Run foul with Custom

[I.C.D]

G'Day All,
Well I have been a noughty boy.I brought a green light laser from the states (U.S)only to have it seized by custom ,they are telling me that it is a prohibited item and I didn't have permission to importer the goods, so they have seized the item.
If I wish to make a claim on the item I am to fill out a "mile" of paper work sent it to them within thirty days then they are required to start legal proceeding. In hind sight it may be cheaper to let it ride lose my money and next time check the Custom web site before buying, a lesson leant the hard way

Ian C :confused2::(

[cfranks]

I know how you feel, Ian. I did the same a year or so ago. I documented the process I (successfully) went through and have attached it here just in case you might wish to continue with Customs. The Customs people have always (in my experience) been very helpful and this episode was no exception. My advice in hindsite is buy locally, it saves a ton of work but you have already paid for it so give it a try.

Charles

[multiweb]

...........

[Nico13]

The official wasn't the only one roaring with laughter,:eyepop: the wife Carol and I also. :rofl: :rofl:

Ken.

[I.C.D]

Charles,
Thanks for the heads up with the Police paper work ,I got in touch with N.S.W Police today only to be told that Custom have shut that back door and you have to deal with them direct ,so I will bit the bullet loses my money and my item and buy local from now on thank for your help :thanx::thanx::thanx:
Ian ,c

[mswhin63]

Hi Ian,

What power rating is the laser?

[stevous67]

Malcolm's question above is a valid one, as green lasers above 1mw are prohibited weapons, but those below are not! I use 1mw riffle green laser sights. Designed for fixed mounting. They are truly brilliant with vertical and horizontal adjustments, and with this power level, I can see the beam clearly enough off axis.

These cost between $35 to $45 delivered from China. Here is the one:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UK-Tactical-Green-Dot-Laser-Sight-Outside-Adjusted-Pistol-Rifle-Scope-Free-Mount-/140694093539?pt=UK_SportingGoods_Hu nting_ShootingSports_ET&hash=item20c2057ee3#ht_3589wt_1192

Now these pass customs, well I've had three ordered, and all units have been delivered.

Now I attach them to my mount hub pro for remote control on/off. That's so nice an option for initial alignments.

Steve

[stevous67]

Btw, these units like to be kept warm to ensure a bright beam.

Steve

[g__day]

Hmmm, maybe just buy a 1 Mw one and see if the lads at customs are paying attention!

How long before the folk in Asia wise up and start labelling
Death Ray < 1 T Watt

I wonder what customs would do if a device was labelled as under some fantastic energy threshold rather than over some peasly setting? Would you rather have a green death stick labelled under 1mW or under 1,000 Zotta Watts - both would be true, assuredly the second!

[Satchmo]

You can get 20mw green laser pointers in Australia from Astro shops- just be prepared to pay through the nose ... I have the Saxon one designed for telescopes with a remote switch - I love it.

[BlackWidow]

Well it is pretty easy to get around and you can have a Green laser as large as you like.. I have done this several times and own a 100mw, 80mw 2x60mw and a 30mw... If they ever change the laws again I have all I need... Now on to the how too part:

Firstly if you purchase a green laser module it is considered a part and gets through customs no worries. Do a search on the Bay for 60mw Green Laser or whatever size you want.. they cost around $25 upwards dependent on size... You must purchase the ones with a spring at the end and a button on the board. The button on the bord lines up with the button in the tube for on and off. Dont worry if it has a red and black wire as these you will just cut off. Here is an example; Item number: 260816809620 Thants part one done....

Part two requires you to purchase a Red 1mw laser pen that is the correct size to fit the Green Laser module into. The purchase of a 1mw Red laser is also perfectly legal... Here is an item number of the correct size Item number: 300606512613 They are the black cases that have small dimples in the grip.


