Insane Petrol prices

[icytailmark]

just filled up with E10 $1.56 per litre. When will it end? Its gunna get to a point where half your pay packet will be spent just on getting to work. I really feel sorry for taxi drivers

[ballaratdragons]

Between 1.46 and 1.49 around here.

Lower than yours but still way to high.

[skysurfer]

Well that's "cheap" !

Here in Holland you pay EUR 1.76 per liter, which is more than AU$ 2 !
The most expensive of Europe !

Here a comparison of gas prices:

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

[AndrewJ]

All you need to know is that in this world of today
( as run by bankers, politicians and other scrofulous miscreants )
the only way you can get something cheap is to pay
more for it.
Once you understand that,
occupying your place at the bottom of the wealth pyramid
wont seem half so hard.

Andrew

[AndrewJ]

Yeah, but even at that price it still only takes $2 to drive across Holland :D

Andrew

who drove across it in an hour in 1986 :rolleyes:

[omegacrux]

$1.55 for standard ulp here in NW Tas , least we don't have traffic problems, no rush hour where I live ,10ks to work in 12 mins

[Stardrifter_WA]

The only reason we are not paying over $2 a litre is the strength of the Australian dollar. When that devalues....oops! :sadeyes:

[pgc hunter]

LPG here went from 52c a litre in January, to 80c now. What a crock, this is just criminal. I am now paying over $40 to fill up my car, when less than 2 months ago I was barely hitting $30 for a full tank. :mad2:

There's no point in getting a conversion done anymore, when you consider that LPG is about 30% less efficient to run on. When it was a third the cost of petrol, you would still be saving heaps, but now, forget it.

It is even more sick when the govt keeps spewing the green mantra, greener fuels, greener living blah blah blah (all BS - just a cover up for their own stuff ups), then the price of our cleanest automobile fuel ALMOST DOUBLES. They're all a bunch of manky swine, the lot of 'em.

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[supernova1965]

Unfortunately it is something we will need to get used to in the coming decade as oil supplies start to run low. It is believed that we are already at or have past peak oil. That is why we need to move to other fuels for our transportation needs. Like this plane that has been flying for some time on solar. (http://www.solarimpulse.com/)

[supernova1965]

and here are two drag races between an electric car and a porsche and ferrari

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqqtJpfZElQ

[ballaratdragons]

In that link: All prices updated March, 2005.

so it is probably even worse.

[asimov]

Don't drive then lol.

[TrevorW]

12c a gallon in Venezuela what gives ????

[Omaroo]

I work from home these days. I used to drive 70km each way to work up the M5 in Sydney to the North Sore. That's 850km per week allowing for parking and getting around to meetings. My diesel vehicle (Landrover) consumes 9-10l/100km on average, and 12 l/100km in the city. That's 100-odd litres - before I even think about weekends. The Landrover isn't the most frugal, but for what it is it actually isn't too bad. My weekend lifestyle requires it. There are sedans that use far more fuel then I do.

Tolls are $4.40 going north on the M5, $5.50 for the Eastern Distributor, $4.00 for the Bridge going south and again $4.40 for the M5 south back home. That's $18.30 in tolls each work day or $91.50 per week.

That's a total of some $250 per week just to get to work at today's fuel price.

I used to do this. I don't any more. Some would say it's social engineering at work. :shrug:

[clive milne]

No... this comment is total BS.

[brian nordstrom]

:mad2: $1.85c here in Darwin ....
Brian.

[brian nordstrom]

:mad2: Peter see my last post , we are nearly there ( $2 ) , and all our fuel comes fron Singapore , I cant believe any thing else , except pure GREED !!!:mad2: as we up here in Darwin are closer than the rest of OZ ??? We have a shipping terminal here , directly shipped .. Greedy Ba$!a,,,ds .
Brian.

[jenchris]

Keep buying Chinese stuff and it'll go up some more - they use all the fuel now - there's more coming out of the ground than there ever was.
Now India and China are buying it.
If we don't sell it to them, they take it.
That's why they're being nice to Iran and Syria

[brian nordstrom]

:thanx: and thanks Jen , what a sorry world we live in , if thats the case .
But Hey ! on the bright side , ...:question: ,, :question: .I might get a 5% pay rise this year ??? ...:mad2:..
Brian.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hey Brian, it's not greed. It is simply supply and demand! China and India need more fuel than ever and are creating a huge demand. :) I don't like it one little bit, but that is the way of the world, unfortunately.

Cheers Peter

[Kal]

Meh, when there was cheap fuel in the past most people loved driving gas guzzlers. It hits my hip pocket as well, but I'd happily pay double the current fuel price if it is the only way to change peoples consumption to a more sustainable level.

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Peter , some one some were, is getting a whole lot fatter , on us , so this boils down to human , greed .
:hi:. ugly mother that one .
cuts deep .
Oh well . I seen and lived thru the almost exact socal experement , using petrol prices , cuts to the bone.
Ground root's of society .
It worked in NZ , and is been expanded into Austraila ...
Greed , yes mate I think:question: so .deja vue. Sorry to say ....not tel vue ..
Brian.

[KenGee]

All I can say is how silly some people are not only do they want to live in a feed lot ie Sydney that you even prepaired to pay extra to do it. lol
$1:80 here.

[pgc hunter]

well then stuff ya. Go and walk the 20km to work then for eff's sake.

unleaded atm here is about $1.37 /litre, but going by the posts here, it seems like $1.50 or more is more common. A sad state of affairs.

