Refractor or Relector or SCT??

[Simon Holmes]

What will best suit a greenhorn like me, with no experience what so ever in astronomy.
I have been reading up as much as I could and is totally confused about the right type of scope for my first scope.
It seems, ideally, if your pocket is deep enough, you should buy the biggest aperture refractor that you could afford. Is this the right choice?:rolleyes:

[Poita]

Not just your pocket, your arms have to be long enough too :D

Honestly, get to a star party/viewing night, you will get nothing more than conflicting opinion here really, and each of us will be right!

An SCT gives you big aperture in a small package, much easier to transport, move and handle than an equivalent aperture Newtonian. Great for planets, moon and those tinier galaxies.

A refractor is easy to handle, easy to use (no collimation usually) and are great for DSO photography. They have the smallest apertures for the dollars though.

A newt/dob is cheap for the amount of aperture you get, you need to learn how to collimate them, and they are l-o-n-g, but they are great bang for buck.

But really, it comes down to what you want to look at, what sort of mount you require, how transportable you need it to be, what your expectations and viewing habits are etc. etc.
\
For one person an ED80 refractor and a mallincam will be the best setup ever
, watching full colour DSOs on a screen, for another it will be an 8" SCT on an EQ6, for someone else it will be a 16" dob, the list is endless, each has its pros and cons.
My first scope was a 8" SCT, and that was over 20 years ago, and it is still in use, and still gives great views.

Get to a gathering and have a play with the scopes and see what suits you. Get a look through them so your expectations match reality. Some people are blown away buy the view through a 12" scope, others are really disappointed that the objects are dim and B&W. It is all down to personal stuff really.

[casstony]

Hi Simon, I'd narrow down your options to an 8" or 10" dobsonian or an 8" schmidt cassegrain - people often trade up from 8" meade LX90's or celestron nexstar 8SE's so a wanted ad for either of those would save a significant amount off new.

The 8" scopes of either design are quite portable; the 10" dob is slightly less portable but still not hard to move around.

The two schmidt cassegrains find and track objects for you, though a standard dob would not be at a disadvantage in that regard if you were going to be observing with others who could help you.

[DavidTrap]

I'm selling my LX90 8inch in the classifieds...

Hopeless plug!

DT

[mishku]

+1 from a new kid, who was trying to make the same decision not that long ago (and to be fair, I still want one of EVERYTHING).

one of the most helpful things I did was to head out to a camp (Hi, SVers! :hi:) where very generous folks answered my many, repetitive, questions with great enthusiasm and patience. They made their suggestions (and everyone had a different one!) and I spent some time thinking about my situation and how I want to use my scope.

I couldn't recommend more strongly finding some folks near you (and there are plenty) who can share their experiences with you.

:welcome: to IIS!! :)

[gregbradley]

My first scope was an LX90 and it was marvellous. I wasn't doing any imaging at first and it gives great views and the computer go-to system is fantastic.

If you want to do imaging then refractors or Newts are better suited.

The trouble with refractors as a first scope is that to get a comparable view to an 8 inch SCT you'd have to spend a fortune.

Greg.

[Octane]

I really think you need to buy a Takahashi FSQ-106.

H

[mishku]

Don't panic though, H is RICH and will definitely buy one for you if you are v v nice to him. Right, H??? :question:

[TrevorW]

Sh... I'd even be nice to H if he brought one for me :P;):D

[casstony]

A 4" apochromat is great for imaging and widefields, but larger aperture dobs or sct's(schmidt cassegrains) will do better on most objects due to greater light gathering ability and greater resolution. Large aperture apochromats are not a practical option for a beginner due to price and possibly size.

[GeoffW1]

Hi Simon,

I've tried them all and I think that for visual observing with good portability, the 8" or 10" SCT has a small edge (no pun you lot) over the others.

That said, all have their very strong points as you read above, and if you get into astrophotography the choice will possibly be different.

It is also a personal choice thing. You will get fixations, wait and see :rofl:

I have had 2 dobs, and became absolutely fed up with collimating them. So I got a 4" refractor and that is great unless you want to observe faint objects. So I got a 8" SCT for more aperture, and so it goes you see.

With a bit of luck and patience, you can get your choice here on IIS second hand for a reasonable price.

