F-111 Fighter jets, a disgusting waste!

[ballaratdragons]

I find this a ridiculous waste! :mad2:
23 of the finest aircraft treated like dogs droppings!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/ipswich/raaf-base-amberley-f-111-fighter-jets-end-up-on-swanbank-landfill-site-near-ipswich/story-fn8m0yo2-1226204896564

[gregbradley]

That link doesn't work.

Greg.

[ballaratdragons]

Does now :thumbsup:

[asimov]

Works for me.

Yeah a waste Ken!

[Barrykgerdes]

So
There are many other land fill sites containing relics of previous military equipment. What is so different about this one.

I was at Amberly (NST) in 1955 we had about 6 Lincolns that were quarantined because they had been in an atomic cloud. There were also other Lincolns from the squadron that are probably used as land fill in the area somewhere.

Barry

[Deeno]

Seems a shame they couldn't preserve these remarkable machines somehow

[Omaroo]

Barry - from my perspective, I'll tell you. Within general public circles, the GD F-111 was super famous in modern times as it is remembered as the face of the RAAF to many. Even recruitment advertising tapped its allure and presented the machine as a "prize" that new recruits could aspire to flying.

It was also famous not necessarily for its capabilities per sé as a strike bomber (with are undoubted, and in many aspects unequalled), but for its spectacular air show appearances where it made the dump and burn a must-see experience. I think that it literally made many air shows over the last few decades. It was a drawcard of the first magnitude. I reckon the public related to this aircraft almost with passion. I'm certainly one that is sad to see it slide into ignominy.

If adherence to a US military contract demanding their ultimate burial was so critical due to their sensitive nuclear role, how were seven of these aircraft ever saved at all for museums? Was there something intrinsically different about these lucky few?

[hotspur]

Its just so sad:(

Its as if man has reached the peak of areospace manufacture and now going down hill,three out of the four best aircraft ever made are now gone forever-concord,shuttle,and F111,only one left 747.there is nothing that will ever come close to these.Pitty Australia could not get the F 22 raptor to replace the F111,instead of the ugly looking second grade rubbish we are getting (if we even ever get that:shrug:)

[traveller]

They could have least scrapped them for metal :shrug:
A real shame, I have seem them do their dump and burns a few times as a kid, jaw dropping stuff.

[JohnG]

It is a shame to see the 'Pig' treated this way, unfortunately this is the way for military equipment, at least they saved 7 for display. One of the boats I was on, HMAS Buccaneer was sunk as a target by NZ A-4's (ex RAN) in 1984, a rather inglorious end.

I was lucky enough to be a gunner on Patrol Boats and was subjected to a number of "anti ship strikes" by F-111's, to see one of these aircraft come in and attack you from the deck is one of the most mind numbing experiences, the noise, power and sheer shock of one of these things has to be seen to be believed, we, at least, knew they were coming, admittedly direction unknown, even then the surprise was complete, pity an enemy.....

Cheers

[Barrykgerdes]

Digressing a little.

I remember Buccaneer and all the other attack class patrol boats as well as all the Fremantle class. Seeing F111's and Mirages doing bombing runs was entertaining.

I fitted the radio gear to every attack class and was involved in every refit in Cairns (except between 1976-78). I did the same for every Fremantle. We probably crossed paths at some time.

Before we commissioned the first Cairns built boat we took it out the Grafton Passage and were the control ship for a bombing run on the old Trinity Bay. I got stuck with the job of radio operator controlling the aircraft and releasing the signal with the final resting place of Trinity Bay

Barry

PS When doing sea trials and testing the Bofors we must have frightened a lot of shipping with our break up shot.

[JohnG]

Here is a nice shot of Buccaneer for you, Barry.

LOL, BUS was real pain, if the bakerlite nose broke there was all hell to pay, complete strip down, we probably did cross paths at some stage.

Cheers

[FlashDrive]

Yes ... shame to see how these end their life.

I was at Amberley ( as a young Aircraft Engineer ) when the first 12 arrived in 1973.... What a fanfare that was ... Officer Commanding held a parade ... lot of ' pomp' and ceremony.

No's 1 and 6 Squadron were assigned these beauties ... and 482 Squadron was the maintenance facility ... also at Amberley.

Today .. I enjoy flying these ' beauties ' and doing my own ' dump and burn ' .. albeit in Microsoft Flight Simulator X.

The scenery is FTX Australia and I am flying along the Qld coast line ... and of course ... the Dump and Burn.

Hope you like it .... it's a lot of fun ... can fly the F111 anywhere in the world.... day or night.