When you get the both items as you will.. You just pull the end off the tube at the laser end with some pliers and then tap out the red laser with a punch or a bit of down.. Then press the green laser insert into the tube in it's place lining up the button and hey presto you have a green laser for around $30 - $50.. And a powerfull one at that... Work well for me and one of my friends...:thumbsup:

Rules are just thier so you can find constructive Legal ways around them... The funny thing is that I have never had a green laser module seized but I did get on of the 1mw lasers taken of me as it was not marked 1mw so they took it to be sure... Work that one out LOL


I hope I have been some assistance as I find this new set of laws a big problem for the Astonomical Community. A few fools that mess things up for others... Hmmmm

Regards
Mardy

[Waxing_Gibbous]

When I applied for a permit to purchase one, the local plod had NO idea what I was talking about.
They thought I wanted a laser PRINTER!
Eventually the Sergeant just signed the form and told me to drop it off when the thing arrived! :D

[Merlin66]

I'm in the process of getting the Vic police documentation to bring is some red/ green lasers I've been using overseas for spectroscope testing.
I hope to return to Australia early next year and getting the paperwork done "remotely" from Belgium is very difficult!!
Hopefully by the end off the year I'll fix it up.

[stevous67]

I suspose it is not so much the question on how to get a larger/prohibited laser into the country, it is more the fact that when you are out in the field and youre using your gigwatt green laser, how you are going to deal with a police officer who confronts you when you are caught using it.:eyepop:

A 1mw green laser is not prohibited in accordance to the prohibited weapons list (for Victoria). You do not need a license for one either. When in the field and you are approached about the use of your laser, you can know its use is not illegal. To confirm this, Logitech now sells its presentation devices with 1mw [or less] green lasers.

Of coarse, make sure your laser is 1mw or less before mounting it to your scope and then using it in public! :thumbsup:

[g__day]

So is there a tester. If the plate says under 1mW how many folk here (or police) have the gear to confirm that on them?

[jenchris]

move to queensland

[BlackWidow]

You have to remember that the laws are different in most states of Australia. Your comment may be correct for your location, but this forum is for all of Australia and the world in fact.. In my state we can operate higher than a 1mw laser as long as you are a member of the ASSA or the Mars Society. I carry my membership details as well as the brocure on the legislation just in case the police dude is unaware. My advice on getting larger lasers through customs still requires you to be aware of your local laws. In my case we can have them, but it's difficult to purchase them without being charge a fortune from Astro Shops.. Lets face it if you could not use them, why would Astro Shops even sell them..

Regads
Mardy

[g__day]

So if someone mounts 100 * 1 mWatt lasers to the outside of their OTA - this is legal so long as (to quote Ghostbusters) the beams don't combine?

If 100 * 1 mW lasers seem to coalesce at a point near infinity - has the law been broken or not? Does the local law specific a height boundary on the 1 mW limit - like 5 km, 10 kms etc? How high above a sovereign country like Australia does local and federal law apply? I presume like international waters - there is a legal limit, beyond which state and federal laws don't apply? Is it the Karman line ~ 100 kms or less? Wiki seems to say its most clearly tied to controlled air space, which varies from 22 to 160 kms with no agreed international limit.

I wonder how thoroughly the law has been tested? If I live just within a state with a 5mW limit and shine a 5mW laser over the boarder at a state with a 1mWatt limit has the law be broken or not - or does it depend on the height of the beam above the boarder?

Seems like a situation that could lead to farce if the definitions don't keep up with technology. With today's fabrication capabilities it would be easy to develop a laser like metal storm, 1,000,000 aligned units in a 1,000 * 1,000 grid - all aligned. How far must each unit be seperated before the beam is considered as one individual beam versus its 1,000,000 component parts? So in that absurd case is the person shining 1,000,000 * 1 mW lasers or a single kiloWatt laser? What standard defines the cut off point between an illegal single beam ersus a legal group beam?

[stevous67]

Hello Mardy,

Thanks for pointing out the detail! Yes, my comment was for Victoria - Sorry about that.

Steve

Edited my previous post

[I.C.D]

Thanks for all your support people ,I am still in with a chance .
I have fill out all the paper work and now it is the hands of the gods (Australian Custom) I will keep you inform how things are going.
Again thanks

[rally]

Under South Australian Law
1.7.2011—Summary Offences (Dangerous Articles and Prohibited Weapons) Regulations 2000

This is the clause that classifies a laser pointer as a Prohibited Weapon

Schedule 2
10A—Laser pointer
A hand-held device commonly known as a laser pointer designed or adapted to emit a
laser beam with an accessible emission level of greater than 1 milliwatt.