Cheers

[traveller]

Hi Simon and welcome.
As the saying goes, horses for courses, each scope design has advantages and disadvantages. I second what Mish said re try before you buy, but be careful, you may want to get more than one!
Bo

[brian nordstrom]

:D Yea Simon , get to a star party or 5 and look thru as many scopes as you can and find what spins your wheels , as the guys say here everyone is different , and like 'H' , I love to a good refractor ;) as well , they bite hard .
A good APO is hard to beat ,
I love my 127mm triplet ,, perfect images . :help:but expensive .
Brian.

[g__day]

Set a rough budget, go to a star party, look through many scopes at different objects to see what sort of objects you most want to view and that will help narrow your choice of scopes.

[gregbradley]

APOs crush SCTs only when the APO is large. Otherwise you are limited to very bright objects.

Even globular clusters are quite dim in a 4 inch APO. You need around 6 inch APOs to really start getting the wow factor.

Whereas an 8 inch SCT is quite bright and shows a lot of detail. I take it that is why they have been so popular over the years. That and the go-to plus tripod and guiding at a much lower price. A 6 inch APO is roughly equivalent to an 8 inch SCT in viewing power as APOs don't have a central obstruction. My TEC180 is the equivalent roughly (a bit less) in views to a Celestron Nexstar 11 I had. The TEC is of course sharper but I personally found the views through an SCT mesmerising and the go-tos are just the best. Plus the viewing position is much more comfortable. You can get into some very uncomfortable positions with APOs as they are so long. SCTs are compact.

This is also the problem with Newts. They are very short focal length for the same sized tube as an SCT and as a result you are back to widefield views. Unless you use a barlow. Plus Newts are harder to collimate, tend to be bulky for the aperture and show coma really easily compared to an SCT.

Anyway that is my experience.

Greg.

[AG Hybrid]

Well everyone has been putting their case forward for their particular favorite type of scope very well.

So I'm going to give all of them the finger and say... get yourself a pair of decent binoculars. At least 50mm in apeture. You didn't mention if you had them already. They are a brilliant way to learn the sky.. even from the city. When you've learned some of the sky in regards to constellations and the brighter DSO's when it comes time for your first scope you wont be much of a greenhorn.

That being said...

If you really really really wanted a scope first instead.

Get an 8 inch dobsonian, and with the money you save over an expensive Schmidt-Cassigran buy yourself some decent eyepieces.
People who say eyepieces don't matter or don't enriched the experience are seriously missing out.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

An 8" newt on an Alt/Az mount.
Bang for buck, the best set-up out there.
Dobsonian bases are heavy and inconvenient to re-locate. Plus they move around alot when you don't want them to.
Unless you want to spend the extra cash on a computerised 'goto', which will both move and hold the scope, I'd avoid 'em! :scared3:

An 8" newt weighs next-to-nothing and a mount like the Bintel Voyager even less. Yet will have spent under a grand, have set-up that's easy to move and will show you a lifetime of objects.
On a mercenary note, when you want to move up (or on) you'll have 2 bits of gear that are easy to sell. :thumbsup:

[mishku]

Bo is quite right (quite the mutual admiration society!) - I want at least two, for two different purposes, and I'm still busily researching to find my goldilocks scope (juuuuuust right :) )

[Poita]

Some C8 SCTs have sold recently for under $500, so they don't have to be expensive.

[AG Hybrid]

But you can get a 2nd hand 8 inch dob for as low as $300. Mind you I havnt seen one come up for that price recently.

What if he has to colimate the SCT? If I was a beginner and had to figure that out I'd probably lose the will to live. :rofl:

[Poita]

I don't understand why people find collimating an SCT difficult, I find collimating a Newtonian far more annoying. It really is a straightforward and pretty easy job, especially for visual, and the C8 holds it really well.

As I said in the first post, everyone will have their own opinion, get out there under the stars with some owners, heft some of the scopes, get a look through them, and see what takes your fancy.
My main advice would be buy 2nd hand, you often get extras thrown in and then if you do move your scope on, you are losing very little (if any!) money when you upgrade.

[TrevorW]

Actually if I had the money I'd have one of each, especially while imaging, I've seen some nice results by combining data from different optics

[g__day]

The best scope is one you'll use and enjoy using!

To use it it has to meet your specific requirements - where you'll observe, does it have power, how much gear are you prepared to carry and set up, how sophisticated push to / goto etc are you happy to learn and a host of other factors you must decide on. A 24" SDM dob won't bring much pleasure if its too heavy for you to manage and you never use it. Any goto system will fail if you aren't happy to master it.

