GoTo & Technology

[Hans Tucker]

Ok..this thread is not intended to insult anyone but to gather opinions..so..here goes.

Are computerized “Go-To”mounts making Astronomers lazy....lazy to learn the sky?

I believe the reliance on calculators in schools has had the effect of making kids ignorant to the basic fundamentals in mathematics. Texting on mobiles has made them lazy in basic english and communication. So what about us in this hobby..has the new technology made us less appreciative of what the sky has to offer.

[barx1963]

Horses for courses! I like to get into the guts of a thing, so I enjoy manual navigation. Getting into observing that way was not a conscious choice, I couldn't afford a GoTo scope so had to learn the manual way and found I liked it.
There are many nights when all I want to do is look at the highlights in the sky and I know that I can have a look at half a dozen of them (think M42/43, Omega C, 47Tuc, NGC2070 etc) before a go to scope has been aligned properly. I know as I had a little second hand go to scope for a while and it took at least 5 mins to set up each time assuming everything worked perfectly.
But as I said, horses for courses, to each their own.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

I'm sort of "spacially challanged". I barely scraped through my celestial navigation course in the navy. Apart from constellations like Orion, Scorpio and Taurus, that have quite obvious outlines, they just looked like a bunch of stars to me.
Go-To saved me from stamp collecting as I could now pick an object and finally see it's place in it's constellation and relative to others.
I'm still quite rubbish but a whole lot less so.
Viva Go-To!

[Barrykgerdes]

I like the technicalities of "Goto". You still need to learn where objects are so it suits me but the best way to really learn is manually searching by the most common star hopping method.

It is the same with the second part of your post. The bright students understand the basics and can make great use of these tools but the rest only learn how to ask for a solution from their tools. These people will end up being mostly unemployable in a technological world and will need to fight for low paid unskilled labour.

Barry

[Gem]

Yes. Definitely. I am glad I learnt under the "old regime" of Sky Atlas 2000 and a copy of NGC 2000.

Having said that, I don't begrudge anyone GOTO and use it myself now.
Interestingly, my wife (who is not an astronomer) said that if I get a big dob it has to be NOT GOTO. Since our kids need to learn how to navigate!
She is being a tease this week... "You know I'd buy you a 16" but I just don't know where it would go during the day..."

[Gem]

I should add that some sections of sky are made for GOTO... Scultor and Fornax have so much to offer but I could never really get to know them like the back of my hand... Some sections are a breeze (Crux, Carina, Centaurus, Ara, Scorpius, Sag, Orion, Taurus, Puppis, Canis Maj, LMC, SMC, Pegasus, etc...).

[scagman]

As a total newbie with 3 nights viewing and no knowledge of the night sky except for the southern cross, a goto mount is very handy(lazy? maybe). I think you will still learn the night sky with a goto setup. You still need to know what star you are tring to align to and if your mount is not accuratly aligned to the SCP you could be pointing anywhere at any star.

I find a star, look up its name in starry night then I can look up the name in the mounts controller and have the mount goto it and using starry night or what ever program you like.

So after 3 nights my knowledge base has increased, I can now tell you where Canopus, Rigel, Beatlejuice are.

I have even taught a mate a couple of thinks too.(Talk about the blind leading the blind)


Now pushing a dob around to where you want to point, thats lazy, try doing it manually on an GEM.:P:lol:

So in summary yes a goto is lazier than a push-to but I think you still learn maybe not as much as a push to but you still will learn at least untill you get it aligned nicley:)

[bloodhound31]

I love that GoTo taught me where things are in the sky, so that now I don't need it. It's a great head-start!

[barx1963]

Hey John.
Don't let Les see you spelling Betelguese as "Beatlejuice"!:P

Malcolm

[scagman]

Oops:ashamed: I knew when I was typing it that is wasn't right and meant to go back and fix it up when I looked up what was really called but work got in the way and forgot to do this.

[Nightshift]

Hi Hans, let me answer that with a question.

Do you know how a few keystrokes and a couple of mouse movements got you in to this forum to ask that question or did you learn how to build a computer, write software and communicate via Internet Protocol first?

You dont need to know how something works to enjoy the benefits of it, just look through your eyepiece and marvel at the cosmos.

Dennis.

[kustard]

My first scope was a C8 on a basic fork mount. To find anything required sky knowledge and star hopping and it was great fun! These days however I want to spend more time at the eyepiece than trying to find objects so both my new scopes have GoTo systems.

IMHO anyone starting out would benefit from learning the sky first, you get to know when objects are going to be up during the year and star hopping about lets you find objects you may miss out on.

[wasyoungonce]

Hans....in Victoria the higher level maths offered is Maths Methods (and MM CAS) and Specialist Maths.

Now each of these has 2 final exams and the 1st of each is "non calculator".

This non calculator exam is mutli choice, short and some extended answer. The Questions are written so you can do the answers quickly if you know your processes.

The other exam is written so it encompass use of non-calculator answers and also some that require knowledge of using the calculator.

Extended Answers in both exams must have the working out logic progression written down otherwise you do not get full marks.

The Maths in these subjects is quite intensive, especially Specialist maths.

Kids these days who do these subjects and score well ..... do know their stuff...contrary to popular belief.

Also the lower level maths is also reasonably intensive for the subject matter they cover, "having a calculator" does not dumb them down.

As for "goto"...meh...I'd rather spend my time doing what I want than spending hrs finding objects.

edit:
typo

[Kevnool]

I suppose if you got the cash why not.
Still like to star hop also.

[Stardrifter_WA]

I don't think it is making people lazy. If anything I would have thought that it made the sky more accessible to many more people. Although I still like to star hop, I also like the convenience of GOTO. It takes effort to set up our gear, so it seems reasonable to think that GOTO gives us more quality time at the eyepiece, particularly if you only have a short time available.

[Baddad]

When I first started I lined up my go-to and realised I needed to work on recognition better.
I had a sky map and torch. That killed my night vision but I knew what star it was.
Bleah! Slow and tedious. Trying to find the target objects. Too slow, too hard. Just to set up.
Then I discovered Stellarium. It became a pleasure to be able to find sky objects so easily.

As a part time beginner I find the Go-To now a joy. The precision that is needed to set up was not realised at first.

In a couple of years I will upgrade and start photography. I have nearly all the equipment now. I still need to learn more on operation.

Go-to is helping me learn the sky. Its a memory thing. That means repetition. But someone persists in buying new astro gear in my end of Brisbane. Stimulating cloud formation.

When I find who it is, well, that will have to be censored.

Personally I find Go-to as a learning tool as well.

Cheers

[issdaol]

I was brought up the old fashioned way star hopping with my old Vixen refractor as there was simply no GOTO available in those days.

I still do so even though a EQ mount seems counter intuitive to this as it is still enjoyable.

However I believe that GOTO definitely has a place in that it allows more time at the eyepiece to observe specific targets of interests.

GOTO has also opened up astronomy to the masses of casual observers that do not have the time to learn the sky the way we did in the past. Higher volumes of purchasers has help drive down cost of mass market scopes which has benefited everyone.