course they could always come to terms with the passing of the dinosaurs, embrace change and get with the program :P:D. I have a feeling it is going to be a very frustrating experience for those who don't especially support with drivers etc.

Mark

Mark

[Barrykgerdes]

Did they really say that they will be moving to an Apple like system. The Lawyers will love that. They will spend the next few years sueing each other.

I won't be changing to Win 8 or its future derivatives although I will most certainly have it on a computer so that I can utilise any decent advances it has.

I still use DOS whenever I can. It's a lot of fun with the command line although I am quite happy with XP for most tasks. 90% of the use I give my computers is based on programs I wrote in Basic to do mundane tasks and writing reports.

Barry

[multiweb]

Serious?.... I had a feeling that it was too good to be true. No more PC clones. Everything will be hot glued in a s||t pancake style tablet, sorry...iPad style. No more control over our file systems. You want the new OS to run on your old tablet? Tough titties. You'll have to buy a new tablet because the old one is not 'compatible'. :lol: What's the end of life for Win7? :question: Hopefully we get another 5 yrs out of it. :P

[Colin_Fraser]

Microsoft seem to be digging a huge hole for themselves.
For 30 years they have been trying to build a stable OS but seem to have failed on each attempt. They appear to get close to something manageable that the end user gets comfortable with, then, because they cannot fix the bugs they bring out a new OS.The cycle continues.
If they keep going the way they are and if the stories about them wanting to have an Apple type interface, people will move to Apple because it is an OS that works.

[multiweb]

Don't think so. Apple like Microsoft has its issues with OS and updates. There are horror stories on both sides. Problem with Apple is that their devices are more like black boxes now. Not scalable or plug'nplay. iPhones and iPods were getting jail broken very early in the process and still are because they're restrictive in the way they want you to use their devices. Microsoft on the other end is still much more open, that's probably why there are more security issues and attacks on their OSs than any others. But this seems to be changing. Every new OS is getting tighter. If the industry moves towards an Apple style model I think it's only going to encourage more jailbreak. I think it's bad to restrict people in using devices only a certain way. The point of having a computer and OS is to be able to customise both hardware and functionality. That's what makes kids smarter and more creative. Not pushing buttons and sliding touch screens on online social media.

[LewisM]

Move to Apple style and I give up and go back to the stone age :)

Only apples in this household are the fruit kind, and it intends staying that way.

[Colin_Fraser]

Sorry, my mistake. I did not know that was the point in having a computer :confused2:

[marki]

As in interface (eg metro which is not copyrighted by apple even if they think they have sole rights to it). Win 8 has been by far the most user friendly out of the box OS I have ever had from Microsoft (and I have had them all including several versions of DOS). No major drama's in loading software (except CS4 but the fault lies with the adobe installer), drivers etc and thus far everything works. It's faster and they finally got rid of the start button setup which I hated with a passion.

Mark

[marki]

If anything Marc it seems to have gone the other way as I see it right now :shrug:. You have all the freedom you ever had and then some. How long will your PC/notebook last :D. Seriously Win 8 is fine and when the faithful get over their shock I am sure most will come to the same conclusion. Win 7 was okay as far as Microsoft OS go but I certainly hate to think that was the best they could do as I had my fair share of hassles with it. For me I have to use win 8 for work so I had better just get on with it, yes ???

Mark

[marki]

Not a big fan of the apple business model myself, too restrictive for me.

Mark

[multiweb]

Well if I spend a couple of Ks on a machine it's nice to know that I can open it up, change the HD to a bigger size or faster volume, maybe upgrade the graphic card and video drivers down the road or add an extra drive. Or maybe get an external optical drive without having to pay through the nose for a cable to connect it from the 'Microsoft Shop'. You know, basics things. Having options to customise MY pc with cards from various unrelated manufacturers?... If this flexibility and freedom are all taken away then what's the point? Is a PC going to become a consumable black box. Change it all when you have to or when they tell you to becaused it's expired next month with the new OS upgrade? Or something you can't legally open like a beefed up XBOX?

