Is this the Start

[TrevorW]

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/news-com-au/labor-sells-off-the-farm-to-china/770085

:mad2:

[Larryp]

It's frightening how we are letting foreign investors to buy up our land.

[TrevorW]

Apparently not is seems a lot slip under the radar

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/australia-is-the-great-foreign-owned-land-as-more-nsw-farms-being-sold-overseas/story-e6freuzi-1226281573668

[Stardrifter_WA]

Who cares? We can always take it back, like a lot of other countries do.

[Hans Tucker]

Hardly news...Today Tonight & A Current Affair have been reporting stories such as these for over a year..I even think Sixty Minutes might have done a story about foriegn take overs of Australian farms with the clear blessing of the government. Rather than sell Cubbie Farm they should have scrapped it..it is a stupid idea to grown cotton (a water hungry crop) in a country where water is becoming scarce. This country needs to support farming and farmers need to be smarter about what they grow. Shame governments (Liberal & Labour) only think short term to the next election rather than plan for this countries future.

[bojan]

Who is "We"? :P

[Larryp]

Totally agree with you, Hans

[astroron]

Ditto,
I and a lot of more learned people have been saying that about the stuff we grow for a long time ,but it seems to be falling on deaf ears:mad2:
Cheers:thumbsup:

[Waxing_Gibbous]

Gotta agree with the environmental affects of cotton.
It's a land-killer.
But.
Although I own a farm, I 'm not really a farmer, however those around us are and they're pretty savvy about what they grow.
They grow to the market.
When the public decides they want to pay a premium for sustainably, farmed produce (be it meat or veg) on a consistant basis, not just on a whim, then I think you'll find farmers more than happy to oblige.
When the consuming public decides it would rather spend it's money on food than cigarettes, alchohol and 'presitige' cars. then I think you'll see a change in farm practice.

Farming is capital intensive and utterly dependent on the wind and weather. Farmer's margins are often very tight and it its always guesswork about whats going to bring in the cash next year.
It's also a 24/7 job. No unions, no benefits no "personal time", no sickies.
You don't work, you don't eat.
Your crop fails.
Tough.
So why should the person that feeds YOU have to be penalised for doing the hard yards..
No other profession is so vulnerable to the exigences of exogenous circumstance. No other job requires such long-term commitment.

It's no wonder landholder's are selling-off to foreign buyers - constant villification by urban know-nothings, sod-all returns, and no governmaent support, mean it's more attractive to take the money and let a foreign agri-corp run the business.
If the general public want's Australian land to stay in Australian hands, they should fore-go their indulgances ( multi-thousand dollar telescopes and gear anyone?), form co-operatives and buy the land themselves.

[Rob_K]

What a furphy! They only run garbage like that to encourage xenophobia (and obviously it's working). It's the same stuff they've been peddling forever. I seem to remember the same stuff about Yanks buying half our country when I was a kid.

So what happens if a Chinese company buys the farm? Does the Chinese farmer go home to China every night after a hard day's ploughing, taking his pail of milk or bag of rice with him? Think about it. Any exports they make are Australian exports. As a consumer, if I buy their farm products, I'm still buying Australian. I'm happy they made the investment.

And has anyone researched how much overseas property Australian companies own? Or how many overseas resources Australian companies control? Come on, it's a big big world out there. ;)

Cheers -

[rolls05]

Agree 100% Rob, We just had the same happen here in NZ, Huge farm sold to the Chinese. Man, you would have thought the imperial Chinese navel fleet was about to take up permanent residence in Wellington harbour. What a carry on. Yet we still seem to be carrying on as per usual. Oh, and when James Cameron ( film director) just bought a huge farm in the southern North Island here, narry a murmur. Funny that.

[Trixie]

We were only talking about this last night. We are in it for the love of it not the money luckily but there may come a time when we have no choice but to sell. If it got that point I wouldn't care who bought our farm.

In this particular case South Australians are very worried because of the water issue.

[Larryp]

Yes, Rob_K, Australian companies such as BHP-Billiton do own resources all over the world, and I have no problem with companies buying companies-this is globalisation.
But I do have a problem with foreign countries buying up our farms. Sure we can still buy the produce from those farms now, but if for some reason there becomes a world food shortage, where do you think that food will go then?

[cfranks]

It's not that bad according to Swan! "Mr Swan said the approval was only given on the condition that RuYi sell down its stake to 51 per cent within three years."
No wonder we have a problem if he doesn't realise that 51% is still a majority! :question:

[Trixie]

I dont understand the whole sell the stake down to 51% thing. How will that make a difference anyway?

[multiweb]

Sale of productive asset overseas is never good. Plain and simple.

[AndrewJ]

Whilst i understand the theory that a farmer/householder should be able to get the best price for their property, competing with overseas entities ( who are buying for future use and dont really care re the current cost ) means locals will nearly always lose. If land purchase was limited to citizens only, then you may not get as much when you sell, but conversely, it wont cost as much to buy.