Flash :hi:

[Barrykgerdes]

Does anyone remember the English contender (TSR2 I think it was) for the F111's role that was scrapped before it got to the build stage. It was in some ways superior but the might of the American armaments industry made sure it was canned before it could do them any harm. I had a friend who worked on it and gave me an insight on what it was projected to do.

Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

Nice picture. In the background is another old defence icon that has now gone to the detriment of Sydney to appease the Pollies and Greenies, I don't mean the type of "greenies" we were either. My other favourites were maintained there also. The Oberons. If you were an American Skipper in the war games you never messed with the Oberons.

Barry

[FlashDrive]

Yep ... I remember the TSR2 ... British prototype .. canned by the Ministry of Defense ..... enormous cost over runs was the final demise of it.

I always thought it looked a bit like the Concord ... similar appearance .

Flash :hi:

[Barrykgerdes]

Cost over runs was the given excuse but what modern aircraft has not had massive cost overruns. The F111 also had massive cost overruns.

Barry

[FlashDrive]

That's true Barry. :hi:

[wasyoungonce]

I remember the overhauling F111 G sensors. I could get them to .1G accuracy....well that was the spec but we used to get abound 1/2 that. These were about the size of a bake-bean can. I was proud of getting better than specs.

Then, with the new pavetack repair facility we were using pizeo G (acceleration) sensors that were sealed and much cheaper, smaller (around thumbnail size) and accurate to .01 of a G! Flap me! I couldn't believe it.

Newer aircraft can afford luxuries of poorer aerodynamics (compared to the F111) as they have higher power smaller engines and advanced flight controls.

An F18 losing all of the outer 1/3 wing, from the wing fold joint outwards) and still flew back ok. An F18 losing a flap...a major piece of wing surface used all the time in flight...and flew back ok...the marvels of modern systems.

This would never happen on an F111.

Still it was sad to see the demise of the old girl. Everyone who was involved with it remembers the pig fondly ....a class act as they say.

But times have moved ahead! Less class more capabilities!

[Miaplacidus]

A sign of the times. With so much conflict in the world today, it is inevitable that the beautiful and quaint peace-keeping machinery of a bygone era finds its way back into the soil from whence it came.

[Ric]

That's sad to see them dumped like that.

I hope at least one is earmarked for display at the Australian War Memorial.

[JohnG]

As a certain skipper of a certain american aircraft carrier found out :lol:. Nice picture of his screws.....

We were credited with an american DDG during wargames, didn't see us until it was to late :).

Cheers

[FlashDrive]

Just a few ..!!

Flash :hi:

[Trixie]

What a shame they couldn't have been donated to museums. There is a fantastic little fighter jet museum at parafield airport in Adelaide. They have a Mirage and a Sabre there and the men running it were fantastic. The even let my sons sit in the planes which made their day and the boys still talk about it. My youngest had his birthday there and says it was the best day ever. I can just imagine what raptures they would be in if the got to see a F-111.

[gregbradley]

Gross.

Doesn't some underdeveloped country want to buy them?

Greg.

[Omaroo]

LOL.. That may breach the contract with the USA Greg. It was at their behest that the machines were buried tens of metres underground. I somehow doubt they'd want to see us sell them off to an unstable and underdeveloped regime... :lol:

[Barrykgerdes]

Yes it is depressing to see these items of military equipment destroyed but that is the way.

I have watched some of the naval equipment that I spent hours of blood and sweat on (no tears) plus all night sessions to make them ready for deployment, sunk. They did make lovely footage for the gallery and news media when their service life was over.

What Chris says is correct. The contract we bought them under called for this when their life was over.

Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

When ever war games were on the enemy was always selected from the patrol boat fleet and the subs. They were supposed to get beaten but they never counted on our boats not playing completely by the rules and our small specialist task forces very often had the last laugh. That poor captain mentioned above never commanded a ship again to my knowledge.

Barry

[JohnG]

Someone forgot to tell us our Battle Life Expectancy was only 30 seconds :lol:. We had an ex WW2 skipper on that simulation, the DDG had no hope, yanks complained that we cheated, naturally, we still got the kill though....

[bartman]

I certainly don't like that news feed at all......
Donate toMuseums around the world +1
scrap metal yard and recycle +1
So much more you can do with the body's than just burrying them in some land fill....
I agree " a disgusting waste"!!!!!!
Batman

[Omaroo]

They weren't allowed to anything else Bart.

