Heading back to Visual Astronomy - A GOTO dob?

[davewaldo]

Hi All,

Its been a long time since I've participated in this site, I've been lurking frequently though! You guys are producing some great images these days!

Alas I have no time for imaging anymore, and I don't see me having time for it in the few years to come. But rather than give up on astronomy altogether I'm looking at getting a dob and getting back to quick visual outings when I can fit them in.

So I'm looking for a good visual scope, quick to set up and minimum of extra bits and bobs needed. Budget of up to $2500.
So I'm thinking a skywatcher flextube dob with Argonavis. I know these now come with goto but I'm not much of a fan of synscan and the argo seems like a better long term investment if my needs change. What do you guys think? I can always add servocat jr later on, I know this adds more cost than the scope is worth but its still a lot cheaper than an SDM, and I can always upgrade the scope later and continue using the quality argo/servocat for many years down the track.

12" Flextube - $1300
Argo + Kit - $900

Can I realistically expect to dump my scope down, 2 star align and be off and running?

Would love to hear what everyone thinks, I guess I'm basically looking for an enjoyable scope with quality/easy to use electronics.

Cheers,

Dave.

PS. Yes DSC/goto are a must, I never have been a good star hopper :sadeyes:

[Satchmo]

I had a chance to use a 12" flextube with GOTO for a night at the SPSP and I've got to say that it was the `drag n' track aspect that I loved the most.

GOTO seemed to work well enough but for most objects i simply pushed the scope manually onto the object and it tracked automatically - no fiddling with clutches as you do with a Servocat. A tracking dob is a great thing- and tracking that is completely transparent is an even greater thing :)

So if I had a $2500 budget I would go for GOTO Skywatcher 12" and a light shroud.

[davewaldo]

Thanks Mark, yes but my problem (perceived problem) with the Skywatcher GOTO system is that the pointing accuracy will not be great, and its not known how robust/reliable this system is.

I didn't realise you could just push the scope around once set up though, does that not ruin the star alignment?

[mental4astro]

YES!

It's that simple.

I came within a whisker of doing this to my 17.5" dob, but unlike you, I found the whole "electrification" of my scope too much of an imposition and it took away from my enjoyment of this hobby.

I did install the Argo (even though I dumped it soon after), and with the experience of others, it is just as you say "two star align and off you go".

Mind you, in my case, I would have had to disassemble the entire drive and Argo mechanisms in order to stow my big dob away. A 12" flex-dob is still a sizeable beastie when stowed, and heavy to move around. The extra gear is only a small amount extra, but it adds up. I mention this if ease of portablity is something you need to consider. I don't know how easy it would be to uncouple the rocker box from the OTA for ease of transportation with either a Servo-Cat or Synscan system. If go-to is important, maybe look into this aspect too. A lot of folks with dobs uncouple the OTA from the rocker box for transportation purposes, including with the Argo. But the motor situation may present other complications.

I just don't want to give you a "through rose coloured glasses" view on dobs. Go-to works very, very well. Some people even take photos of DSO's with them very successfully. But everything has a trade-off. Just consider how and where you are going to be using the dob, and if the scope you are considering will fit that behaviour, or how you may need to accomodate the scope and if it works that way too. You may then feel that a larger scope with just an Argo system would suffice.

Mental.

[davewaldo]

Thanks Mental,

Yes the 12 inch is a big beast, and I'm not the biggest of fellows, but I think separating the base from scope for transport should be fine. I know the flextube goto scopes detach quite easily from the base.

But size certainly is a consideration and I think 12" is definitely the largest I can go.

The goto dob is starting to sound more attractive as it seems to be getting good reviews.

Dave.

[Shark Bait]

I have the SW 12" Flex Tube Goto Dob that you are considering. One of the other BAS members as the 14" Goto version. I can move transport my 12" without any help but the 14" tends to take two people to move it with ease.

I am content with the 12" primary. It is no SDM but the mirror performs well and experienced observers have been pleased with the views on offer. The Goto system is satisfactory. Like Satchmo, I tend to 'drag' it to the target and them let the Goto system track the object.

Recently I was lucky enough to borrow some TV Ethos EP's and was able to make out the 'fried eggs' of Eta Carina. To see so much detail through those superb EP's still amazes me today. The image has been burnt into my memory and my humble EP's are no longer up to the task.

