Canon EOS-650D announced

[Octane]

Neat. First DSLR with a touch screen (swipe/pinch to select options as well as your focus point) and continuous focus in movie mode. All 9 focus points are cross-type sensors.

$849 US.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/06/08/Canon-announces-EOS-650D-Rebel-T4i

Brilliant.

H

[gregbradley]

Hard to be interested when mirrorless cameras these days are so exciting.

DSLRs to me are either the real high end where they are still the standout for the pro/enthusiast or the mirrorless which probably mostly outperform the lower DSLRs in most areas and are nice and compact.

Fuji Xpro 1, Sony Nex 7N are very exciting and fantastic mirrorless cameras although admitedly more expensive. No AA filter in the Fuji, a clever colour lens matrix system to emulate film and not require the blurring AA filter (( after the Nikon D800E I am a big fan of cameras with no AA filter)), superb lenses much better than DSLR lenses, image quality rivalling the very very top cameras, Sony Nex7 is 24mp. Even Roland Christen is posting images using a Nex 7 on his AP175 new scopes. Its the future for sure and a logical next step to mobile phone camera users.

There are a large number of cheaper mirrorless cameras this camera would have to compete with. Sony Nex 5N is pretty "cheap" now.
Canon, Nikon V1, Olympus, etc etc all with really high specs.

Autofocus for video is on my iphone and been on Nikons for quite a while and I am sure its been on the mirrorless ones for ages.

I wonder how this DSLR stacks up against similarly priced mirrorless and if Canon has made the performance difference enough to justify the bulky size, slow FPS etc? I suspect not.


I think the trend will be DSLRs will lose ground continuously and the future of the DSLR is more at the top end like 7D on up. And that the real high end will have to break past the 35mm sensor size in the next 6 years to medium format much like we are in astro cameras.

Just my opinion of course.


Greg.

[leon]

Hmmm, interesting read Greg, and although I'm no expert have to agree with some of your points.

Leon

[Octane]

I'm sorry, I just can't get excited about mirrorless cameras. They seem like toys to me.

I need the heft of a system in my hand and to be able to peer through a beautiful bright viewfinder to enjoy what /I/ do. Just my opinion.

H

[dannat]

H find a OM-d5, handles nicely

Greg I also agree, I just want to use my Fuji x100- I know it's fixed at 35mm but it's just a pleasure to take pics with

[mithrandir]

Mirrorless does not mean it can not be a DSLR. Is a Sony SLT-a77 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyslta77) a toy?

[Octane]

That one doesn't look like a toy.

Still, I prefer the meatiness of my Canon gear (all three of my 5Ds have battery grips). Nothing like a gripped camera with a massive lens dangling off the front. I just love the weight and feel of it in my hand. As much as it does hurt the neck and back after a long day shooting a wedding.

I'm yet to see a shot out of a mirrorless camera that impresses me. Particularly skin tones.

H

[hotspur]

could be a really handy tool for more dedicated movie work,I'd like to have a go with it with my 70-200 L when calling up dingos,the video footage could be good.

[jjjnettie]

It must have been a premonition I had last week when I was trying to use the LCD screen on the back of the 550D as a touch screen.
It caused much delight to others at the time. :(

[mplanet62]

Great camera to buy after a pocket camera or bridge one, but I won't be upgrading to it from 550 model. Same sensor, same image processor... Evolutionary changes. Thanks for info, though.

[mithrandir]

I just can't decide on an a77 or hang out for an a99 later in the year. The expected a99 price will probably decide it. Full frame, 24Mpx (same sensor as Nikon D800), similar body to a77 but larger, probably in the $2500-3000 range body only.

All the Alphas from a100 on can have battery grips. Also they have in-body image stabilisation.

They aren't as chunky as Canons and probably not as durable as EOS pro bodies, and Carl Zeiss glass for them is not cheap.

[gregbradley]

D800 sensor is 36mp Sony Exmor sensor.

To make your choice harder perhaps the expected Nikon D600 would appeal. Expected to be full frame 24mp (not sure if Sony or Aptiva sensor) and price of aorund $1500.

In body image stabilisation sounds like a good feature.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

Still, I prefer the meatiness of my Canon gear (all three of my 5Ds have battery grips). Nothing like a gripped camera with a massive lens dangling off the front. I just love the weight and feel of it in my hand. As much as it does hurt the neck and back after a long day shooting a wedding.

I'm yet to see a shot out of a mirrorless camera that impresses me. Particularly skin tones.

H[/QUOTE]

Yes but you really are a pro so not really the target market for a 650D.

I haven't shot with a mirrorless myself but I am intrigued by the Fuji XPro 1 camera. The images from that are stunning. Rivals Canon and Nikon bigtime yet it also has excellent low light performance.
But this is more expensive than a 650D so not a fair comparison.

I thought Pentax K5 was king of APS DSLRs? But its more expensive again. Also Pentax has that clever star track system for its sensor so you can do long exposures without a mount.

Greg.

[Ryderscope]

The swing out screen on the 650D would be nice and could help with composing some of those hard to get at shots. Still, I've only had the 550D for 18 months, bit hard to justify upgrading so soon. Maybe I can give the 550D to my wife. Hmmm, I may have to work on this.

[mithrandir]

Rereading the "rumour", the 24Mpx chip was supposed to be in a prototype. The production one is supposed to be 36Mpx as in the D800.

