??? How does a USD $4,200 scope possibly cost AUD $9,000 here?

[g__day]

This one really puzzles me. I asked Lee at Andrews communications what is the price of a C11 + CGE mount and tripod. Lee can do it for $8,850 (Lee is a good guy)

Interestingly too the complete package of Celestron 11" OTA + CGE mount + Tripod is between USD $3,800 - $4,400 as a retail purchaser from most sites (let alone a dealers discounted buy price)!

As this translates to AUD retail of below $5,945 less US taxes + $300 Fedex + applicable duties, I'm surprised the complete setup I wish for could be imported for well under $6,000 by a private buyer but costs close to $9,000 from a great Australian distributor!

What causes the $3,000 mark-up? Look at

http://celestron.telescopes.com/products/... (http://celestron.telescopes.com/products/Celestron_CGE_1100_Schmidt-Cassegrain_with_StarBright_XLT_Co_2 1448.html)

Celestron CGE 1100 Schmidt-Cassegrain with StarBright XLT Co sku: 11061-XLT <SCRIPT language=javascript> <!-- prodPrice = 4424.00; prodDiscountPrice = 4424.00; if(blockedReferrer .search('overstock.php') >= 0 && prodPrice > prodDiscountPrice){ document.write('<span style="text-decoration:line-through">'); } --> </SCRIPT> <FOOPRICE>$4424.00 (MSRP:$8647.95 - 48.85% savings)</FOOPRICE> <FOOAVAIL>IN STOCK - Ships Immediately.

or

http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-cge-1100-telescope.html (http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-cge-1100-telescope.html)

Product Code: CI-TS-CGE1100 Regular price: <STRIKE>$8,097.95 </STRIKE>Sale price: $4,299.00

Its surprising how much mark up there is that seem to go way beyond typical USA retail prices adjusted for Aussie dollar + import costs and sales duties!

* * *

What is going on here anyone?

[cjmarsh81]

Greed.

[Starkler]

US listed prices are exclusive of their state taxes.
Apart from customs duties payable there is also the gst to add and the likelihood that an international dealer price would be higher than for a US dealer due to high cost of warranty returns.

Then there is also greed .
Aus price of 50% over US price is typical.

[acropolite]

Perhaps also middle men, an Australian importer somewhere in the chain, syphoning off a large percentage of the RRP. :confuse3:

[Striker]

Importing such a large item is risky.....imagine if their was a problem...the cost on sending the item back then return freight would be extreme....probably $500AUD each way...ouch.

Also throw in a 3% paypal fees if thats how you may pay.

But yes their is money to save but this comes with risk.

[Gama]

Actually, the delivery is not correct if shipped by air. Try around $800.00 plus for air. Remeber, its not just weight, but also by size as well.
Also add to this your GST, and remember that you also pay GST on the delivery as well.
This equates to $5946+$800=$6746, add 10% GST plus Customs handling which adds another $800.00, now comes to $7546.
Thats landed in Australia, then add local delivery to your door etc.. had a final cost of about $7600.00.
Next is of course profit, which also includes warranty, which could be anything...
So in the end, its not a huge profit, unless the scope stays perfect for its warranty period, then its pure profit.
Its a gamble with warranty, as freight costs are really expensive. This is the gamble they take. Sometimes they win, sometimes they loose.
I was tossing in either buying local or ordering my scope from U.S.. but in the end i ordered locally after i did the math. I paid about $1,500 more than i would have wanted too, but with freight for my scope at around $1000.00 plus its complexity (RCX-400) it wasnt worth the risk.
Already its worth the trouble, as i had to get a new hand controller.
Finally, the main worth is the SUPPORT you have locally, and they (Dealer) would normally help out as best and many times you need.
Think of it as insurance, wich also costs too much !!!.

[netwolf]

I would assume the low demand in Australia for Telescopes is cause for the higer margin. Importers need to make more return on fewer sales. US from what i have heard is very competitive due to the higher demand there for scopes. I have been to Bintel several times and Andrews once, and I often wonder of the number of scoeps on display how many are sold per month. Unless there is a large increase in demand i dont see the prices coming down. I myself have posted before of the huge price diffrence, but i do understand its a buisness not a chairity. And behind this buisness are people just like us who need to support there families. So i dont belive its just greed, i dont think that is a fair comment. The few if any are the exception rather than the rule.

One option is to start ATM groups that share workshops/tools and materials. I know certain Astronomy clubs in US do this. If we could share and learn and make our own we could reduce the cost, and add another aspect to the hobby.

Regards

[mickoking]

It is supply and demand and the size of our market. The Australian market is a lot smaller therefore something as esoteric as the C11 with the options mentioned will have an extremely small demand hence the price ( plus the middleman ??). With the more popular telescopes like the GSO's the price's in Australia are quite competitive to those in the US. This certainly wasn't the case 10 years ago.