[mental4astro]

Cool, :D

Sounds like someone's getting a new toy soon, :lol:

Oh, but that's gonna mean more clouds for the rest of us, :mad2: Not cool, Dave...

[Astro_Bot]

I must admit that, in my tentative pursuit of astrophotography - a path on which I am only just starting - I have often asked myself if I'm doing the right thing. The cost is one hurdle, but it's the time involved and the long learning curve as well that I'm coming to realise is a large hurdle in itself - working full time, I'm having second thoughts about whether I'll have enough time. I bought an EQ6Pro way back so as to offer an eventual upgrade path to astrophotography, and I've enjoyed the EQ mount's accuracy and tech - very snazzy - but the set up time for visual is ... well ... a PITA.

I still like visual astronomy, though, and am keen to increase aperture from the current 8". If I decide to forget about AP, then I'd sell off my current gear and get a SW 12" GoTo Dob ... in fact, I've been looking at dobs in stores recently and doing a lot of spec comparisons. Hmmmm .... sounds like my subconcious might have made up its mind already.

For someone like me ... middle-aged but reasonably fit and healthy ... the 12" GoTo Dob looks like the "sweet spot" for visual astronomy. And I think it just fits in my car.

Since we're talking about dobs: The 14" SW Dob has knobs that allow quick assembly/disassembly of the base - it breaks down into 4 pieces - base, left upright, right upright, and front upright - which makes transport easier. The 10" Dob definitely can't do that even with tools as not all the screws are easily accessible once assembled (AFAIK). However, from what I can see, the 12" SW Dob base has such screws (14 of them) that are all accessible from the top/sides. Does someone know whether these can be replaced with aftermarket knobs to make base assembly/disassembly into 4 parts easy, just like the 14"?

(@Dave: I figure this is useful for you too, hence tacking onto your thread).

[Derek Klepp]

Dave I have the 16" goto SW version and it's setup as a roll out roll in scope.The 12" would be about as large as you would want for set up pull down.The alignment is pretty good with 2star.Ihave a battery pack sitting on the swivel base to avoid chord wrap.Balance is important with my scope and I have tightened the alt az clutch bolt.I don,t think this will bea problem with the smaller scope however if using a heavy eyepiece I,d balance it at the rear with a counterweight.With these SWs you can also slew to an object then manually move the scope around the area and not lose alignment .Remember these come with a 12 month warranty so use it heaps at the start to see if there are any bugs.Good luck with your purchase .
Regards Derek

[davewaldo]

Well thank you everyone! Yes I am starting to lean towards the SW 12" dob :)

Stu: You say the goto is "satisfactory". Care to elaborate? What problems have you noted? Also I have a few nice EPs so I'm keen to see what the views are like through the flextube.

Mental: Yep, you've probably noticed my liquidation sale happening in the IceTrade section. Eitherway, I'll be getting some new scope :D

Astro_Bot: You bring up some good points, I've also been wondering if the hex bolts could be exchanged for knobs to make the base collapsable. I don't see why not, but finding the knobs may be tricky.

I looked briefly at the Orion 12" goto dob online today, similar price as the SW but has a collapsable base. But its heavier (almost 10kg) and is a 8 truss design which is more fiddly.

Well the search continues but the SW 12" is on the short list!

Thanks guys.

[Shark Bait]

The base needs to be as level as possible or the Goto will start to miss its target as the scope slews to different parts of the sky and as the viewing session continues the error increases. This problem is minimised or eliminated by careful setup on level ground and accurate positioning of the alignment stars in the field of view.

Recently my scope has become mildly inaccurate no matter how careful I am with the setup routine. It is a minor problem that I work around for the moment but I will have to get it looked at. It is starting to cause some frustration. Luckily the scope is covered by a 5 year warranty and Sky Watcher are good with their customer service. :thumbsup:

[davewaldo]

One additional concern regarding swapping the hex bolts for knobs on the 12" SW base is whether or not these hex bolts go into captive nuts (or some metal equivalent) or if they are basically just big screws going into the chipboard. If the latter you wouldn't want to be removing them often as you'd eventually ruin the wood.

Anyone with one of these 12" goto dob bases know if these bolts go into captive nuts? Stu? :)

Dave.

[Shark Bait]

Good news here. The Hex socket head cap screws that hold the base together all screw into an embeded threaded captive sleeve arrangement.