[pgc hunter]

I wish.. PT makes sense for trips into the city, as car parking is beyond a rip off, and that's if you can find it, plus fuel... but for trips to the suburbs it is woefully inadequete so the car reigns king. I always caught the train to the city to tafe, even though it was an hour trip, it was much cheaper and a lot more convenient than driving. But, if you want to go from suburb to suburb, a car is pretty much the only way.




no way!!??

[marki]

Do remember a large amount of the cost is due to state and federal govt taxs but still I don't care if crude goes through the roof because quite frankly it is far too precious a resource to simply pour out the back of an exhaust pipe. Higher cost = less use so its all good with me. Buy a pushbike and get fit :P:D.

Mark

[Baddad]

Hi pgc Hunter and others.

The article below will explain a lot.
This greedy (deleted) decided to increase taxation on an environmentally friendly fuel.
Make up your own mind after reading the article.
7 years ago it cost only $15 to fill my tank from empty. Now its $64. @ $0.899 /ltr.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/lpg-price-set-to-soar-under-tax-changes-20110523-1f0pk.html

[pgc hunter]

hit the nail on the head, we are being taxed to bankruptcy by our current govt as a direct result of gross incompetence and waste at both federal and state level in the last few years. The Carbon Tax is not to "save the environment"... . I would go into more detail, but will end it there.

LPG going up 30c in a couple of months... yeah there is only one explanation....

[Poita]

Petrol is cheap, coca cola costs way more. Coffee costs way more. Most things cost way more. It is also cheaper here than in many other 1st world countries.
It is about $1.60 a litre here. Yes it is heavily taxed, but I like having roads to drive on and hospitals to go to and somewhere my kids can get educated.

I moved closer to my work. I don't drive a 4WD. I bought a pushbike and use it as often as I can, I cut my fuel consumption by 60% from last year. Petrol will get more expensive, so will electricity and other energy costs as the true cost of them starts to bite and we have to pay the real prices.
We will probably have to change our lifestyles a little.
A volkswagon golf uses 4l per 100km, so it costs $6.40 to travel that far, that is pretty cheap. My car uses 8l so it costs me $12.80, still cheap.
My mate's landcruiser averages 16.5l per hundred, so it will set him back $26.40
I see a lot of big cars with single people in them choofing around the city day to day, with every 100km costing $20 more than in a golf, that really is money to burn.

[pgc hunter]

speaking of coke... a 24 pack slab went from $13 in Dec to $18.62..... or from 48c/can to nearly 80c/can at Big W currently. The Big W where I work has less customers than staff, stock is sitting in the back dock going rotten, no one is buying anything, no one can afford this BS anymore. :mad2:

Just tonight I had to get rid of a whole palllet of chips, coz they just go off coz no one is buying them. They aren't getting sold. No one can afford to go bloody shoppping anymore. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[brian nordstrom]

:) It was $2.00 a litre 4 years ago when I left NZ , It's a ' comming '.to OZ . The Greed Monster .
;).
Brian.

[brian nordstrom]

:hi: thirsty ,,, 50 liters of " coke " wont get me to Alice Springs in 9 hours ... I would rather drive , how about you ? .
Brian. :lol: .

[Poita]

Well, I guess it is different place to place, our BigW is packed, I do nightfill there and haven't ever had to pull drygoods off the shelf that weren't so,me specialist item.
80c a can isn't bad, people pay over $2 at the servo.
I don't earn much, just under $30K a year, but I can feed my 3 kids and myself pretty well, we can still afford to go shopping. I run no debt except for my growing HECS. We have to be a bit choosy sometimes, but just about anyone on these forums is doing reasonably okay. We at a minimum just by being here have computers, and internet and a hobby that is an indulgence.
Prices seem cheaper to me on most things than they were 10 years ago. Computers, telescopes, TVs (55" 3D for $800!?!) , clothes, internet, cameras, electronics in general are all way more affordable *and* better featured than back then. Food and petrol has gone up, but not to the point that I can't afford to eat pretty well.

The amount of takeaway coffee and takeaway lunch/snacks I see people have in the street tends to make me think that we aren't on the breadline yet.

[Poita]

If I drank 50litres of coke I reckon I'd make it to Alice in under 9 hours on foot and be waiting for you at the bar!

[brian nordstrom]

:welcome::P still cheeper than a brick wall .
Brian .

[brian nordstrom]

:rolleyes:;) the vampires are out $40 was not 1/4 my tank.
Brian.:thumbsup:

[AndrewJ]

Just heard on the radio that it went up 20c/l overnight in Melb.???
Cant say there isnt something funny going on.
( Ooohhh forgot, Easters coming )
Perhaps all the unemployed property speculators have moved into oil.

Andrew

[mithrandir]

For me $40 has not been 1/4 of a tank in the last 7 years. It was over $220 for almost a tank in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. It is a slightly larger tank - 180 litres.

[jenchris]

My car (Mazda 3 2lite) does 6.9l/100k. That approx 10cents a km.
I service it myself so that costs about 40 dollars per 5000k so add another 1c per k.
I can't think of a more efficient way of traveling - trains empty or full use enough fuel to pull 3 carriages at 100km/h. Since they are only full at peak times, then it is wasteful.
I refuse to pay for parking, that's a greed tax.

Easiest solution - staggered working hours - no peak times, smaller trains, no parking problems. Turn off street lights and use LED sensor lighting. stop producing mini flouros - they're environment poison.
Decentralise and work from home.