The biggest problem i see with this purchase is its 99% sure to be backed by the Chinese govt, as it is in other places around the world where they are buying up bigtime.
They will never go broke ( in our lifetimes ) and as such, i doubt this land ( and more importantly, the water rights that go with it ) will ever come back on the market.

Andrew

[TrevorW]

How would we go about buying millions or acres of land in China

[luvmybourbon]

i think the main concern that it is a "government" purchase not a private one. Could be wrong usually are lol, ps i dont agree with it myself...............give a 5 million aussies a chance to put 500 bucks in and you get the same and probably then some!

[Omaroo]

The sale of Cubbie Station isn't just about the land. It's a massively important water resource that is now under foreign control. Someone convince me that in the driest country on Earth, this is isn't just a bit stupid.

[Rob_K]

No Chris, all water in Queensland (including the Cubbie Farm water) is controlled by the Queensland Government under the Water Act 2000 and Regulations, and South East Queensland Water (Distribution and Retail Restructuring) Act 2009. I fully agree that the whole idea of using such massive quantities of scarce water on attempting to grow cotton is a wasteful and unsustainable land use, but it's not as if Chinese investment somehow turns the farm into Chinese territory.

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), the only piece of Australia under Chinese control is the Chinese Embassy in Canberra. The farm will remain subject to the same laws as any other farm or piece of Australia, notwithstanding any major project exemptions it might have. Employees will come under the same industrial laws, any exports under the same export review processes, the same taxation laws, planning laws, environmental laws etc etc.

Cheers -

[TrevorW]

The Govt never really cares what the think, because we elect them they can do what they like with impunity and never have to answer for stupid decisions then still come away with a packet of money when they are dismissed from Govt.

As a PS I constantly see the results of stupid decisions where bucket loads of our taxpayer dollars gets wasted and there is no accountability.

I lament as it will never change.

[Omaroo]

Good to know Rob. Exactly what do the Chinese have planned for it then? I haven't been following the whole story to date, only snippets. It's probably even a silly thing for me to comment given that.

[TrevorW]

"Treasurer Wayne Swan last night insisted the acquisition of Cubbie Group would not impact on water management arrangements, as the company would remain subject to state and Commonwealth regulations."

Yet this farm uses 500 mega litres of water a year

[Rob_K]

Cheers Chris - I'd suspect they want to make money out of it! :D Their purchase includes an existing legal and sanctioned water right (no matter how ridiculous we think it is - our fault, not theirs) but that's all. They can't take more (is there more?) and they can't take the water back to China! :lol:

I suppose my point is that this is just global business. We invest in other countries, other countries invest in us, for all sorts of reasons. When we invest in other countries, our investments operate under the laws of that land, not ours. Australia probably punches above its weight in foreign investment, particularly in the resources sector. And it's not all good news because developed countries like us often pick soft targets where slack laws or administration allow us to exploit people and commit environmental rapine in pursuit of the holy dollar. Err, off soapbox now... :rolleyes: :P

Cheers -

[AndrewJ]

Gday Rob



Not so sure here, as it depends on how they set it up.
There was a good discussion on it yesterday on the ABC radio,
( Macca was interviewing someone who was very well versed in
how the FIRB etc works ) but i cant find a podcast yet.
I also see the senate is now asking questions re how it is to operate.
It sounded like they may even be able to run it semi taxfree
with raw product shipped direct offshore.????

Dont know whats really going to happen,
but i think selling off water to grow cotton
is not really going to be in our best interests.
I also doubt any of our govts will have the guts to implement some of the laws, if the new "owners" express displeasure, and push comes to shove.

Andrew

[Rob_K]

Hi Andrew - doesn't matter how they set it up, it's still Australian law. Call me when Chinese sovereignty is declared and then I'll jump in the trenches! ;)

Concessions like you're alluding to are always part of major investments (ie the exemptions I referred to before) and the xenophobic local media never give us the background to be able to understand the complexity of the inevitable backroom deals that go on - you give us this concession and we'll give you that. Remember that China is a major trading partner of Australia and that we have lots of investments going on in China. We might be bent over a barrel at times, but hey that's business. :P

I'll butt out now - suffice to say I'm not in favour of Cubbie, couldn't care less about foreign ownership of this or that... and no, I don't have great faith in any of our political parties to protect the national interest! :lol:

Cheers -

PS: I'd be really angry if 'furriners' started pinching our dark skies!

[Zhou]

When I was a kid the demons were the Japanese.

[mikesim]

As long as they build the worlds largest telescope there I dont mind. If there are any problems, its a short 33 hour drive for the 2500 US marines soon to be stationed at Darwin to practice their farm reclamation skills :lol:.