[2stroke]

lol would love to get one but haven't got the coin :( It is great news the the digi 5 is now out of the box and i can see the 1200D being released soon to update the now dating 1100D. The 1200D will be my flavour as its will be used for prime focus only and a little tripod work.
Some good points greg, lol i agree alot but i buy the cannon eso budget kings for software support. I look at noise and sensor size, features are useless to me because its all done via bye or cannon utils. Show me a mirrorless that can do what a eso can do, over usb 2 at a better price and ill show you my next camera haha.
You can always remove the LP filter aka anti aliasing, lol i would with my 1100D though i cbf putting a clear in place. Thats another great thing about budget dslr you can hack them up and wont cry so much when they break. Hell at the moment i'am TEC cooling mine and then it will chew up some of the best.
Another thing budget dslrs are running rings around 3-4yrd high end models now, its all apart of tech advancements. I think people are crazy paying D800's when they will be obsolete within a coupe of years. Though its each to his own, haha I have spent thousands upon thousands, on highend pc hardware over the yrs, only to see it end up sold for next to nothing.

[Octane]

You pay big bucks for sensor real estate.

The high-end (prosumer/professional) models have far superior image quality and noise characteristics (both at the pixel level) than the consumer models.

That's not to say that they can't take beautiful pictures -- they can. But, once you've held and used a prosumer/professional system, there's really no going back.

H

[gregbradley]

I am not sure about the connectivity of mirrorless. You may be right and it may not be so easy to tether them to a computer. I'd have to check that aspect out. I was referring more to their compactness and overall feature list that often exceeds budget DSLRs. Things like 10 frames per second, HD video with AF, HDMI out, high MP high quality sensors like Nex 7's 24mp or Fuji XPro 1 special hi tech sensor which matches full frame for quality.

Its true hi tech gadgets lose value very heavily. That weighed on my mind when buying one. You want to get one early in the product cycle so you at least have it for a few years before its no longer newest and latest.

Still my D800E is the most fun and exciting camera I've gotten to date and I am very happy with it. Its still the current worlds best camera!
(a few Canon owners will disagree but its all part of the fun!).

Greg.

[Octane]

Yep, disagreed. :)

H

[Omaroo]

This is why I now have a super healthy respect for Leica. They don't bother with all the junk. They just take beautiful images in normal conditions and let you get on with composing rather than trying to find why button X isn't doing what it should according to menu item 53-4 when light falls below Y lux... they just let you get on with it. No zooms, nothing more advanced than aperture priority - and that's because focus can't be controlled other than by your index finger.

[gregbradley]

I know what you mean Chris, these DSLRs are incredibly complex.
I still didn't use all the stuff my 40D was capable of after a few years!

Greg.

[2stroke]

Agree 100% with features for sure, lol i would not call the 1100D a dslr in terms of function and features and i will probably never use it for a terrestrial camera. Though I think these types of camrea's are great for people wanting to get into dslr photography and learn how to use a dslr, lol being a point and shoot man myself i've learned a lot. I still find our cannon powershot better to use for terrestrial work, though photography is not a hobby of mine.
Lol green with envy here, its probably best i never use such a camera because its going to leave me wrecked for using low end and mid ends.

Anyhow has anyone found a good review with iso test comparisons, waiting to see how noise goes with the digi 5 processor, 75% less i've herd but wanting to see prof :)

[Bassnut]

Thats BS. I don't deny Leica quality at all, but lack of control for even more money is snobbery and plays to a sort of placebo effect, "it must be always awesome at default settings because Leica knows best". It's similar with insanely expensive audio gear that only has a volume knob. It's wanky and just a market differentiator based on arrogance and ego. The green setting on most DSLR has the same effect without the lack of versatility when you want it.

[Octane]

Fred,

Not to defend Leica and their pricing, but, I understand that you pay big bucks for premium products. They're not for everybody. However, the lack of features on the Leica systems, I suspect, has something to do with what the tool was predominantly designed for -- street photography.

Yes, you can also use a DSLR or a point-and-shoot for street, but, the Leica's are inconspicuous tools. The subject is less likely to object to having a picture taken with a tiny camera than a big-ass DSLR with a beefy lens.

Chris, is it even possible to stick a 200mm or 300mm lens on those things? I've only ever seen them with short focal length primes for wide swathes of street.

H

[Omaroo]

Fred, a bit harsh. The proof is in the pud old son. I love the images coming out of my Leica - they suit my shooting style and the raws are awesome given the intent - that typical street grunge look. The WHOLE point about street photography, if you've ever done any, is NOT to have to fiddle with dials and settings. You pre-set your average focal distance as required by hand, and let the aperture priority do the rest in accordance with the lens you have mounted and pre-set ISO. You've got about a second to compose, shoot and make it look like it wasn't you before your subject walks out of frame. A big SLR is not going to do you any favours in these situations - and neither is a sub-quality compact - even though some great street photographers have proven that "simple" is best by taking great shots with the iPhone (http://www.justwhatisee.com/). The main premise behind Leica M-series is top quality optics and mechanics in a small and inconspicuous package. To coin a crappy and overused phrase - it's the weapon of choice amongst the best street guys in the world.

As far as pricing goes, they are prohibitively expensive, yes. The latest M9 Monochrom black and white machine is bang-on ten grand, body only. A 50mm f/.96 Noctilux lens is twelve grand. Go figure. What's a Canon 1D Mark-IV worth, body-only?

Horses for courses I guess. I have't been accused of being a snob before, so you're in luck - you're the first to do so and partly get away with it. :lol:

[Omaroo]

Humayun, no,well.... not really. The longest people use are around the 105-135mm mark. You don't go picking off sheep in the far paddock with a Leica.

I'm currently looking at a 75mm f/1.8 at the moment, which is about as long as I want to go. It will do for half-body portraiture at close distance.

Having said that, I've tried my 300mm Nikkor on my M8 and it works fine. Focus is guesswork because there is no coupling to the rangefinder frame line mechanism - but it works. I've even mounted it up to my Tak 90 for laugh.