Back in the days I loved Apple Scripts and the way it integrated with the OS. I also think Apple user interface designs and functionality are second to none. The Apple II E was revolutionary already. But I always liked the modularity of PCs hardware. If we lose that we're in trouble. Our wallet's going to suffer.

[multiweb]

I have no doubt they'll get Win 8 right. Personally I like Win7 a lot. Vista was a miss and XP was great. As long as the PC hardware format we all use doesn't change to another chopping board device. ;)

[Barrykgerdes]

It's not the start button that is a nuisance. It's the stop button that is the problem. I had an urgent job (look up some stored data) but I required a restart. I could not stop because I had inadvertantly left the auto updates on. I got my computer back twenty minutes later!

Barry

[mithrandir]

Windows 8 is a great reason to run Linux. All we need is a few more software writers to port their apps to it.
As for Apple, my iDevices are just that. I don't expect them to be upgradable.

[Colin_Fraser]

Ah the good old days. Spent many hours at the swap meets & building or upgrading my PC. I don't think that pleasure will disappear at all. The main problem is the OS you have to use. You can still tinker with the machine but unless you can get drivers you are pretty much behind the 8 ball.
Microsoft change so often, hardware developers have a hard time keeping up. Not only do they have to make 32 bit and 64 bit drivers, they have to test these drivers on software that is flawed. They cannot afford to re-write drivers for older hardware so the end user suffers again.

Just read somewhere that Microsoft have made over 100,000 changes to Windows 8 since the evaluation copy was made available.

[marki]

Turn them off and only install the updates you want when you want. Too many problems if you leave it to its own devices.

[marki]

I would have thought that was a good thing. They put out the beta version for a broad spectrum of people willing to test then took the testers input to refine the product. Now I have not owned a Mac PC but I have been an IPAD user for about 18 months and in that time apple have had 3 major OS changes (OS4, OS5 and now OS6) let alone the small updates between the big ones (OS 4.1, 5.1 ect etc). This morning I downloaded OS 6.1, on the download description it stated "fixes known bugs" and there are quite a few so neither format is maintenance free :D. In 18 months I have also seen the hardware change from Ipad II to Ipad III (I have both) and no doubt there is a Ipad IV just around the corner. It is not possible to update the hardware so you just have to suck eggs and buy the new version if you want all the bells and whistles and the ability to run the latest apps in all their glory (yes I use it for gaming). Apple also encourage the same ideology with their PC's, not so with the PC format, just rip the old bits out and replace when required at fraction the cost of a new machine depending on what you buy ( I have often gone back to the bare case and started again). If Apple is really serious about competing in the PC market they will have to offer the end user the ability to do the same but that would go against their business model so they won't do it. That's why Mac PC's have always and will always remain a curiosity for a small number of avid supporters and this is why they have to make the vast majority of their income from other bits and bobs like the iphone, ipad and ipod lines. As long as the PC format with its total flexibility remains, apple will stay where they are in the PC market and I am dam sure the PC crew know that and will do nothing to restrict the freedom PC users have over Mac users. You can upgrade some bits on a Mac PC but be prepared to pay lots of $$$$$ compared to what a PC user would pay for similar changes. Apples major income earners (ipad, iphone etc) are now being seriously challenged by android and windows 8 based phones and tablets (the samsungs are very very good in both formats, I used a Samsung tablet yesterday running windows 8, wow made the ipad III look like a toy, even has MS office on board and the full freedom of a PC). If Microsoft get this metro concept working really well through windows 8 and beyond it will be very bad for apple.

Mark

[multiweb]

The android market is fast growing. I too think Apple's days are numbered. Microsoft did the same thing to SONY in the gaming arena. The XBOX took over the PS3. They're slow to move but when they gain momentum they bulldoze everything in their path. Win8 is just the beginning IMHO.

[Barrykgerdes]

That is what I do. But for some reason that I had not noticed they turned auto back on and I did not find out till I got the dreaded message "Downloading and installing updates Don't turn your machine off"

There were 57000 odd changes to make. The first 1000 took about 10 mins and I was about to disconnect the power as the projected time was longer than reformatting and installing Win-7 but the update went faster from there and completed in about 20 mins.