[Poita]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous

[Ric]

I find it a joke that my wife filled up last Thursday for $1.57 a litre. I filled up last Friday for a $1.63 a litre.

Lo and behold, I topped up on Monday morning and it was $1.57 a litre again.

This has been going on as long as I've been riding (33 years) and it is accepted as normal.

Tell me thats not pure and simple greed.

[AstralTraveller]

The restructuring of our cities that occurred in the age of cheap (er) fuel has a lot to answer for. People used to live very near where they worked but now they travel considerable distances. I'm not suggesting that living 500m from the gate of a filthy factory is the answer but when you hear of people commuting from Nowra to Sydney you know that isn't sustainable either.

I'd be interested to know what sort of km people who commute do each year. I'm luck enough (or well organised enough??) that I can walk to work or get on the free bus. My wife works from home or get the train to Sydney (we live 5 min from the station). Our car averages about 10,000km per year. Of that about a third will be on annual leave and much of the rest will be weekend trips or observing nights (a very small item recently). Only a minority is visiting friends/relatives or going shopping etc. That is why we can afford to run a 4WD which will take us to the places we like to visit on holidays.

I know organising life this way isn't easy and only a minority can achieve it at the moment. However we really must address the issues of (1) so many people traveling so far every day and (2) them being basically compelled to do it in such an inefficient manner.

[Ric]

Hi David

I have a farm outside of Canberra and travel around 400 km a week to work and back and average around 20,000 km a year on my bike. My wife does about the same in her car as well. Unfortunately different work areas and start times make it very difficult for us to share the car or the bike. Out our way there is no bus service but it wouldn't matter anyway as the cost of bus tickets make it cheaper to take the vehicles anyway.

Fortunately the sales of eggs and honey at the local markets and to people at work pays for a bit of the petrol costs but not much though, probably around 25 - 30%

[TrevorW]

Yeah but Govt(s) still expand cities making affordable land in outer suburbs where people travel over 70klms one way to work, when large tracts of inner city land goes unused.

This isn't about improving our lives or making things cheaper for us it is about making the rich richer. Motor vehicles in Australia IMO are a necessary not a luxury. Current public transport systems don't provide direct, speedy, reliable, comfortable travel.

Example in WA the other day due to a fault on the rail system(s) thousands of early morning train patrons could not get to work for over 1/2 a day (no contigency plan to cater for such an emergency)

The Govt said they'd refund all their train fares, a token pittance as it would have cost business millions $$$ in lost man hours.

We produce more LPG than we can used but look at the price of gas.

[Poita]

I used to do the accounts for petrol stations, and I can assure you they make very little off the fuel. They make most of their money off the extra items people buy in the shop. They would have one of the smallest margins of any retailers. Now the oil companies make good money, but it isn't the petrol station retailer that sees much of it.

[kevy02]

Don't get me started, how about the prices we pay for electricity and gas, and thats about to get a lot worse when the carbon tax kicks in .

:(

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hey Kev, there is an adage that says "there are two things certain in life, death and taxes". Old saying, but still applies, unfortunately. Everything goes up, rarely down (except for electronics). I can remember when fuel was about 4 shillings (40c) a gallon (4.5 litres); and I couldn't afford to buy it then either :sadeyes:

[bartman]

In Holland we used to go from Utrecht to Amsterdam ~30k's and would take 30-40 mins depending on traffic by car. Perth to the Vines is slightly less than 30k's but takes about the same time.
However, take a train from Utrecht to Amsterdam and youll be there in less time and less pollution.
Try and take a train/ bus to the Vines from Perth and tell me how long it would take you! ( and if youll get there at all).
Taxi $40......thats if it arrives....
I believe in Holland you can pretty much get anywhere anytime via public transport.(please correct me if I'm wrong)



????? Even if Holland was only 100ks across and your car did like Jens car(see below) it would be well over $13....and btw the major roads in Holland during peak periods are packed and almost at a standstill.:confused2:
I kinda get what you mean thou Andrew:D:thumbsup:


Bartman

[Saturn%5]

A new servo opened down the road from me last week, I got fuel on friday $ 1.43 over the weekend it was $1.58 and then monday it was back at $1.43 guess we just have to shop around. :shrug:

[Stardrifter_WA]

In Western Australia that is getting harder and harder as the two supermarket chains are consuming all the independent stations. Has anyone else noticed that Coles and Woolworth stations always seem to have the same price. No competition means more costly fuel.

[Ric]

Hi Peter

If they make very little off the petrol then why does it always go up then :question:

Cheers

[icytailmark]

what happens to the people that rely on a car to get around and have no other choice?

[Saturn%5]

Seems that way down here Peter, but what suprised me was it was and independent.

[AndrewJ]

I did say it was 1986 ( and it was close to midnight ),
so virtually no traffic ( or little green men in green and white cars ).
Went from Amsterdam to Kiel in a very short time:question:

Hmmm, probably didnt get very good economy on that trip.

Andrew

[Marke]

Diesel $1.43 atm :thumbsup:

[mithrandir]

Where Mark? Diesel cost me $1.56 the other day? Do they have fast-flow?

[pgc hunter]

yup, now $1.59 :rolleyes::screwy:

[Stardrifter_WA]

The independent station near me is, consistently, 3-4c cheaper than either Coles or Woolworths. Seems to me they are adding the 4c before the discount, so you are really paying the normal price. Makes me wonder about those that fill up at Coles or Woolworths stations without a discount voucher, whether they are paying too much. I will continue to use the independent, but I am told he is to become another , so called, discount station. :mad2:

[pgc hunter]

Those discount vouchers are a scam. I remember over Christmas Coles was offering 8c a litre discount. Suddenly, petrol cost about 8c more than usual. When the "offer" ended, the price magically fell by a similar amount to around the original price.