To enjoy it depends on your viewing site's seeing characteristics, the luminosity of the targets you prefer and the quality of all you optical gear and tracking mechanisms. So again you will control most of these aspects with your selections.

Hence the advice about star parties and budgets, there are about 30 user requirements questions you have to decide on before gear selection can be well honed.

A common usage pattern might suggest:

Cheapest bang for buck - 8" dob
Best initial imaging set up - widefield bright objects - 80mm refractor, DSLR and EQ5 mount
Simplest afforable, compact mount to set up use with computer aided goto - 8" SCT
Best value goto mount - 8" Newtonian

etc... all those views are very subjective and far over-simplify many trade offs. Astronomy is both tactile - you have to touch and use gear to see if its for you, and different folks like different things; I love seeing Jupiter and Saturn but loathe when the Moon is up - wrecks my imaging. I view the Moon, Venus and Mars maybe once or twice a year!

Horses for courses!

Matt

[Kal]

Collimating an SCT is alot easier than collimating a newt. You don't need any specialised tools, and it is only 3 screws to adjust!

[Kal]

Depends on what type of imaging you want to do. For planetary imaging I'd take an SCT over an Apo (for aperture) or a Newt (easier to mount, less strain on the mount, longer focal length)

[gregbradley]

Yes that's true.

Greg.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Bang on there Matt , my favorite and most used scope is my little 63mm Zeiss , that scope spins my wheels every time I look at the moon , or saturn , or jupiter , mars . venus , Yep I am a planatery observer , ;)
on deep sky this little refractor shows double stars like no other , even my 127 mm . Up to a point as apature rules of course . Nice optics . :D my Zeiss , remindes me and all who look thru her what excellent optics can show:eyepop:.
Brian.

[NorthernLight]

choose whatever you want but bear in mind that apperture can only be replaced by more apperture.
since newtons offer the biggest onjective diameter per dollar and a dobson style alt/az mount is basically a freeby on scopes sold with it, you could have a 16" telescope for the costs of a 8" sct on an eq mount that needs be pol aligned- otherwise the goto doesn't work.
the views of a 16" dob are by far, very far, superior to any 5" apo when it comes to the faint objects.
apo's maybe sharper, have more contrast, have no coma and may even have flat fields, granted. but in the area of visual observing by amateurs the vast majority prefers apperture and lots of it.
photography is an entirely different field.

clear skies!

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

I come out in hives if I think about collimation too much, but SCT are really not too bad if you fit Bob's Knobs. And they hold it a bit better I reckon. Being f10 probably helps.

I would have had to be an orangutan with the 12" dob to collimate the same way. That was what reduced me to tears in the end, it made me feel like a tram conductor.

Cheers

[NorthernLight]

there are other ways to collimate a newton.
i am using a laser collimator that allows convenient collimation from the rear in under a minute.

[netwolf]

As some have said before the best scope is the one you will use most.

1. If you have a pair of binos 10x50 use them to try and find some objects. See if you are ok with using manual techniques like Star hopping to find objects.
2. Attend a local Astro club viewing night and talk to the people there, and look through different scopes. Some clubs will even lend you equipment.

I like the 8" SCT's, as they are I find more portable and easier to use. And the 8" SCT is i find the sweet spot. Some say collimation is difficult, but I have not found that to be the case. Especially when using Bob's knobs. I think the new 8" Edge HD is a very nice and versatile scope. But more than the optics, spend more on your Mount. Indeed I would urge you to first think on this subject before the optics. Optics can be replaced, investing in a good mount is a long term investment.

[5ash]

I would think that with only one mirror to adjust a SCT would be the simplest of all reflecting telescopes to collimate .
Philip

[Irish stargazer]

I used a pair of 10x50 binos for 15 years before buying my first scope, an 8" sct which I still use 16 years later. It's a nice scope, easy to move around and great optics. Only had to slightly colimate it once despite shipping it to Europe and back and recently from Melbourne in a 20 foot container. I recently bought a 12" Dob and I love the simplicity of it, very easy to set up and use. Ready to observe in minutes and great views and no electronics to go wrong. For visual observing I would recommend an 8" dob. If you decide you need more aperture or want to take photos it would be easy to sell and upgrade to something else. A bargain for under $500.