The 3 'feet' are screwed directly into the base, as are some of the minor accessories. This is fine as long as they are not ripped out of the chipboard. I have not had any problems as yet.

I can fit the base into the back seat of our Astra Sedan. It is a bit tight but it is just possible to get the base through the door without bumping anything. The OTA fits into the boot and I use the original dense packing foam to hold it in position.

[davewaldo]

Great, thanks Stu! So it sounds like we could just swap the hex bolts for knobs and make the base collapsable. Would help for car space when you need to fit more than just astro gear, ie camping.

[jjjnettie]

I have the 10" version of the SW goto dobbie and I love it. :)

Mine has a great sense of slap stick LOL. When it slews to an object , it stops, you put your eye to the ep, then it give one last big slew and beeps that it's arrived, I get bopped in the forehead at least once each session.
(it can't be my fault that I don't wait for it to tell me it's locked onto the target)

[davewaldo]

Good to know, thanks mate. I didn't realise SW had a 5 year warranty!

[gary]

Hi Dave,

Gary Kopff here from Wildcard Innovations.

Great to hear you are returning to visual astronomy.

An Argo Navis plus Sky Watcher kit is only AUD795.23 inc GST plus postage
at the time of writing.



Yes. It is that easy.

Drop me an email or give me a phone call if you have any questions.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Satchmo]

No the skywatcher GOTO is a closed loop system with independent encoders as well as the ones on the servo motors. Once you have done initial alignment the scope knows where it is pointing at all times. The difference from the servocat system is that the Skywatcher has slip clutches that allow manual pushing that seems to work quite well.

I found pointing accuracy adequate but clearly the more you calibrate it to work in the area of sky you are working the better it points.

A hybrid solution might be to use the drag n'track side of the stock drive for tracking and an Argo for accurate aid finding objects and all the joys of its searcheable database.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

+1

I've only had a go with this scope but it was very accurate - once trained - and if I had a spare 2500 beer vouchers, I would happily buy one.

[Shark Bait]

Best confirm the 5 year warranty. It may have been a sales promotion limited to scopes purchased within a certain time frame.

[davewaldo]

Well over night I've had 2nd thoughts. I'm just not convinced the SW is worth my hard earned cash. I still have my doubts to its long term performance, reliability and as a cash investment. Many people are happy while they are new, but there are starting to be several scopes now showing issues and pointing errors.

My option #2 has been to create a dob base for a 10" SW newt I already own and add argonavis. This would cost a total of $1000 or less and should have zero problems - ie, a base that will perform well long term, and good pointing accuracy. Although no tracking....

I'm in no rush so have plenty of time to decide.

Dave.

[Astro_Bot]

Ah, you suffer from visits of the "doubt monster" just like me. I'm one of those people who gets buyer's remorse for just thinking about it!


I haven't really seen that. If you look hard enough online, you can find detractors for just about everything. Even more expensive mounts still need a service (AFAICS), although how one goes about servicing a GoTo dob, I don't know.


That does kinda change things. If you don't want/need tracking, that's probably a very economic option.

[Astro_Bot]

Just doing a bit of looking and it seems that 'official' Skywatcher dealers offer a 5 year warranty. Andrews is offering 6 years (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-content-section-10-skywatcher.htm). That's not an extensive search, though.

[Osirisra]

I own the SW 14" and in our group we have 2 10"s another 14" and a 8" all collapsible goto versions and everyone is quite happy with their scopes. Some have had to adjust the tension of the gears but that is easy quick tweak.

Accuracy is not really a problem and even with a rough alignment you can easily re-sync. The best thing is you use the goto completely, or not at all or bit of both, brilliant system that you can't find on many scopes. Really nice to be able to just push to the target and continue tracking, love it.

Great bang for buck scopes and you will not be disappointed.

For ease of use and quick deployment the 10" would might be the way to go as it a great size to not be a mission to move and or setup. with the 12'' and up you will need to disassemble the base as it is heavy and cumbersome for one person and this is a pain when viewing time is precocious. I'm still puting the base together for my 14" and the other guys with their 10" are all-ready up and running. Saying that it is worth the hassle ones you get to drag those photons onto that 14" primary.

Wish the 16" was out when I went to get mine.

[davewaldo]

Thanks guys! You're not making this decision easy!

