PHD Guiding with Flashed SPC900NC Webcam

[Robert_Tee]

Hey there!

Has anyone had any success with Auto guiding with Philips SPC900NC in PHD?

I am using a SPC880 Flashed to 900NC and modified to night exposures only.

Last night I booted up PHD chose the Webcam but could not get a picture to come up on the screen. Even when I placed a light in front of the cam I got no picture. The light on the cam was on to indicate power. I thought it might have been the cam so I loaded up Sharpcap and it worked no problem so it’s not the camera that the problem... it’s me and my lack of knowledge of the program.:shrug:

Can anyone help?:help:

Many thanks

Robert

[mswhin63]

The only thing i can think of is whether it was selected correctly. I had this issue or similar at the beginning but found my sequence of operation wasn't correct and the video did not come through.

[Robert_Tee]

Hey Malcolm,

Maybe. I will be out again tonight and will try again. What sequence is required?

Cheers

Robert

[BlackWidow]

Hi Robert.. I will do y best to help you. firstly I need to know how you are connecting you Long exposure cable to your computer? On mine I have the SPC900nc connected to usb as normal. I then have a Parallel cable from the camera and I have a special convertor to convert the Parallel plug to a USB. This is the part that often gets people in trouble as they often try to use Parallel to USB convertors from the net and the simply don't work.. I can assist you with convertors should you need one, but more on that if needed.

Once it is all connected to the computer I start PHD and click on the little camera icon on the bottom left of the program. A window will open where you can select the type of camera you are using. I select Long Exposure Webcam Parallel/serial. It will come up with another window, but just click on and OK that window.

At this point look at the the bottom middle of the PHD program and you will see a menu (Drop Down) alongside of a slide bar. You will need to set the value to around 1sec or even 1.5 in the drop down menu.

You will now need to click on the icon on the bottom of the program that looks like an bent blue arrow (second icon along). this button will now set the camera taking shots for a 1 or 1.5 second period dependent on what you choose. I would suggest starting with the camera out of the telescop and you should get a white over exposed image if have the lense taken off the 900nc. That will test that you are getting an image and talking to the camera.

Once you are all up and working you can place the camera in your telescope and get on a bright star to start with and get good focus. Once you have done that you are ready to guide. Use a dull star, not a bright one and play around with the exposure length to get the best results for you. 1.5 is about what I use.

You can use PHD without the long exposure set on your Webcam, but the results won't be as good and you may have trouble finding a star that you can see in PHD. If you choose not to use Long Exposure you can select Windows WDM style webcam and set it to 320x240,,, You will see what I mean when you select it..

Just remember you always need to select you camera type each time you run PHD and you always need to set it looping with the blue arror before you will see any image on the screen.

Oh and when you are ready to guide your scope you will need to select you telescope mount with the telescope icon in the same way. and then you click the Guide button to start the guiding..

So camera type, telescope, then loop time and start looping, then press guide..


If you have any other questions please ask.. I am sure others may offer some assistance or ever add to my post.. Sorry about any spelling errors, did this in a hurry..


Regards
Martin

[Robert_Tee]

Hi Martin,

Thanks very much for your advice. I am connecting the Camera directly to the USB connection on my laptop. But i did not do things in the order you have given here.

Question.. why is a Parallel cable required?

Cheers

Robert

[BlackWidow]

Robert the Parallel cable is added to Long Exposure modded SPC900NC's Webcams. Without the mod the camera works only as a Webcam. IE it takes video rather than single shots like a Digital SLR Camera.

If you only have a single USB cable comming out of your Camera then it is not a long exposure camera but is still great for imaging planets and also for Guiding.

A Modded SPC900nc can do all of that with the addition of being able to take single shots. These shots can be held open for long periods of time like on a Digital SLR Camera that allows more light to buid up so you can take shots of things like Nebula and deep space objects. It's the same as taking night shots with a DSLR camera,. You need to open the appeture for longer..

How does this effect PHD you might ask? Well if you are able to use the long exposure feature of your camera (if it has the extra lead and been modded) you will be able to see more stars. As the camera can let more light in or stare for longer, you will get more light into your camera and hence see more stars. This is an advantage when guiding in area's that have limited stars in the area.

don't worry if you camera is not modded as you can still use it to Guide, but modded Long Exposure is a little better, but does cost more to purchase or to have modded. They can be found on E-bay and it's a local guy that does them ;)


Regards
Martin

[mswhin63]

I remember now based on the information above from Martin, The control on the bottom call loop or something similar needs to be press to initiate the camera on screen and the calibration as well. This is where I got mixed up.

I only use a regular webcam without long exposure so I can't deal with the long exposure feature of the Philips. I have an earlier Toucam I will mod one day and may use for guiding but my other webcam is functioning quite well ATM.