Barry

[marki]

I don't know about their dismiss Marc but they will be in serious trouble under their current model. We are trying out different systems for work next year to replace our laptops as their 3 year lease is up and had several tablets to play with. The most impressive was the Samsung with great functionality, feel, looks, big screen and so on. It has a battery on board plus one in the docking station which also doubles as a keyboard and also doubles battery life. You have total freedom to use it as a laptop or pull the screen free and walk around the room using it like a tablet. The SSD allows windows 8 and MS office etc etc to be loaded so it is no different to a PC/laptop in use with full touch control, it is also lightning quick. We can connect wirelessly to our network, projectors and smart boards and walk around the room with the tablet whilst teaching, fantastic :D. The only hiccup at this stage is connecting the audio which still needs a cable but that will only affect movies so no big deal though the techs are working on a wireless solution. My next tablet will not be an Ipad that's for sure. I have always found the OS on the Ipad to be restrictive and the available apps to be mickey mouse when it comes to doing serious work which is why I have pretty much used it exclusively to play games. The lack of USB ports has also been a killer for serious work let alone peripherals.

Mark

[multiweb]

No I wouldn't dismiss them but they missed the boat big time IMHO. The iPhone/iPad was a terrific concept with a revolutionary and intuitive interface. What they do best. Instead of consolidating their lead they tried to capitalize on their monopoly. Now the peloton has caught back up to them. Competition was probably more willing to give a little more flexibility to the end user. I mean there was a need for it. How many iPod got jail broken in the first few months. Didn't they get the message? C'mon.... :P

[marki]

Okay I have found a troublesome astro program, CCDsoft V5. Software bisque have a new .exe file available for download on their website but you still need to run as administrator to get it to boot without error messages ("failed to update registry, try reg edit) which I loaded this morning. Yesterday it seemed to lose functionality the more times I booted and eventually opening the camera window caused it to crash. No doubt SB are working on a cure, at least I hope so as having to run as administrator is not acceptable for a new product bought 2 days ago. I have posted on their website so will wait and see.

Mark

[MrB]

Actually, Nintendo is back on top. Yes Xbox360 is ahead of the PS3, but only just. The war is still on.

Sixth gen console:
1. PlayStation 2 – 150 million as of 31 January 2011
2. Xbox – 24 million as of 10 May 2006
3. GameCube – 21.74 million as of 30 September 2012
4. Dreamcast - 10.6 million as of 6 July 2002

7th Gen Console:
1. Wii – 97.18 million as of 30 September 2012
2. Xbox 360 – 67.2 million as of 31 March 2012
3. PlayStation 3 – 63.9 million as of 31 March 2012

[marki]

Might be interesting as win 8 has the xbox app on it so all games produced for xbox will now run on PC and are easily bought from the app store. As the OS becomes the norm those numbers may shift some.

Mark

[andrew2008]

I've just watched a few videos and really like the look of it.

[Exfso]

Good Old Microslough, we the public will be the beta testers as usual, and eventually find most of the bugs, yeah it will take years, but we are used to that. Then presto when it is nearly acceptible, up will pop another OS to wade through. No thank you!!:screwy:

[sanusense]

Windows8 may come with different features, but i really don't like this software i was unable to find start button for a hour.

[fauxpas]

Gotta watch a few youtube vids before going 8...

I got my family watching to prep them...

[supernova1965]

I think M/S have made a big misstep with this OS they should be keeping Win8 for the tablet and keep Win7 for the PC. It just sucks on a PC even with a touch screen it's just not for a main Computer experience. INMHO

[pluto]

I played with it the other day on a computer at work and it seemed fine. The tiles thing is ok as a start screen and when you need to do something more important than check the weather you just press <windows key>+d to go to a normal desktop which seemed pretty much the same as win7. It seems to me the only difference in terms of working in the normal windows desktop mode is that there is no start menu, but I guess I never really used that anyway as I arrange my shortcuts in desktop folders or on the quick-launch bar thing.