One second I'm thinking low cost, build my own 10", next I'm back looking at the SW goto.... I'll ponder this one for a while. Maybe a 2nd hand unit will come up and that will make the decision for me :)

[mental4astro]

The third option is you find a second hand solid tube, 12" or 14", and make your own collapsible scope. Your own specks, your own unique style. I've often thought about purchasing the GSO 16" scope, ripping out the optics and other bits, and building my own instrument as I don't like the of build of those scopes, and can make my own to suit me. Same can be done to a solid tube instrument. Mind you, I make this hobby suit ME, not the other way around, :rolleyes: .

[kustard]

My own experience: I bought an Orion 14" goto (XX14g) which uses the Synscan controller. The optics are great but the controller (and mount drive) not so great and I had some issues with getting it serviced. In the end I've pulled out the drive and have reverted the scope back to a push-to using the Argo which works a treat.

An option is to get the Orion 14" non-goto (XX14i) like Rick got (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/41-651-0-0-1-0.html) and modify as required. You could even try an AstroDevices Nexus system on it.

*Note: It seems that Orion have updated their drive system on the scopes so maybe they have improved.

Cheers,
Simon

[davewaldo]

Hey Alex, yeah I have thought about building my own collapsible, but I figure I can stick with a solid tube for the time being if I decide to go down the ATM route.

Thanks Simon, for your report, thats exactly the thing I'm worried about with a SW goto, even if it is 3-5 years down the track....

Decisions Decisions....

Dave.

[mental4astro]

Just to stir the pot some more, :lol:

From this 121576 to this 121577 & this to transport the modification 121578

From 90kg to about 30kg.

From a dog of a mount to a silky smooth joy.

[davewaldo]

Wow, what size dob is that? And do you have the plans available?

How does the pole system work, and does it take long to set up?

Cheers,

Dave.

[Shark Bait]

Very nice rig Mental.

The stubbie cooler over the finder scope is a great idea that will be used on my setup from now on. Instant dew shield. :thumbsup:

[el_draco]

I remember in the good old days we used to "star hop" to a target. It was half the fun of the hobby because you just never knew what you would find. You could consider getting a decent right angle finder, say a stellavue 60mm -80mm and really do it simple....:)

[syousef]

I'm finding a digital inclinometer ($40) and manual azimuth setting circle plus a laptop do me fine. I usually get my object in or very near using a 42mm or 50mm 2" eyepiece. The azimtuth circle is a pain in the neck to print, but it can be done for the price of a few sheets of a4, a little printer ink and some laminate. I did end up cutting a small wedge out of the top circle on my dob base to accomodate though. I want some more regidity when I turn the azimuth circle during alignment, so 'm going to replace my circle with a laminate sheet I picked up from bunnings for $10.50.

Here's someone who's done it more neatly:
http://www.homebuiltastronomy.com/ManualDobSettingCircles.htm


I also have wheels on my base. Setup is a 1 star alignment. Total time to set up is about 5 mins from when I start carting my scope to the backyard.

I'm starting to work my way through the Messier list. Finding objects for the first time it takes me no time to be absolutely sure what I'm looking at. (I've had manual circles before on my smaller dobs but never locking wheels. I just bought a 12" and decided to do it properly).

Here is my alignment procedure.
1. Look up alt/az of alignment star
2. Plonk telescope down with azimuth roughly right and point at star (assisted by zero power finder, RACI)
3. Adjust telescope base to match az roughly and lock wheels
4. Fine tune by moving azimuth circle around and lock it down (my system uses velcro on the rim of the bottom ring to stick the laminated setting circle down in place)
5. Check and verify azimuth reading is correct.
6. Turn on inclinometer and point at alignment star. Zero inclinometer
7. Move telescope to negative altitude of star. Re-zero inclinometer
8. Move telescope back to star and verify inclinometer reading is correct.

This system is not accurate enough for extremely faint objects. I do sometimes have to scan a little. But not very much. Perfect for brighter messier objects.

[Astro_Bot]

How precise is your inclinometer, if you don't mind me asking?

[davewaldo]

Hi syousef,

Its a very good suggestion, however I've been down this road before, and built a system exactly like you describe. However I really got jack of it after a while and found it to be a fiddly and unstable system. I had a similar problem as you with faint objects and it leaves you wondering if you just can't see the object, or if you aren't pointing in the right place.

It is a great way to get get pointing on a limited budget and I did fine it very worthwhile, I just wouldn't go back there again, I'd just get and argo navis.