[Stardrifter_WA]

My point exactly :D

[GrahamL]

I'm sure you'd likely find the other guy has as many fingers in the pie as
well, so if your feeling a little down on the price of fuel and buy some booze , snacks , and fill up the gas bottle on the way home , oh and decide to drop some coins into the pokies at the liscenced premises your visiting
dont think to hard bout whos the winner in the end . :D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesfarmers

[KenGee]

I just don't get the moaning about fuel prices or the cost of power, for the average household these bills are tiny compared to house prices or renting in large cities. We have far more control over our utility bills then we do many of our other bills. In the end the answer in Australia is easy, move to the bush, dark skies, clean air and cheap housing

[Hagar]

Pretty easy to understand the moaning from where I sit. Like you I live outside major city and pay through the nose for products which all have to be freighted into town. You may even be better off than me being in at least a significant sized centre.
Australia overall is paying far more for power and fuel than almost any other weatern civilized country. From memory Germany and Norway beat us on both counts but then again they also have a higher income.
The cost to produce electricity is almost the same as it was 10 years ago and the wholesale price of electricity is also stil quite similar to that of 10 years back but the retail cost has almost tripled.

Fair grounds to moan in mybook.
Try running a car and paying for heating and cooling with electricity where I live on a pension. Plenty of the oldies here do but believe me most struggle.
Between Government and Big companies the only people doing it easy are the executives who live off the pain of the ordinary working person.

Keep moaning folks.Maybe one day someone will listen.

[strongmanmike]

It's good to have a moan and a whine every now and then sure but it's important to never lose sight of reality.

Regardless of some concern over fuel prices, living in Australia puts us in the official 2nd best country on the planet (tiny fraction behind the No1) and that's no trivial reality folks.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/PR2-HDI-2011HDR-English.pdf

Things are not that bad at all, no matter how hard anyone bellows and rants to the contrary..... and regardless of the price, at least you have the fuel anytime and anywhere you want :)

Time to smell the whole bed of roses instead of just complaining about the odd weed :love2:.

Mike

[Hagar]

So i asssume you are trying to say that because Australia is affluent we should pay much more than a less affluent nation even though the profit goes to big international companies and in a lot of cases off shore.
I don';t know about you but my employer won't pay my salary into the same or similar offshore accounts.
Why should oil taken from the ground in Australia be sold to us based on a price set by greedy companies in Singapore with the bulk of the profit going to Government as usual.
We see the likes of Jerry Harvey complaining about people purchasing goods from OS at reduced prices and complaining that we should all buy Australian only o find his stores are full of imported goods. The hipocracy in his complaining is that he is only interested in his bottom line and the income in his pocket. Why then is it OK for the likes of Harvey Norman to moan and groan and then set up an offshore company and it to be just the people having a winge again. Reality is the daily reduction in our pockets contents. A hanky to mop up the tears might be handy.

[strongmanmike]

It's easy to let yourself be bitter when you have nothing to compare your standard of life to...or perhaps forget to.

I don't like the dollars rotating on the pump, or anywhere else, any more than the next person and role my eyes at the Clive Palmers and Jerry Harveys but fair suck, I look at the view from my window over Newcastle... and then in my beer fridge :lol: I look at my son undertaking pilot training or my wife making a good spaghetti and meatballs (yum) then while I am sitting at my laptop in front of my beautiful telescope under a clear moonless sky I remember I am alive and just how good I have it regardless.

Life is too short to forget the really important things :thumbsup:.

Mike

[peter_4059]

Shell is closing Clyde refinery this year, Mobil has closed Port Stanvac and Altona is running at half capacity, Caltex are reviewing the future of Kurnell and Lytton. If there was so much money in the oil business why wouldn't all these companies be expanding production?

[Hagar]

I hear what you are saying Mike and agree that it is easy to loose sight of what is good around us.
We are of course both at slightly different places in our lives. I have put 2 kids through 4 years each of university in Melbourne and Wagga Wagga, worked long hours for years, finally move into a senior position at work which I had hoped would set me up for retirement. I now look at everything escalating in price far faster than my wage is growing, see governments taxing us to death, Health insurance increases, petrol increases, electricity increases, Queensland flood taxes and just about every other billincreasing by significantly more than my salary.
I do get somewhat dishaertened and after working for 41 years full time, now wonder if my dreams can be fullfilled before some other greedy ******* empties my pockets fully.

Termites might beat all of them yet. Seems they are still eating my house.

[Hagar]

Because they can do it cheaper in India and China. Why are our banks doing the same with their staff. All the call centers around Aus are now off shore. The list goes on and we just let it happen.
If oil processing is done off shore we have less control on price than we do now even though price controlis moderatedby a toothless tiger already.

[strongmanmike]

Go hire this and have a good laugh ;)

[Hagar]

Got it in one and getting grumpier by the day.:thanx:

[peter_4059]

Doug - there is no "control" on price. The wholesale fuel price in Australia is import parity price - ie if it is cheaper to import than to make it in Australia it will be imported. This means the consumer gets it at the lowest market price. The price is set by supply and demand in the region (ie south east Asia). The only "local" factors are the excise, GST and whatever margin the retailer can make. As Poita points out the retail margin is very small.