[DJDD]

excellent- i want to play Halo 4 on PC! :D

[marki]

All this talk about the start menu is interesting, you just put the cursor in the bottom left hand corner and a tile pops out, simply left click and you have it in the form of a tiled screen, much the same as it always was just no button. You can also move the cursor to the top right hand corner and access it from there. Instead of having a pile of open windows crowding up your task bar they now do not show until you move the cursor to the top left hand corner and they pop out from the side of the screen in the form of tiles, pretty straight forward I think. If you are using a touch screen you can do the same as all you need to do is move your finger or stylus to the relevant side of the screen and simply drag towards the centre and the tiles pop out for use. For left mouse button function simply tap the screen, for right mouse button tap and hold for a sec and the menu appears. To close a window simply touch the top centre of the screen and drag towards the bottom. As for the big mistake in releasing this OS, better get used to it as it is where they are heading. I like it as does just about everyone else I know who is using the OS on a daily basis. Negative comments and postulations by those who are not using win 8 as an OS are about as useful as a poke in the eye with a stick and mostly totally irrelevant ranting. I find it very easy to navigate around and there are so many more possibilities whilst retaining access to all the important bits that were always a feature of previous windows OS, you are in no way locked out.

For those using CCDsoft V5 the cure for the problem opening the program (post#50) is straight forward. Download the latest .exe file in the form of a zip file (about 3 MB) from the SB support download page, extract and replace the existing .exe file in programs(x86) ---> software Bisque ---> CCDsoft. Once placed in the folder the right click on the new .exe file --->properties ---> check the tick box to run program as administrator. Works perfectly after that but a bit of a bother and Bisque really need to sort this out though they state it is the same problem they had when win7 was released, hmmm.

Mark

[fauxpas]

That's why people need to watch some youtube vids before playing with W8...

All normal apps like word and web browsing is done on a normal windows desktop... All they did was expand the start button to become an elaborate launch screen...

Desktop, laptop, tablet, phone... all using the one OS is genius...

Even a laptop with windows 8 drivers that use the touchpad like a touchscreen is great...

I have a new budget asus laptop that had W7 but now upgraded to W8 with SSD and 8gig ram... Boots in 38sec (with all apps and antivirus installed)...

I showed my partner and her mother and they were both sold on W8 in 60sec...

[marki]

You can still have several windows open at once and resize them so all are visible on the desktop and the resized windows all have their menu bars so not sure what the problem is? Besides the differences I have outlined in previous posts e.g. no start button and multiple windows not being shown on the task bar etc, everything is the same, you just have more options now. Yes the touch screens is a good item to have with win 8 on a PC but not essential as you can just use the mouse instead.

Mark

[Astrobserver99]

I have no problem with regular apps, however some of the apps, like IE10, music, video etc. are tablet style. Once I get IE10 onto the desktop, it runs in the regular fashion. I have not found an easy way to get apps from metro start to the desktop. I have been going to the desktop and selecting "Add Shortcut" by right clicking on the desktop and searching for the app. There must be an easier method?

[marki]

Right mouse click on the movie and click on play with windows media player and it opens as normal. Same with pics, just right mouse click, preview and it opens in a small window. I start IE10 from the task bar (quick start icon) and its normal in use. You can set these by opening the start menu window, right click on the icon and a menu bar will rise from the bottom then choose pin to taskbar on the LHS. It will then be accessible from the desktop and run as per normal. Also if you use the metro app form simply place the cursor in the top hand corner and you can jump between program windows just as easily as having them all open on the desk top. The corners are the key to getting windows 8 working for you and all 4 corners now have a function, just use your mouse and explore.

Mark

[luka]

Everybody missing the start button should have a look at Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/).

[Astrobserver99]

Windows 8 integrates touch screen technology, tablets, mobile phones and other media technology. Microsoft had to do something to keep abreast with new technology. Some of us do not require touch screen technology, but it seems to be the future. It will be interesting to see what direction the next Windows will take.

[Colin_Fraser]

Touch screens have been around for quite a while now. Very useful in a kiosk mode.
Don't think they would be much good for photo retouching or restoration, CAD or other serious work. You will need an ample supply of Windex on your desk.

[leon]

Gee i,m glad i still run XP on all our machines. :whistle:

Leon :thumbsup:

[Karls48]

Me too. Operating system software should be something to manage your computer and to start other applications software. Not something you have to learn every couple years.