Cheers,

Dave.

[syousef]

It reads in 0.1 degree increments. I'd probably trust it to 0.2 or 0.3. Subjectively I'm very happy with it. I've got a manual inclinometer, and I'd say that I can read that within 3 degrees or so.

The Wixey does have one fault. It's soft off switch still draws current and flattens your battery. I have to put a piece of paper between the battery and the plate to prevent contact when not in use. I bought myself a little switch to install so I don't have to open it up every time as that is a pain.

I don't doubt there are other inclinometers that don't have this problem.

[syousef]

Fair enough. I'd probably buy an Argo Navis if money was no object, and if I weren't cheap ;-)

I think all dobs should come with manual setting circles though. Ridiculous in this day and age that we have to buy a basic model and fiddle with it to make it usable.

[Astro_Bot]

Thanks.

[mental4astro]

That's my 17.5". It was an original Coulter Optics Odyssey II. Part of the reason I named it Odessius.

Takes me 15min to set up. A bit longer if I add dew straps.

I did add encoders and an Argo which I fired up only once. I got rid of the lot the next day. I found my niche within astronomy, which is to relax and unwind. The electronics made it frantic and a race. But it all depends on what you want from astro, doesn't it. I prepare my session sometimes weeks before (part of my enjoyment too of astro), and end up with a list of six objects to sketch. I may only end up looking at 3 of them as a sketch can take upto three hours, and I'm happy :) . Like I said, it's not a race for me.

[Satchmo]

My perspective is a little different- I now put tracking ability above GOTO or setting circles, on my wish list. Having tracking is just like adding a few inches of aprture as you brain really has a chance to intergrate faint details.

[mental4astro]

Dave, nearly forgot one of your questions.

The whole project took one year to plan and four months to build working pretty much one day on weekends. Odessius is nothing like my first idea. I designed it to follow all the principles of what makes a dobsonian mount work, and the stiffness requirements of a good OTA. The poles are 50mm, and are held in place first from the over engineered mirror box and with very strong clamps. Without good clamps the design wouldn't work. The secondary cage looks flimsy, but once its clamps are actuated it is rock solid. Once collimated, I can focus on something at zenith, drop it to something on the horizon and nothing shifts.

[mental4astro]

Yep, there's no wrong or right with astro. It's what you want from it.

[Astro_Bot]

Revisiting this area ... a few more quesitons if I may ...

So, assuming a reasonably level base and that care has been taken with the 2-star alignment, what sort of GoTo accuracy can be expected for the 12" SW Dob? What about tracking drift? And does it change significantly in other parts of the sky, say the opposite side to the two alignment stars? Does it degrade during the evening?

How does it compare to an EQ6 Pro that has done 3-star alignment? (I have one of those, so am familiar with it's performance).

[Russ59]

mental, I understand your thinking a bit. I have played around the edges with imaging and I'm seriously thinking of going back to pure visual observing again. I am looking at a standard 18" Obsession or Telekit build with no bells or whistles, but I have heard many good reports about the Aussie made Argo Navis so might have to look into it further.

Cheers,
Russ

[syousef]

I don't have time to perfect my alignment technique and while I find photography and astronomy exciting, the thought of sitting out there in the cold playing chase the star in the reticle for hours then NOT looking through my scope while I babysit and image is extremely unappealing. And for what? There are people who are spending crazy time and money doing the same. There are much larger telescopes and better more expensive tracking in research instruments.

Please note I am not putting down the stunning work that others do here. I'm just saying it's not for me.

So I went with my 12" Dob and intend to do a lot of visual. On the imaging side I've decided to learn to reduce images from the big instruments. I've downloaded and played with my first couple of sets of Hubble data using FITS Liberator and GIMP and though the results are just a beginning I'm pleased that after all these years I finally did it. I even posted one of these first attempts here.

FiTS Liberator instead of IRAF - which is what I touched on using back in the days I did my astro degree made it much more about getting a good image and much less about learning obscure commands and processing/calibration steps.

[Steffen]

I could not agree more. When I got my HEQ5Pro mount (my first computerised mount) I bought it for tracking things in the viewfinder that would otherwise be too fleeting to enjoy.