[g__day]

I expect a retailer to make around 10% profit, still seems like alot in the margins!

[[1ponders]]

Agree totally Gama.

My recent experience of importing a G11 is the perfect example. Delivery alone was $424 US and you do have to pay GST on that :eyepop: I ended up saving only about $250 Aus in the end, I think I worked it out to be. Hardly worth the effort but an interesting exercise none the less.

If its a big item with warranty considerations....FWIW IMHO Get it in Australia.

[Vermin]

Yep I looked at importing a GM8 but decided that the amount saved would not be worth the hassle and warranty risk.

My Tele Vue TV101 was a different mater however. I saved a considerable amount when a local retailer refused to budge on price. I was not after a price match as the local warranty has a value, but no, he was not interested. So he lost the sale and I imported it myself.

[janoskiss]

$8850 is not a bad price. Consider:

US price: $US4400
Postage: $US300
US-AUD Conversion rate: $US0.73/$AU1 (you will never get the full current market rate, because banks/paypal will always skim)
Customs duty (on item only): 5%
GST (on everything incl customs duty): 10%

So that is
(4400/0.73 * 1.05 + 300/0.73) * 1.10 = $AU7413

But postage and insurance will probably cost more than $US300. And there will likely be paypal markup and/or bank fees.

[[1ponders]]

Considerably more than US $300 postage Steve. I nearly choked when I read the email with the price.

[g__day]

Lee of Andrews rather helpfully responded that he doesn't source his gear from the USA, but on those deals I linked to Lee said $7,000 landed would be a decent rate covering all overheads - still a $2,000 saving, from Andrews price vs $9,535 from Astronomy Online - showing a $2,500 mark up!

[Robert_T]

Yeh. I think Extra Vision is the sole Australian importer of celestron, they supply lee and York.

cheers,

[Dan31415]

As an economist :screwy: , the reason they charge higher prices is quite simply because they can. The market for selling telescope is far from competitive and there is not particularly good information - by this I mean that people in the market are not aware of all the prices and products that are in the market. Although forums like this one create better information for consumers. If everyone was aware that one shop is generally more expensive than another people will stop shopping there and prices will eventually come down or they will go out of business. On top of this very simple analysis there are other dimensions such as buying power which may reduce costs, market share etc...

A classic example was that I was not aware that myastroshop sold 8 inch dobs for $440 with shipping for $25 until I was advised on one of the forums, now if Andrews can't do a similar deal I will buy from myastroshop, eventually if all 8 inch dob purchasers faced a similar choice set prices will eventually adjusts to similar levels (if there are enough consumers etc..)
:P
Dan

[Starkler]

I think we have seen this with certain Sydney stores.
One has lowered their prices to keep up with an agressive competitor, with another closing their doors.

i would like to think IIS has played a role in keeping the astro shops honest in their pricing :)

[iceman]

Guys,

Just a reminder to be careful when discussing Australian vendors, especially when making broad generalising statements like "greedy" etc. There are forum guidelines for discussing vendors, and several comments in this thread run very close to the line.

Unless you have specific information it's best not to assume or generalise - i'm quite sure some Australian vendors would take offence to some of these statements.

Some comments in this thread have made very valid points about why the price difference exists, and local advice, service and support are 3 main factors. Australian vendors have to pay staff, superannuation, taxes etc. And then try and make a profit in what is a very small Australian astronomy market (compared to the US).

It's also important to remember that some Australian vendors have been very generous in their sponsorship of star parties and other competitions around Australia for many years - supporting the Australian amateur astronomy community. That's hardly greedy, is it?

Anyway, my point is, please be careful when discussing vendors - making broad general statements are a bad idea and have the potential to land people in trouble.

[acropolite]

If you look at the local prices for Meade Scopes and accessories there is only the difference that you would expect and in some cases the difference swings in favour of the Australian reseller, so IMO there is no justification for the enormous disparity in the C11 prices. Australian importers/dealers don't buy at US RRP and although there is GST and perhaps customs duty the formula should still hold true, i.e. If Meade resellers can sell for comparable $AU prices to US dealers why can't Celestron??

[astropolak]

Hi
I thought I will add my 2 cents here.
Please do not forget that some of the local retailers actually have shop fronts.
Yes Iceman - those are the sponsors of this web site. As such I do not mind them to make a bit of profit to coved their high expenses. Others have no shop front and operate on smaller margins and often even are better to deal with. Others still told me to my eyes that they are not interested in showing me "all the eyepieces in the shop" as they are interested in pushing stuff out the door. This particular retailer has a shop front (actually I would call it a shack) and has not one item on display of any quality - but offers to sell you any Celestron product at a discount....