This is the main exemption under South Australian law for using a laser over 1mW for astronomical use one there.

Schedule 3—Exemptions
17—Laser pointers for astronomical use
(1) A person who has possession of, or uses, a laser pointer for the purpose or in the
course of participating in astronomy is exempt from the offences of possession and
use of a laser pointer under section 15(1c)(b) of the Act if the person—
(a) is a member of—
(i) the Astronomical Society of South Australia Incorporated; or
(ii) the Mars Society Australia Incorporated; or
(b) participates in astronomy under the supervision of a member of a body
referred to in paragraph (a); or
(c) participates in astronomy at an observatory; or
(d) participates in astronomy as part of a course of study conducted by an
educational institution.
(2) In this clause—
laser pointer means a device declared to be a prohibited weapon by clause 10A of
Schedule 2.

So if you have an observatory you are allowed to use one.

[mithrandir]

Where is the definition of an observatory? Does it have to be a building from which "observing" is performed? Does your often used location on a bit of grass/gravel/concrete in the back yard count?

[rally]

"Observatory" is not further defined in the regulations.
I suspect its not further defined elsewhere in the full Act, but I haven't searched it to be sure.

But I suspect that the general meaning of a structure designed to house a telescope system would apply.
So a piece of concrete would be highly doubtful, but a roll off roof or dome certainly must.

They don't specify commercial or professional observatory, so any person could argue successfully that their observatory is an observatory under the act.
If its been approved by the local council as an observatory then I think it would be hard to argue otherwise.

The intention of the act seems to be to ensure that since astronomy is accepted as a genuine exempted use, that the person claiming the exemption is in fact engaged in astronomy. But I'll leave this interpretation to the relevant court to rule on !

I wonder if an astronomy tent qualifies !?
I wonder that if a person was legitimately and sensibly using a laser pointer and they were with a group of people all with telescopes on dedicated piers on a concrete pad, that a sensible judge might use his discretion to deem that site to be an observatory for the purposes of the Act. But I would not want to presuppose what any judge might find !

Remember this Act only applies to SA.

[mswhin63]

Just looking for holes in the legislation or acts, the courts would decide then if you are right or wrong. To test the legislation would cost you a pretty penny and highly likely yo would not get the money back either.

Maybe we need to wait for someone to go through the courts first before saying yah or nay or just join a club.

[MrB]

It is my understanding that customs/police are only interested in laser POINTERS as it is these lasers that those mentally challenged individuals like to use to blind airline pilots and cause problems on freeways etc.
The component parts are perfectly legal to import.

I have purchased many powerful lasers over the years and never once had a drama, including lots of 600mW, 650nm red diodes, 405nm Violet diodes, a 2W (yes two Watts... or 2000mW) 445nm Blue diode and never had an issue with any of them.
I have also imported a 473nm Blue DPSS laser, this beauty contains a ~6 Watt 808nm infrared diode that can very easily burn holes through all sorts of items(and send you blind instantly) Amazing beautiful colour on the output though.
All these beams have ofcourse never seen open space, they are operated in a controlled environment.
One day I will get around to combining all these into a white laser for RGB laser shows and holography.

[I.C.D]

G'Day All,
Well yesterday I received a phone call from Custom Weapon &Firearms branch in Canberra informing me that my laser tested at 50mW, not what was marked on the package invoice (1mW).If wish to continue with my claim I would have to go through the courts and if I lost the case I was up for a $400 fine plus their court cost.
So I have forfeit my claim and the said laser will be destroyed .
Lesson learnt if you have any doubt what you are buying overseas Check the custom web sit first it my be cheaper in the long time

Ian C
:( :thanx: All

[mswhin63]

Wow, they are getting tough now, removing it from the package

[erick]

I gather the description of goods was falsely stated? I suspect a 1mW rated laser would not deliver 50mW.