[Robert_Tee]

Ok now i understand. Mine was purchased as a Standard Webcam and with the software available i was able to flash the chip to make it more sensitive to night it is very much impossible to use in the light.

Is that what you mean by modded?

Robert

[mswhin63]

The Long Exposure mod is different to the re-flash. So far I have found the basic webcam to work for me although it is a low light one anyway. The Philips can be modded more to allow exposures in the many seconds or more.

For the moment just use the standard webcam selection method in the camera selection dialog of PHD

[BlackWidow]

No Robert it seems your camera is not Long Exposure Modded.. You have had a firmware update from an SPC880 to an SPC900nc. You will need to select the Windows standard webcam from the Camera selection menu and you will be up and running.


Regards
Martin

[Screwdriverone]

Hey Robert,

I use my SPC 900NC (mine has the LONG Exposure Modification with a normal/Long switch allowing me to use it for long exposures), however I dont use it for LE as it is too noisy....

I have found, just like you that when using my philips with PHD, sometimes it fails to activate the camera. I also have K3CCD tools on my PC and IT cant find the picture when PHD is having a tanty as well.

What I do to "wake up" the camera is to close PHD, and then go to the START>PROGRAMS>ACCESSORIES>SCANNER AND CAMERA WIZARD (I have XP.....

That wakes up the camera and then I take a photo with it using the wizard, close it, go back to PHD. Click on the camera button on the bottom left, select windows webcam (NOT LE modded) and then se the colour model to YUY2 640x480.

THEN, what you need to do is set the timer which is probably set to 1.0s to something like 0.1s and then click on the cam dialog button on the right.....set the camera to FULL AUTO and then close that screen, go back to PHD main screen and press the circular green arrow that says, "start looping exposures....." and viola...you should see the webcam on the PHD screen.

It will be bright as the camera is in auto exposure mode, but you should be able to make out stars (it WILL show in B&W) and then all you need to do is start the connection to the telescope via the ASCOM EQ5/6 driver, (assuming you already have the EQASCOM program installed and the PC connected to the handcontroller, via the serial cable to RJ11 into the bottom of the hand controller, with the controller in the utility/PC direct mode)

Once the ascom is connected and running, make sure you click on the sidereal rate button at the bottom of that red and yellow screen (symbol of a star) and then the mount will be talking to PHD and ready to guide.....

If you can see a star, click on it, this will put a green box around it.....keep watching it and if the star fades out every now and then, simply change the timer to say 0.5s or 1.0s, this will mean PHD is stacking webcam frames and creating a better Signal to noise ratio for you just like a Long Exposure Webcam....one reason why you DONT need to run it in LE mode.

Once you click guide (or whatever the button is to the right of the round green arrow - I am doing this from memory), PHD will do a calibration of the mount in W then E, and N then S, and if all is good, will CROSS HAIR your star box (takes about 2 mins) and then PHD is GUIDING!!!! woohoo....

From memory....I might have adjusted my EQASCOM settings to slightly (say 0.4) higher aggressiveness in RA and DEC....something you do by pressing the button with the 3 arrows on it >>> at the top of EQASCOM. This will show the expanded page with other bits and pieces.....

WHEW...this was originally supposed to be a quick instruction on how to get the webcam going....sorry, I seem to have done a brain dump on you.....

If this is confusing, let me know, I can rewrite or help further when I am at home, (at work now ;)) or even PM me with your phone number and I can call you to help you out...

Hope this helps...

Cheers

Chris

[Robert_Tee]

Thanks everyone. it works (well i can get a video feed through PHD)

Another question Martin mentioed using 320 x 240 setting. can i use the 640 x 480? and what is the Difference with (YUY2) (IYUV)(I420). Are these Important?

Robert

[Robert_Tee]

Please ignore my last post.

Hi Chris you just posted the answer to my question as I was leaving my last post. Thanks that helps heaps.

If i get stuck I might just PM you my number :)

Cheers

Robert

[Screwdriverone]

not really,

I simply use YUY2 and 640 x 480, works for me every time....shouldnt have any effect on guiding, however, some of the weird colour models or options may not give you a picture.

Make it BIG, I say...!

My offer still stands, if you want or need any help getting the mount to talk via EQASCOM or PHD, let me know via PM and I can ring you and/or provide remote assistance on your PC to show you what I mean...if you need it.

Cheers

Chris

[Exfso]

Robert, I used to have an advert here for long exposure webcams. I modify them for long exposure, also do them for Matthew Lovell (Telescopes and Astronomy) PM me if you want more information.

[Nico13]

Thanks for all this info guys.

I've just been going through all this myself for my new NEQ6 with Toucam guider.
Wasn't sure about best settings for the cam with PHD as it's not a LE moded one.
Had setup the other night with a temporary guide scope until I get the one I'm making up and running, had difficulty with faint stars as mentioned but when used on something like M42 it seemed to work reasonably well so my first attempt at real guiding was under way.