Here's a couple of articles that might be of interest if you believe the big oil companies are making a lot of money:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/future-of-caltex-refining-in-doubt-20111216-1oym3.html

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3189616.htm

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Australia-English/PA/news_releases_20090625.aspx

[pgc hunter]

It's the criminal increases in the cost of these basic utilities that people are moaning about... and the fact that a lot of it is the result of avoidable government incompetence. People are going bankrupt because of pathetic waste and mismanagement on this dog's breakfast federal government's behalf.

Hagar has hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, though, none of the fat cats in parliament will listen to the average suffering family or pensioner. They are too busy plowing through their traditional sunday roast of $100 bills. Our present federal govt being a classic example...

And Strongmanmike... I recently went to Hungary... and well, to say the least, it is a deplorable state of affairs there.... but here, this country is quickly heading that way. Job losses, exponential increases to cost of living everywhere you look, criminalising the most effective cash cow-the motorist, making doing less than walking pace over the speed limit an "offence" worth a fine inexcess of $150; endless new taxes imposed on us as the "solution" to everything; no money for infrastructure due to endless waste ; "sin taxes" to try and control people's behaviour; the endless bubble wrapping of society... being masqueraded as crap such as "stopping global warming" blah blah blah to hide the disasters of this government's inept policies.... this country is going down the S-bend faster than you can say where the bloody hell has my former quality of life got too?

[peter_4059]

Doug - I don't think Shell, Caltex or Mobil have any refining assets in China or India - correct me if I'm wrong.

[strongmanmike]

Sorry but the comparative global reality simply doesn't agree with you, in fact our standing has only improved :)

:question:...Oh well, you keep on seeing the glass half empty and I'll just keep smelling the roses :lol:

All good :thumbsup:

[pgc hunter]

yah whatever. clearly you dont drive or have to support a family in a home with a mortgage on a crappy wage which requires electricity and water in order to provide a basic quality of life.

But on the other hand, you can afford a a refractor more expensive than most people's cars, so I guess that the average battler is not in your league. Keep sniffing those roses mate, the rest of us week-to -week workers and pensioners will continue to stay in touch with reality.


:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Sorry Warren, but that is not correct.

In Alberta Canada alone they have more oil in just one Oil Sand well than most of the oil countries in the all of the Middle East.
The Oil from this single Oil Sand well can supply Oil for the next 150 years.

And that may increase when they learn how to extract it even better!

And they already have discovered 3 of these Sand Oil deposits. The above quote is the stats from just one.

So the world isn't about to run out of oil any time soon :thumbsup:

Here is a good read: http://environment.gov.ab.ca/info/library/8042.pdf

[strongmanmike]

...gee that's fair :rolleyes:

[Keltik]

The stupid thing is, if more governments worldwide put some serious effort into renewable energy and electric cars, petrol usage would drop and perversely the price would come down. As my old ma used to say, you can't have your penny AND your bun.
I drive 500+ kms a week for work, and the mantra here is: Make Someone Else Pay For It.

[Barrykgerdes]

While I hate having to pay higher and higher prices for petrol the current price is still relatively less than it was when I first started driving 60 years ago. A gallon of petrol in 1953 was 3/10. Average wage was about 9 pounds about 2.1% of the weekly wage

Current price of 672 c pergallon is only 1.4% of the average wage at $500 per week.

In addition to this cars do closer to 30 MPG now compared to 16 MPG in 1953 for an equivalent size of car.

Pardon me for using imperial measures. Do your own conversions if necessary. Get used to it! It will go a lot higher yet.

Barry

[Marke]

West Ryde indapendent and yes they have fast flow :)

[Hagar]

Your articles say it all. Caltex just a retailer, the others can't compete with Asia so will shut up shop and buy from Asia. What does our governments do, absolutely nothing, just keep tax and excise at levels which make it unrealistic to produce in Australia.

Thanks for those Peter.

[jenchris]

Keatings 'level playing field' made me more than a little angry.
He dropped import tariffs and all the other countries kept them - so you could import anything for nothing but nobody wold let you export anything.
And the federal slogan, 'don't upset other countries they might make it hard for us' is wasting our mining and land.
First thing to do is to make all land owned by foreign nationals leasehold with a huge tax or rates. All mining is to be taxed at high levels to stop stripping of our assets.
Save our Fracking gas til it is worth something.

[Paul Haese]

Wanna drop petrol prices in a week?

Those of you that drive into a capital city from the suburbs every day of the working week do this. Catch the god damn public transport, you're all clogging up the roads. Even in Adelaide tradesman cannot get around because of all the knobs driving their barge arse four wheel drives that have never seen off road that chew petrol like a tobacco chewer on nitro, not to mention the nitwits drivin their V8's and everyone of them just sitting in a line up for an hour or two. Is everyone brain dead now?

Everytime I have to go out to a building site in the mornings at 730am the roads are clogged with idiots driving a car with one person in it and heading to the same location every sinle day. Public transport heads mostly to the one place everyday. If you use it they have to increase the services, it is cheaper than driving (don't forget the wear and tear on your car is a cost too) and you get some exercise when you get to the central hub.

That is why petrol prices are so high. Stop using the petrol and the price will drop in a week and even further in a month. It is simple supply and demand. :screwy:

[Marke]

Hmm Paul a bit harsh , which would you prefer 1.5hr each way because you
dont have adaquate public transport or 25min in the car ? My time is too vauable to waste when working almost 6 days a week.