[multiweb]

Win7's pretty cool. Nice move from XP. Not that XP is bad but you get used very quickly to 7 and its perks. And all your astro stuff will run on it. I reckon it's a little more stable than XP.

[LewisM]

Wife's laptop is starting to misbehave (it had a few virii and MANY spybots, which I removed. Thanks Miss 4 for your online game browsing :) ) and I had to replace the RAM. It's 5 years old ASUS, running Pista...errr, I meant Vista

VERY tempted to throw Win 8 onto it for her. Or XP.... I have original XP discs still (full install).

I LOVE Win 7 (it's XP on rails) and doubt I personally will go 8 for many years - until all the programs get workable drivers etc anyway.

[RickS]

Interesting evaluation of Windows 8 usability: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html

[michaellxv]

Couldn't agree more. It's about time MS separated the underlying OS from the user interface. Then they could come out with different UI and all the drivers etc would not have to keep changing. I would have thought that after 30+ years the basic OS should be fairly robust and stable by now.

[acropolite]

Pretty well backs up what I have been saying.

[marki]

Hmmm don't seem to be having any of these problems and see most of this report as complete nonsense. There is nothing you can do on win7 that cannot be done in win8. As for the steep learning curve, it took 2 days for me to be very comfortable with the platform both on PC and Tablet, who were they using to test win 8, Mac OS users???. If you think about this win 8 is available on PC, tablet and phone, how much will that shorten the learning curve? You only have to deal with a single OS not 2 or 3 and its just windows 7 without a start button that's all. Multiple windows can easily be run in win8 (just like win 7) see my post below (#62). The charms cannot be forgotten as you have to use them to turn the machine off, pretty hard to overlook that. As for the rest of the rest such as the tiles, that's just been presented in a way to make it look confusing. Most tiles have a small title telling you what they are e.g. desktop and those that don't simply require you to place the cursor on it which will name the tile and give you options besides the fact that you also choose which tiles are displayed and should know what they do. As for the buttons being flat well analog is dead in just about every way but I guess old habits die hard for some. If a flat icon says power off guess what that means, oh no wait it's not 3D :).
Mark

[mloki]

Looks like Christmas came early for people who wanted to scoop up a free copy of Windows 8 Pro.

Link to Article (http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-loophole-gave-pirates-free-windows-8-pro-license-keys/) :)

It works........

[supernova1965]

Well I tested it completely and I hate it I think it will be fine on a tablet or phone but not on a PC. They should be releasing it for tablets and phones and keep Win7 for the PC. That's my opinion and my 2c worth I think it will flop on PC's and I can't see business buying it at all.

[acropolite]

Let's hope there will be an early service pack to remedy the concerns of most users, Mark excepted...:P

[marki]

Happily so :P;):):D. I hate it when people trash something just because its different to what they are used to. Oh and update one installed last week :P:lol:.

Mark

[marki]

Guess again. We gave Vista a big miss and stayed with XP until win 7 was released. Now we are about to install win 8 on 2000 odd computers in the coming weeks so at least one business is buying it and I am sure there will be many others especially as the old win7 program disks become harder to get and become less and less supported. Our techs have been through all the Microsoft courses and are happy they can run the entire network on win 8 without any dramas, it's the future and all the kids will be learning on win 8 so there will be a huge ground swell from the bottom up. Can't see what all the fuss is about really, just click on the desktop tile and you are back in the win 7 environment.

Mark

[supernova1965]

Not all businesses are running to change as this poll by business insiders shows 9 reasons why business will not upgrade to win8

http://www.businessinsider.com/enterprise-customers-microsoft-windows-8-2012-10

[marki]

Not exactly a poll just some chump stating an age old opinion using someone else's figures. Where can we find the details of the sampling techniques used to gather such data :P. Best read some of the comments written below or even better this piece.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/

Always the same :rolleyes:

Mark

[supernova1965]

We shall see I don't see it being liked except by phone and tablet users

[Barrykgerdes]

Yes! but they probably represent closer to 90% of potential users, a good market to attack. Personally I don't like the interface as it does not suit my usage but I belong to a small group of old hat geeks who don't appreciate changes but eventually fall into line line after the OS has been around for four or five years.