I had previously dabbled with EQ mounts that had just an RA motor but I could never get those to track properly (due to my lack of skill in setting them up properly). I had hoped I could just point the HEQ5 roughly south and the 3-star alignment would detect and compensate for any setup errors. I had wrongly assumed that the mount would use the alignment information for tracking, but it doesn't (it's only used for GOTO).

So, I ended up with a mount that would point with reasonable accuracy after a quick setup, but still track poorly at high magnification unless set up meticulously. This means a lengthy setup involving compass, bubble level, clinometer, sometimes several tries due to SynScan bugs/idiosyncrasies. Plus, I lost the ability to point manually.

This is why those tracking Dobs (which all seem to be GOTO these days) are so attractive to me. Not only do they hold much bigger OTAs than any EQ mount in my price range could ever hope to, they also let me point manually and then track whatever I pointed to. All this after nothing more than levelling the base and doing a two-star alignment. The GOTO and identify functions are nice to have gimmicks, but fast setup and good tracking is what I'm really after.

Cheers
Steffen.

[rustigsmed]

hi dave and astrobot

i own a 12" SW flexi-tube goto. I am quite happy with it.
as for moving it around, there is one bolt to seperate the tube from the mount. easy. i drive a BA falcon, and put the tube in the boot and actually have to put the mount on the front passenger seat. the rear doors on the BA falcon don't open wide enough (i think the BF onwards have more rear door range). I don't think I could transport the 14" with my car!

When moving around i don't dismantle the mount either, i am able to move around easy enough with the mount off, but if you've got a bad back etc / traversing uneven ground / or have to cover more than 50m it may be a struggle.

i enjoy the ease of setup and the clutch setup really is a good feature. setup / imaging etc it really is the LazyAstronomer's perfect scope. i'm still to suss out exactly where the tracking weaknesses are eg zenith or downlow, i think as far as ds imaging goes i think it was struggling well perhaps rotating a bit more directly up than closer to the horizon..

good luck :thumbsup:

Rusty

[Astro_Bot]

Bump. Thanks for the info so far.

So does anyone have figures for SW Dob tracking and GoTo accuracy? (See post #43). I don't mean the manufacturer's claims!

And another thought: What is the tolerable error in leveling the Dob base for accurate performance?

[Astro_Bot]

Bump. Maybe I'll catch more people on a Sunday?

Another thought: I've read conflicting reports as to whether anti-cord wrap is in the Skywatcher firmware. Can anyone confirm that it has anti-cord wrap?

[Shark Bait]

The SW Flex Tube GoTo Dob does not have anti-cord wrap built into its firmware. I purchased a 10m long cord to help prevent the dob from self strangulation.

I discussed my pointing issues in an earlier post. I am still willing to work around the errors and when I have the object in the FOV it will track it very well. Object tracking can be fine tuned on the fly with a setting in the firmware and it will reduce the effects of any drift.

Hope this helps.

[Astro_Bot]

Thanks, Stu. Your info is a help and much appreciated.

I guess I'm looking for quantitative answers to help remove a source of error, that being interpretation of descriptors people use: e.g. one person's "pretty close" is another person's "significantly out".

[davewaldo]

Hey Astro_Bot, I came close to buying a skywatcher GOTO dob, but I too found getting good answers to questions regarding reliability difficult. I know if you search the web you'll always find bad reviews of pretty much any product but I just couldn't convince myself that these scopes were worth the money (to me). There are plenty of good reviews out there and many happy owners, but these are still a relatively new product and talking to a supplier I have found some are having issues already, one owner (of an Orion dob, same system as SW) ditched the electronics and fitted an Argo Navis after repeated attempts to fix pointing errors failed! Also I've owned one of these budget dobs before and their bases aren't the best and end up needing rebuilding after several years (what happens to the goto then....?).

Because of this, I've embarked down the path of ATM. I'm building a dob base for a 10" newt and fitting an argo navis. This will cost approximately half that of a GOTO skywatcher and should perform MUCH better and for many years to come, although without tracking. I could add servocat later down the track if I wanted and only be about $500 more than the SW. The reason I went down this path is that I know the Argo is a great system, and one I can take to my next scope - same goes for the servocat.

So, when I started this thread I was looking to find a quality scope for visual observing, for me I've decided to try an avoid the constant updating cycles by buying some premium components (the argo) and building a premium base. This (I hope) should allow me to upgrade later without having to buy the electronics all over again. :)

Besides, ATM is FUN! (thanks Mental:D)

Dave.