[Barrykgerdes]

What's wrong with Castle Hill public transport. I use it all the time on my $2.50 ticket :thumbsup::P. Beats driving. My place to Central railway 60 mins off peak and 80 mins peak 617X:thumbsup:

Barry

PS Why does just about everyone want to drive big SUV's when small cars do the job.

[Barrykgerdes]

Jennifer has the answer. but she has also missed out on another big problem the ease of making on line purchases from overseas. You may think you are getting somthing cheap but while we have a deficit if you don't pay immediately the interest compounds and in a few years you still owe twice the original cost.

Oh well who cares it is the grand children that will end up with the debt!

Electricity prices are a good indication of poor management. We had a system that ran at a profit feeding our money back into the country. We sold them off to O/S companies who borrowed money to buy them. They immediately had to put the prices up to service the debt before they could make any money that will be sent O/S anyway.

Another stupid govt decission a few years ago was to pay out the loan for the harbour bridge to make them look good politically. The loan was at a very low interest and the govt borrowed at a much higher rate to pay it off.

First rule of eccconomics don't sell a business that costs you nothing and runs at a profit.

Barry

[mithrandir]

Providing all you want to take is yourself, can travel off-peak and you have a Senior's Card, it's fine. Once you have to take some gear it's not practical. It's only supposed to be "a few years" until I have a train station 300m from my front door, and I'll have a Senior's Card too.

So you suggest we all have a micro car for day to day and a SUV for when you want take stuff that won't fit in the car?

[GrampianStars]

Yep I have 8 years ago pristine DARK sky, NOW council rates higher, housing costs the same, land is cheaper , power costs higher, fuel $1.65/Lt yesterday, food costs higher, wouldn't go back to the smokey though!!!

[Barrykgerdes]

No do your costing/usage sums and just get rid of the SUV

Any gear I need to transport I can get in a small car, even my lightbridge 16" can be carried in my Fiesta. If its too big for thatI can get a carrier to move it. One of costs beat the depreciation and maintenance of a big car.

Incidentally I have a station wagon and trailer that I can use if necessary. Fully depreciated. maintenance, insurance and rego is the killer at about $2000 (50c/KM for the use it gets)

The 617X bus service is 300 metres from my door.The nearest railway station will be 2KMs. As an example I needed to pick up some gear from the QVB. I left home at 10:20, got to the QVB at 11:30 did my shopping caught the bus back at 11:57 and was home at 13:10. I can't beat that by car at any time. The best car/train time is 45mins (normally about 60 mins) to Artarmon train to city 20 mins (with waiting time)

Barry

[Omaroo]

Let's see you car make it down my driveway in Cooma Barry.

[Hagar]

Barry come on there is some who need a bigger vehicle for lifestyle or just to live. Try pulling my Caravan with your Fiesta. 2.5T of van behind the Fiesta would be illegal before you start.
The Fiesta wouldn't pull the skin off a sausage let alone move the van.

[Barrykgerdes]

I have a wagon that can pull my caravan but the caravan is parked long term at Wiruna.

I gave up caravaning in 1958 when I found out that I could have stayed in comfort in motels for less than the real cost of caravanning.

As for a lifestyle that requires those things and you can afford it go for it and don't worry about the cost of petrol.

I have done my share of travelling (at your expense like the pollies) so I have no wish to do any more unnecessarily. Even so I will be off to London for the Chelsea Flower show in May-June.


Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

I haven't seen your drive way but provided there is enough traction to get up it I am sure I could get down:lol::thumbsup:. I drove small cars many places where roads were just wishfull thinking in my younger days.

Barry

[Barrykgerdes]

nothing like a bit of controversy to add postings to a thread when you only have 18 more to get to 2000

Barry

[strongmanmike]

This is a good article by Michael Pascoe that puts all the general winging nicely in perspective for all you cranky old men and women.

http://www.smh.com.au/money/borrowing/the-rising-cost-of-living-large-20111028-1mn00.html

So easy to cherry pick and complain about certain things but when the overall picture is analysed there are some glaring inconsistencies and plenty of ways an individual can off set any increases, just have to have the will, as Michael puts it "Our perception of reality is highly selective"

Mike

[Barrykgerdes]

Good one Mike.

I live very comfortably on my pension because I did not see anything in that story that I actually use money on. I run a good budget that has a great surplus every year. (except maybe telescope gear for Trevor to use)

I am doing some O/S travel this year and being a snob I won't be flying elcheapo ecconomy. My budget surplus will cover business class (even 1st if I decide to be an even bigger snob)

Staying in a $3000/ week serviced appartment in Chelsea (gratis ,The owner owes me a favour)

Barry

17 to go

[Deeno]

I'll let my neighbor know, across the road how well off and smug you guys are.

Getting a bit elderly now, she lost her husband a decade or more ago. Owning her own house and with a bit of a nest egg, she thought she would live out the rest of her days comfortably.

Well, the car went with the big jump (Charade) in fuel prices a couple of years ago and now relies on the dismal public transport system and the occasional lift.

I know with the last round of electricity price increases she is now turning off her hot water and is not using her oven. And we can expect more price rises in the near future.

She never complains and would never take a handout but, we keep an eye on her as her place is almost always dark. Hopefully she can afford to keep the place warm next winter.

If only we would look after our own......

[Hagar]

And you had the cheek to winge about Andrew Bolt. The first 3 paragraphs might meet our lifestyle but certainly don't equate much to mine.
Everything I have I have had to work for, no Government help what so ever,no pensions, no payments, no nothing but allas living in a reasonably remote area where everything cost more (Freight they tell us) we have to factor in more each and every time there is a fuel hike. I have put 2 girls through University without an handouts what so ever, both had to live away from home but no subsidy was available for that. Most city kids can at least live at home while attending University, Not so in the country.