[bartman]

Guessing a full stop and ?mark was meant to be in there Chris....:P
yep the next thing to do with them.... take the starter buttons out and put them up on poles at various Air Bases....
Bartman;)

[astroron]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about:shrug:
Hundreds of different Aircraft over the years have reached their "Use By Date" and just turned to scrap or buried.
That there is a few going to be saved as Museum displays is good enough :)
There are still lots of them in Mothballs in the USA and will probably be there for a long time to come.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[bartman]

Not complaining Hans, just thinking of a better way to dispose of something that could be recyclable/ recycled...one way or another.
You say " an ever decreasing budget".......How much is the current budget compared to the current cost of transporting them to a metal scrap yard ( of some sort) and then compare it to the cost of digging a hole and transporting the bodies to that hole and then covering them up.....take a breath Bart...yes I know....

Dont get me wrong...I'm not dissing the ADF :sadeyes:
Bartman

[bartman]

Those massive plane grave yards should have a temp smelter of some sort.....back up parts? well build a warehouse and put those bits in there.
aluminum can recycle is still alive ?

[Omaroo]

It was a statement, not a question Bart. When the RAAF bought these aircraft from the US they signed a contract stipulating that the airframes were to be buried in a prescribed manner upon cessation of duty. They are considered sensitive to national security - even in pieces - and Thiess, who was awarded the burial contract, had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get the gig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80OadL7f8Lo

[bartman]

k Fair enough . Thanks Chris.
Bartman

[ballaratdragons]

Regardless of contracts, and what had to be, it's not easy to watch them get buried.

Multiple Billions of dollars of tanks, trucks, planes, heli's etc have been pushed overboard ship returning from several wars, and always seems a waste.

An old friend said he vividly remembers pushing Iriquois Heli's, Trucks, Personell carriers, and large guns into the Ocean on the way back from Vietnam, and considered it a shocking waste back then.

Yes, we have to do what the mighty supremo US of A says :rolleyes:
but it is still hard to watch such a stunning part of my life's history and memories get buried like wretched vermin.
I believe I am entitled to feel a bit angry and sad at seeing something that meant so much to me treated this way.

At least Point Cook has 2 of them for restoration :thumbsup:
I saw them only a few weeks ago. One nicely housed, the other is dumped outside in deplorable condition. But one day it will shine again :)

Sentimental? You bet!

[Omaroo]

Yep, me too. It's not too difficult to feel that machines like this, which have done their duty and protected us over decades, have (and I'm not religious in the slightest) something resembling the notion of a "soul".

[FlashDrive]

I'm led to believe ( and someone can correct me .. if this has changed ) .. that the ' life ' of ANY aircraft is based on it's ' airframe flying hours '.

A bit like saying ... ok ...this brand new aeroplane can be in the air for 50,000 hours .... after that .. IT'S GROUNDED ...regardless.

It is now deemed not to be ' AIRWORTHY ' for service.

Strip it down for serviceable parts etc ... scrap it ... or whatever.

Apparently ... it's all about the Airframe. ( or was )

Flash :hi:

[acropolite]

Colin, to some extent that's true but the old adage is that the aircraft is only as old as it's last overhaul, wing spars in some cases are rated for a certain lifespan, when the aircraft has reached that time often it's prohibitively expensive to replace such components, but there is no reason an Aircraft can't fly indefinitely provided each component is replaced when it becomes time expired.

Lycoming Engines for example in your average Cessa are rated for TB0 of around 2000 hours depending on observed wear over that period.

There's no reason why most aircraft can't fly indefinitely, the limiting factors are cost and availability of replacement parts.

[ballaratdragons]

I don't care what model. :lol:

For frigs sake, I can't even say I'm a sentimental old fool. Do I really need to justify my own emotions?
I really don't know why I bother posting some comments sometimes :rolleyes:

[FlashDrive]

Sure ... I quite agree ... TBO ( Time Before Overhaul ) is often ' written ' in the maintenence procedures of any Engine/Airframe component ... by the Manufacturer of the said item .

Some are even subject to what is called ' on condition ' ... if it operates correctly .... then don't replace it.

Yes ... you could keep replacing Airframe / Engine parts and keep it flying ... and they do ... eg: just look around at any airshow and you'll see plenty of ' Historic ' planes gracing the skies.

And ... you are right ... it becomes very expensive to maintain ' Air Worthiness ' on an Aircraft as it ages.

Flash ..:hi:

[Barrykgerdes]

Submarines have a use by date

Barry

[Paul Haese]

I am not so sure the guys who had to go inside the fuel tanks on these things and seal them with a sealant that has caused many of them to contract cancer or some other affliction would be sorry to see them go.

Yes it was a long serviced plane, but It has caused some real problems to service personel and their families.