I think Microsoft should reward Mark financially for his reports on Windows 8.:thumbsup:

Barry

[acropolite]

In that case make a special OS for them, microsoft have done that before and that's what they should have done this time. I suggest if you are contemplating Win8 simply google "Windows 8 a dud".

[marki]

I find it hard to believe 90% of the market is business alone. If you think about it logically how many people at work own at least 1 PC at home if not more e.g. a laptop? it stands to reason using that 90% figure that if everyone sitting behind a console at work has at least 1 device at home then business can at best only account for 45% of sales. I have one laptop supplied by my employer but have a PC, laptop and tablet at home so its 3:1 for me and I am definitely not alone in this as I know many others who also own several devices.

Microsoft can throw money at me if they like I will take it :D. But seriously I am excited about the possibilities of using the new platform in the classroom as it is far more interactive then win 7 ever was. We are virtually paperless at my college, every teacher and student has their own laptop with touch screens. There are no pens or text books or note books to be seen. Learning is no longer a 2D piece of paper and it is possible to deliver content in a far more interactive and interesting format as well as cater for the many different learning styles that are present in a class of 30 kids. For example in Science we have many different types of data loggers which the kids can hook up to their laptops and carry out experiments from simple heart rate and acceleration pracs right through to acid/base and redox titrations and just about everything in between. Smart boards allow us to draw a car on a slope, vary the mass/angles/gravity etc then simply tap the board and the car runs down the ramp showing the kids the effects of change. We have a software platform that not only allows us to mark rolls and other such mundane admin tasks, but also has the capacity for students to access notes, assignments, tutorials etc so they are never left behind even when home sick. As Microsoft has demonstrated the extra coding needed to convert existing static programs into interactive programs is minimal so I think many software companies will be jumping on board as the OS takes hold, it is only a small effort on their part to do so as none of the software will need a major re-write. As for companies well they will have to change as the majority of kids will be very well versed in this different environment (remember kids learn software at school now days not at work, most grade 2's and 3's would blow the average adult user into the weeds) and it would cost them money and time to train kids to work on old shoddy software.

What do I like about win 8? It's not a memory hog so is faster in every way, it boots faster, programs just open instantly, plug in a peripheral device like a camera or thumb drive and it there no more waiting 5 mins for it to be detected, they finally got rid of the bloody start button and put everything in one place that can be logically ordered on a single screen (i.e all astronomy programs here, graphics software there, no more scrolling through and endless list of randomly arranged applications, hated the start menu), programs (even older ones that would not run in win 7) and peripherals run better, no updates needed. I can still do everything I could in windows XP/7 but can now jump between that and the metro environment easily allowing for a much more interactive experience. The use of apps is brilliant (the best thing about apple devices also) as you can now download exactly what you want for little cost. It will be on tablets and phones as well so the learning curve is reduced. There are just so many more options.

Mark

[supernova1965]

Though Mark even Apple have created a different OS for the ipad and iPhone I love the ipad and its interface but would not like it on the mac computer. I am not saying win8 is bad on tablets or phones just on the PC to hard to get to the nuts and bolts when it comes time to fix it as an IT tech you need access to the inner workings easily time is money as they say.

[marki]

Start screen --> right mouse click --> select "all apps" from the pop up task bar and take your pick, all administrative and system tools are there. Takes 2 seconds to access whatever you want and you don't have to go digging through 20 windows to get there. All the old DOS commands etc still work in the command prompt window. Warren you also have the choice whether you want to run in tablet style environment or win 7 style desktop environment, just a few simple mouse clicks and away you go.

Mark

[supernova1965]

This is exactly my point I don't think upgrading win8 with a tablet style invironment on a PC makes sense I and many others like the win7 environment and I see no advantage to buying and installing win8 on my PC only to make it look like Win7 that's madness really. And I for one think the release schedule is too short that is just greed expecting everyone to spend hundreds every 2 years when my PC still does everything I need it to do. At least apple only charge around $35 for their OS not the hundreds you have to pay Microsoft I use and love Win7 and will be sticking with it until they give me a good reason to change Win8 isn't reason for me.