What do you heat our house with Mike? I would assume Natural gas. What is your bill fror gas, about $200/2 months. If I use gas to heat my house it's at least 2 bottles a week at $120/bottle. If I use Electricity it's still about twice the price of gas.
Running your car, Fuel, again I assume has risen and fallen in your area but rarely sits above $1.50/ litre. For the last 12 months petrol/diesel prices have not been below $1.50 per litre.

General Groceries. We pay a premium to have tem available in our small town of 2500 people.

I live here because this is where I have employment not for the lifestyle. I would move tomorrw if I had other sutable employment and could afford it.

Micheal Pascoe is just another tosser writting articles to feed to the employer he has at the moment. Any real or implied truth is just mearly your thoughts as well. If his comments were directed at a political party you would view them somewhat differently, I'm sure.
My wage for the last 10 years has actually lost ground against the cost of living without factoring in the extra I pay to live and work in a semi remote area.

Mike it seems so easy to dredge up articles which sell your case but maybe to live them would put yourself and the likes of Pascoe back into some reality istead of the safe little dome you live in.


I'm done, getting angry, Time to quit.

[Hagar]

Deeno I couldn't agree more. I have a 94yo mother who lives next door who has come to the same realities. Thank God there are a few of us who can look after them, our governments seem hell bent looking after illegal imagrants and forget about our own elderly.
Well done Deeno.


Now I have finished.

[Barrykgerdes]

Funny thing. The people who complain loudest about the petrol price (and diesel) are the ones who "just can't do without their big gas guzzlers".

For 30 years I used big cars and paid a lot to run them. Then I got a small car and found I could still do the same things at half the cost. The amount of money I spent on big cars would have bought me a house in the same time it took to pay of the HP on the car. My first car cost 1000 pounds and the HP took 80% of my weekly pay.

As I said before the price of petrol is cosiderably less relatively, goes further and better quality (does anyone remember pool petrol that we had during the war) now than what it was when I first became addicted to a car.

Barry

16 to go

[peter_4059]

everything you ever wanted to know about petrol and diesel prices in Australia :

http://www.aip.com.au/index.htm

and the World:
http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/internationalprices.htm

[strongmanmike]

:lol: bet your not :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Barry,

you seem to complain a lot about the size of peoples vehicles and how they waste fuel.
How much fuel will be used up to fly you around the world? and to your 'Flower Show'?


If you want to drive a small car and use Public Transport, go for it. That's your choice. But get of everyone else's back just so you can get your post count up, and aggrevate others in the process to achieve those extra posts.
It's called Trolling and is against the TOS.

1. Trolling
The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) you truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help, or c) argue your side just to get a reaction and cause an inflamed reaction


In our town we have NO public transport. NONE!

[Irish stargazer]

Hence all the bicycles ;);

[Barrykgerdes]

Sorry Ken if I offended you but I don't see the connection about me taking and elderly lady flower lover to England has anything to do with the price of petrol in Victoria. I am using public transport.


Well for someone who has made 14000 posts in 7 years to my 2000 in five years seems an unusual comment.
As for public transport. Depends on viability for the area. Just because I decided that I could do in a small car what others need a large car for doesn't mean I am against large cars. I am just being rational.

As for no publc transport I can't comment without knowing where you live but surely you have a Taxi service and a method of going to the city.

Barry

[Poita]

If you really want to help her out, make a Centrelink booking for her, and get the ACAT team out to help her manage her finances and day to day living.
If she owns her own home, and has no debt, she should be able to live reasonably well in that area, and afford to run a car for local driving.
If she can't, then she isn't getting all the services she is entitled to.

I see many elderly people each week (I work part time in aged care) and many of them live with the lights off and don't run their heaters etc. because of an incorrect perception of the costs of doing so, (or because they have not sorted out their paperwork and are not getting the payments they are entitled to) when in actual fact they have enough to live fairly comfortably, and there are many services available to help them out in their homes.

There is no need for her to be living in the way you describe, the only people I see that own their own home that can't afford heating often have a gambling problem or another drain on their finances that can be addressed.

[Poita]

There are many people who have a reasonable reason for owning a 4WD car, but the roads are literally clogged with them in the city. They aren't all boat/caravan/property owners.

I find the same thing, if you don't have a regular need (i.e. towing or access etc.) then it is way cheaper to own a smaller car, and hire a big one or pay a company when you need to move big stuff around.

There are plenty of people who should own a big car, but there are also so many that have no need and complain about the cost of doing so.

I live in a town where I can walk *anywhere* within 14 minutes, yet nearly every townie still drives to work every day, as a society generally we seem to have forgotten what our legs are for.

[Poita]

People often forget that the government does subsidise a lot of things.
University for example, even if you pay full fees up front, the courses are still heavily subsidised by the government.
If they have ever had any medication, the PBS scheme has kept most of it at reasonable levels, and if you spend too much on medical in a year, the safety net kicks in. The roads (such as they are) you drive on, so much of the infrastructure, it is all 'Government Help'. We don't notice so much of it, as we take it for granted, spending some time in East Timor really made me realise how much we *do* have.