Here are a couple of shots I took while testing, unfortunately not quite focused the best but for a single frame image I thought it wasn't too bad.

Pentax K5
IMG 1 = 30 sec ISO 800 with in camera dark frame.
IMG 2 = 2 min ISO 800 with in camera dark frame.

So it works, better to come when setup fully.

Nico.

[Screwdriverone]

Good STUFF Ken!

Glad that this thread helped you on the way with guiding.

Those test shots show stars with a good profile, fine tuning the settings in Ascom will help. Helps to run PEC also, let it train and then leave it on, this means PHD doesnt need to do as much.

Keep it up, we should start a PHD / Toucam guiding club. :)

Cheers

Chris

[mswhin63]

I like the scope used for guiding, they can be easily picked up cheaply.

[Nico13]

Thanks Chris,
Yeh a bit more work to go in fine tuning etc but things are moving along ok. The OTA I'm using is about twenty five years old, in very good condition mind you but a nice new one with coma correction would be nice. ;)



Malcolm,
That old scope I've had since my target shooting days for checking target hits, it comes in handy every now and then. I'll have my new guide scope ready to go soon though, a bit more compact.

You seem to be one step ahead of me and asking the questions I need answers to :lol: so I'll just follow you around and all the info just pops up :thumbsup:

Nico.

[Screwdriverone]

My new Orion 50mm Mini Guidescope/finderscope is a corker for only $119, its fantastic compared to my dodgy finderscope conversion I did with the toucam....

Parfocal ring means I can set the focus and screw on the ring to the toucam nosepiece, remove it, use the camera in the main scope for Jupiter etc, then plonk it back into the guidescope and its focused!

Best guidescope....and it only weighs less than 500g....

I will post a photo later to show how I have it set up.

Cheers

Chris

[mswhin63]

agreed Chris, although for some people like myself every cents is important and as I could change a lot of my stuff with existing things lying around at home then sometime that can be important. Once I get enough money I will more than likely purchase a unit but am quite happy which my $5.00 modification to a finder-scope and webcam that I already had that I hope will last a while. Not to mention to feeling of achievement to create something.

2 nights ago it gave me an unexpected result using EQalign to provide an extremely accurate polar alignment. I was not able to take photos due to the weather but it has definitely served it's purpose.

I just found an old PCVC 840 and hope to flash to SNC900 and modify it to see how well this could be.

[Nico13]

Hey Chris how is the Orion Mini for picking up stars in feint area's of sky as a comparison with the Toucam?
I'd be interested to here your comments.

Nico.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Malcolm,

Yes, I know how satisfying it can be when you "Macgyver" a solution with bits and bobs.....having said that, the relief of not having to worry about the guidescope anymore and by having WAAAAY better images and star detection through the mini guidescope is so much better, it allows me to focus on other things (pun intended) so I can set the cam, guidescope and PHD, forget it, then move onto the important stuff of imaging....

You've inspired me to give EQalign a go, now I have my scope marks on the concrete set up by the pool, I am going to test out my alignment and fine tune hopefully next clear night and see how I go....

Cheers

Chris

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Ken,

I can only compare it to when I had the toucam through the Skywatcher finderscope as I bodgied it up to the end of that after removing the cross hair eyepiece end and then played around with the focus....

Conservatively and considering the stars are SHARPLY in focus now....I would say its twice as good as before, with the Orion mini guide scope, and it can EASILY pick up say mag 8 stars depending on the exposure length and if you take a dark frame through PHD also...

I love it. Best $119 I have spent on the scope so far.

Cheers

Chris

[mswhin63]

I tried EQAlign only once so maybe I fluked something. I am concerned that EQAlign has stopped development. The website is not very active although it says new version being developed.

My main concern is ASCOM support. It only has support for 4.1. Although it seems to work , one thing I noticed I was unable to slew easily. I overcome this by using EQMOD slewing but I am not sure if it affects it overall operation.
One thing I really like is the Initialisation of the cross-hairs, it really is impressive.

Thunderstorms here for the next couple of days so I will not be able to check it out for a while.

[Nico13]

Thanks Chris,
You see the Guider setup I'm making at the moment is an adaptor to fit the Toucam to my SLR camera lenses so I'm yet to see what the field of view is with different lenses fitted and also it may well be suited to video work.

If that all works then I would need another guide scope and as I have a second Toucam I will have that option so the mini 50 looks like it could be viable for me as I don't have a huge budget for all this.

just waiting for a 1.6mm tap to turn up so I can tap the threads for the mounting ring srews, tiny little buggers, :D. Should be here today with luck so I can play over the weekend.

Nico.