[marki]

Fair enough Warren but I like both environments and can slip happily between the two as they both have their advantages but would not buy it just for this reason. I have also listed a whole lot of other reasons why I like win 8 on this thread and that's what makes the $140 I payed for the pro version worth while. What I am really looking forward to is the huge jump in useability and flexibility of software programs that will surely follow and their possibilities in my day to day work of engaging and educating kids. I believe win 8 is miles ahead of win 7 simply because it can do everything the old OS used to and a whole lot more.

Mark

[RickS]

Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for this, Mark ;) AFAIK, there's no magic in Windows 8 that makes application development much easier.

[marki]

I am not good at holding my breath, been smoking for 30 years :P;):D. I remember seeing the first pre launch stuff Microsoft did with win 8, it was a long 2 hour video presentation. No there was no magic application to make software development easier but they did demonstrate how easy it was to turn a static application into a metro application by inserting a few lines of code into the program using a special app for software writers :D. Took the presenter all of 1 minute to achieve this using different coding languages and that is what I am referring to.

Mark

[ZeroID]

Well I ran up my first Win 8 PC for a business environment ( training ? what training ? )
Geez, they've managed to hide the real controls down a deep hole this time but it's still XP\Win 7 underneath all the fancy doodahs on top.
This was a 64 bit version and it failed to take McAfee Antivirus install, incompatible but ther must be another version out there. IN our case it will cause some conflicts in our business policies as specified by HO but that is an internal thing.
From a business perspective it fails in some areas with legacy applications in usability. I hate to say it but businesses have a long term view on this for both user training and efficiencies so new is not necessarily best.
The 'start' page looks a bit cheap and bling for my tastes but you can get to a more business looking option BUT I was not impressed with the mouse\corner access to applications. It was hesitant and dropped off if the mouse moved too much or out of a narrow zone. I see most businesses\users adding desktop links to their high use applications.
From a support point of view it will take a bit of getting used to with finding all the tweaks and setup options. And I was just getting to grips with win 7 !
I may give it 12 months and upgrarde the new home Media PC I bought afew months back. It has an upgrade option as part of the deal. Also about to replace my big desktop at home. I would prefer that to be Win 7 at this point in time.
My perception at this point is that it is aimed and the home non PC literate user, push a button, get a result bit like a coffee machine. I suppose that is the trend really but business wise IMHO a PC still needs to be a PC first and foremost.
Score 7/10 for now...

[marki]

Which real controls have you lost?

Mark

[cjmarsh81]

Same basic OS as 7.

Metro is wasted on the non-touch users out there.

I found without a touch screen I was using the keyboard a lot more than the mouse. Could be a real headache for those that don't know how to launch applets by their names.

[ZeroID]

Nothing lost afaik, just buried in the fancy pictures. eg I had fun just trying to find out how to get it to connect to a LAN, it wants to be a wireless device so that has preference in any wizard or option.

Applets unless you add them to the Start screen are lost, no obvious programs from the missing 'Start' button.

New user has already managed to get totally lost trying to use MS Office. Fired up the Inbuilt 'download and pay' button instead of the corporate Office install I had done. So I removed the offending button from the screen.

And in our case, there is no Helpdesk OS support, it is outside our current Standard build, so he is on his own. He complained about that, then I told him he (big manager with own budget) chose it, it was not our standard PC issue.

[marki]

Strange I just plugged in the cable and it connected all by itself.

If you right click on the start page and choose "all apps" from the pop up task bar the next screen will show the lost apps along with every other program on the computer.

Mark

[mithrandir]

Todays SMH has an item on Win8 (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/windows-8-sales-flounder-as-critics-pan-clumsy-interface-20121126-2a2d0.html). Love the last paragraphs:

[marki]

Andrew most of this has already been posted below and as I have shown you are not locked to a single window, only new users seem to get trapped by this my self included until I started looking around. Funny thing is this artical states "invited several experienced PC users" for their first try of win 8. I mean isn't that statement just a little moronic? Experienced at what, certainly not win 8 and thats where the real useful feedback will come from, people who actually use the program, the rest it quite frankly spam? Still microsoft bashing is a national sport pretty much the same as Meade bashing is on CN. Win 8 is faster, less of a resource hog and gets on much better with 3rd party software and drivers then win 7 ever did and that alone makes it worth while.