I live in the sticks as well, it does cost more on some levels, but I don't pay road tolls to get to work, it doesn't take me 45 minutes to find a park, I get relatively clear night skies and the air doesn't sting my eyes and make me phlegm up like it does every time I visit the city.
I don't have to sit in traffic and spend 45 minutes to get 15km to work. The nights are quiet and there are no planes screaming over my house like there was when I lived in Sydney.

Some things could be better, I still get cranky about how things are vs how they could be, but there is a price to pay wherever you live. In the city lots of things are cheaper, but the total cost of living per year is very high. In the US things are cheaper, but minimum wage is low, and an eye infection can cost you $300 to get fixed when it costs $15 here.

I still right letters to my local Pollies, I want many things improved, but I also have experienced how it can be where governments *really* don't help, and I know we are pretty bloody lucky here.

[Barrykgerdes]

Well said Peter

Most people complaining about the rising prices that they have to factor into the cost of living don't look rationally at their on going expenses. I have no bother with the rising prices as a pensioner. The increase in my pension has actually more than kept pace with the essentials of living.

The price of petrol won't do more than annoy me till its relative price passes $2.50/ltr. I planned my retirment at 30 and now nearing 80 would consider myself extremely well off from rational management of expenses. I budget all expenses for three years ahead factoring in the CPI adjustments and it is surprising how much you can save by doing without unecessary items.

Yes I gave up some expensive loves and replaced them with simpler things and am better off for it.

Barry

PS while I live in the city all my relatives live in the country. My Mother whose only income was the OAP lived in a retirement home in Narrabri, recently died (at 98) and had $70000 in the bank. Split 5 ways it still comes in usefull.

[TrevorW]

Government taxes comprise a fixed excise rate of 38.143 cents per litre on petrol and diesel plus GST of 10 per cent on the final retail price.
⇒ In 2010–11, the tax component (GST and fuel excise) of the retail price of petrol averaged about 38 per cent or 50 cents per litre. Payments to the Australian Government in 2010 (from fuel excise, GST on fuels and income tax) by AIP member companies was over $19 billion.

Gee how different would it be if they only applied GST

[strongmanmike]

Have to say your various replies Peter are a breath of fresh air.

No one will be 100% happy 100% of the time and it so easy to get into a woe is me frame of mind and complain and blame governments (Local, State or Federal, Labor or Coalition).

In general the front line media likes to promote doom and gloom because that sells very well.

As I pointed out initially in this thread and regardless of your specific feelings of woe (and they may be quite legitimate feels of woe), when compared to the entire rest of the world, Australian governments (of both clours) coupled with how we are structured, have in general clearly been doing very well by its citizens across the board and for a while now.

We should pause, even just for a moment, to take this in. While it may not be perfect for everyone here, there are many others, doing it much tougher out there in the rest of the world.

Really not sure why this positive sentiment seems to cause such vitiolic attacks from some people?

Mike

[Barrykgerdes]

Yes Mike a few are showing some rational thinking.

Try this scenario

Just bought a big gas guzzler to run around town because the price looked too good to be true "to keep up with the Jones" The price of gas increases to a level you can't afford. You owe 85% of the car price and it is only worth 50% of the cost price because everyone else wants to down size. You can't downsize. You are going broke. Of course you would be unhappy with the price of gas increasing so alarmingly. I reckon there are a lot of punters in this predicament.

Barry

[TrevorW]

Lets not forget that a lot of these 4WD vehicles are diesel which are more economical to run than petrol

Although I must agree is you don't need a large 4wd vehicle for access or towing then it's probably false economy.

Having a 4WD so Mary can run the 4 kids to private school in Vaucluse is not a wise move if you are thinking it's safer.

What is a waste of resources is the number of vehicles that only have one occupant and are driven to and from work without being used during the day.

[marki]

What I find funny here is the assumption that all 4wd vehicals are gas guzzlers. I own a 2011 Mitsubishi outlander which although not your hardcore off roader aquits itself well in most conditions. It has lots of space and sits high enough not to be bothered by larger vehicals blocking the line of sight to on coming traffic and has enough airbags to have kept the titanic afloat and sits very well on the road. Now I chose the little 2.4L petrol with the 5 speed manual as I wanted some economy and I hate automatics which is the only chose with the V6. The car whilst being no F1 certainly has enough punch to get out of trouble and is fun to drive (the 4WD helps lots here as it has far better traction thus is SAFER). The best bit however is that it returns a little over 9L/100km on the city cycle and 7.2L/100km on the country cycle. In a recent comparison with my folks doing some country driving, their 2.4L 2010 Honda Accord Euro auto could not get better then 9.3L/100km on the open road and they are not leadfoots (72 and 73 years young). The accord is much smaller and lower to the ground then the outlander but the winner is in the weight. The outlander is all ali from the windows up and this reduces the weight of the larger vehical significantly. This coupled with a motor that is tuned for real everyday driving (e.g. mid range torque~ 2000 - 4500 RPM range) vs the Honda with a semi race engine (8000RPM redline) makes all the difference. In short you can have a largish car which delivers reasonable economy, it just needs to be sensible in its design.


Mark

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mike



Not sure i totally agree here.
Comparing ourselves to other countries is a furphy here.
I do think that in general, our "average" quality of life
has improved over time
but the "relative" improvement appears to be split badly.
We have also lost a huge amount of "amenity" in the process.
Some people really are going backwards relative to the median
and others are rocketing ahead.
If its not addressed, then those at the top of the pyramid
will have no one at the bottom to fleece anymore
and the economic model will fall apart.
Bernoulli understood it, but we dont seem to be able to grasp it.

Andrew