Mark

[Colin_Fraser]

Have installed Windows 8 and have been putting it to the test for about a week.
Not that impressed with it so far.

Installed a favorite software package (which has 6 text and help files).
The program file and all the text and help files associated with the install are all placed in with the Apps.
If you have quite a few software packages installed, the App page is going to be huge and you will need a lot of scrolling to find the app you want.
I could not find a way of putting the apps associated files in a folder for easy access. Don't think there is a way to do it.

After I installed my program is where Metro really fails.
Press Windows key to bring up Metro environment Start page
Right click on screen
Move cursor to botton right hand corner
Select All Apps
Using trackpad, scroll up or down to scroll left or right (dumb) to find app
Click Changes.log
Opens in desktop environment. Read the file.
Close file
Press Windows key to get back to Metro environment Start page
Right click the screen
Select All Apps
Using trackpad, scroll up or down to scroll left or right (still dumb) to find app
Click Help file. This is a html file
Opens in IE in Metro environment
Read the file
Cannot close the file. No close button.
Move cursor to top of page. Cursor changes to hand.
Click and drag page to a bottom corner to remove.
This takes you back to Metro environment Start page
Away we go again. Only 4 more files to read.

This behaviour might be okay on a tablet but my laptop is NOT a tablet and I should not be forced to use it as a tablet.

Next thing I tried was to play a DVD. No Go. Microsoft no longer support playing DVD's on devices using their OS.
You have to purchase 3rd party software to play DVD's. I want to install Visual Studio 2010 but it is on DVD. Hope that works.

Opened up the desktop and ran IE. Set my favourites and home page. Seems pretty good.
Next step was to run IE from the Metro environment. Whoa, what a mess.
The favourite screen is full of Microsoft sites and took a bit to get rid of them all. The most disappointing thing is that I could not find where I can set my home page. Okay for a tablet again but no good for me. I will be giving that a wide berth.

If Microsoft want to do something radical, they should try listening to complaints. I doubt the will listen but if they did, they should give the customer an option to disable the Metro environment and bring back the Start button or give users a less 'in your face' method of launching applications.

[Barrykgerdes]

Sure sounds like Microsoft is set to brainwash the no brainers into becoming totally dependant on their operating system!

Barry

[marki]

Mark

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks Mark. All very good suggestions. It is what I have always done. If I use it a lot I put a shortcut on the quick launch bar or desktop.
Sort of now makes the Metro environment redundant if you put the shortcuts and folders on the desktop. But we are still stuck with it :confused2:
I do find it annoying somewhat that when you click on an icon in the metro environment it may open up in metro or the desktop environment.
If you are working in the metro environment and want to use the calculator. You have to get out of the app you are in first, then the calculator opens in the desktop environment. When finished you have to manually get back to the metro. Not good.

[marki]

Colin I just did a little digging around and found you can do the following. Create your folder and put whatever files/.exe etc in it then right mouse click ---> pin to start. If you then go back to the start menu there it is so you can keep things nice and tidy :). If you then remove any apps that you don't use and only use the all apps command when you need something out of the ordinary its all good. I am going to create a folder in the C drive and call it start menu and chuck all the folders off the desk to in that then pin each to the start menu which will give me a spotless desktop :D.

Mark

[Colin_Fraser]

I made a folder and named it utils then copied a couple of executeables in that folder. I then pinned it to start.
Pressed Windows key to get to metro environment and the folder was there. However, when I click the folder, it leaves metro and opens the folder in the Windows explorer showing the files.
I could of just as easily put the folder on the desktop and opened it from there. Absolutely no point putting the folder on the metro environment :shrug:

[Tandum]

After market start buttons for Win8 are starting to appear. Here's one of them -> http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

[marki]

There is quite a few now Robin, should solve the mysteries for the old timers:P. Funny thing is we had a couple of year 7 students try out win 8 for next year, they were all over it in 10 minutes :D.

Mark

[marki]

But you can still do it :D.

Mark