Give me Frontier Optics any time...., or perhaps Bintel if that fails !
RGDS Joe

[Striker]

I purchased my C11 here in Aus from Andrews cheaper then I could purchase it overseas so work that one out.?????

[g__day]

Let me say I have only praise for Lee at Andrews, Astronomy Online, Astro Optical and even Bin Tel upon occassion.

My question was simply about the price differential at RRP, not a wholesaler or importers purchasing power showing us much better value here.

I was pondering why...

[iceman]

Just a correction on this point - there are currently no sponsors of this website.

This website is a labour of love for me, and is funded out of my own pocket and from donations (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/?donate) made by generous forum members.

Some Australian vendors have sponsored IceInSpace run competitions and events - but I have never gained anything from this, financially or otherwise.

[g__day]

Contacted a US scope place asking what is my total cost landed from them...

Great looking scope and mount guys. What is the total price shipped to my door in Sydney (USD or AUD) covering your price and Fedex plus any duties or taxes my end?

* * * * * * * *

Thank you for contacting Telescopes.com.

We like the Celestron CGE 1100 Schmidt-Cassegrain with StarBright XLT Coatings, as well. It IS a great scope.

Unfortunately, Celestron forbids our directly shipping any of its products outside the U.S. and Canada.

There is nothing, however, to bar international customers from making a purchase from us and then arranging for themselves to have it shipped to their location.

To proceed along this route, you might contact www.freight2you.com for a shipping quote.

We will be glad to deliver your purchase to the carrier of your choice at our door, but our dealership agreement bars us from having anything directly to do with shipping arrangements.

[iceman]

Meade have the same policy, afaik.

[cristian abarca]

I had the same problem when I tried to buy a DSI from dealers in the US. I tried the Canadian dealers and they had no problem shipping it out and it cost the same. I thought there was a free trade agreement between the US and Australia.

Regards cristian

[wavelandscott]

The restriction is not imposed by a government but by the manufacturing company. It is not unusual to restrict a retail/distribution company to a particular geography in a distribution agreement. The reasons for this are many and varied and range from wanting to maintain differential pricing in diffrerent regions of the world and/or to wanting to preserve and protect a service oriented local retail distribution system for warranty purposes and various other reasons (may have to do with patents or consumer protection laws etc. etc.) and combinations in between. Selling outside of your "distribution region" can possibly lead to sanctions which might include losing distribution access to products.

I personally suspect that the same restriction exists contractually for the Canadians but they choose to take the risk anyway speculating that they will not likely get caught in a "one off" rule bend.

Two side notes...

Note #1
Know that these same restrictions exist for retail distribution companies here as well...if for arguments sake a manufacture of astro gear (or other stuff) had a lower price for Australia for some reason (a market share penetration exercise or currency fluctuation) the local distributors would be under the same pressure/restriction not to sell outside their geography.

Note#2
The internet and forums like this one make it riskier for overseas companies to ship outside of their defined regions...hence the message posted above from a retail company refusing to "directly" ship...I suspect their offer of helping "indirectly" ship will run close to a violation of their agreement and in making a sale could put at risk their distribution rights in total...I would not be surprised if one or more competitors of the above company did not "turn them in" for offering indirect assistance...in fact, were I a local distributor I would complain about an overseas company violating their geography restriction agreement too...particularly if there is a contractual agreement promising exclusivity for Australia/New Zealand!

So the lesson for us all is, if you find a "great deal" or "connection" from a retailer overseas keep it discreet...don't share the information in a public forum...the more public the knowledge becomes the more likely it will dry up...

Cheers!

[Striker]

Spot on..keep it descreet so knowone gets hurt.

[g__day]

Discrete.......

Well in Australia this is called price fixing, sometimes collusive price fixing which is even more illegal. This behaviour tends to get the notice of ASIC amongst other regulators. Example a Bank in Queenslands offers better rates to customers in Coffs Harbour (NSW) than Brisbane to fuel a regional growth strategy. Someone complains, all manner of **** fall on that bank, it has to offer the same loans to all cystomers and it is fined. Total loss leader for it.

DVDs and region fixing, the regulators are battling in international courts saying it is breaching our domestic laws to artifically spike costs from one geography to another.

Personally I hear about global markets all the time, and am watching international law start to pressure regional price fixing tactics. Rather than pretend it doesn't exist, I'd rather the inconsistences and inequities between local, federal and international laws be corrected by adovacy groups focusing on this and bringing enough pressure and test cases against this.

[Dan31415]

What is even more interesting is retail price maintenance. This is the practice of Wholesalers/Manufactures telling retailers that they cannot discount products. They usually say this to ‘protect’ a brand image or something similar. However, this is illegal – check the ACCC website for some interesting examples. I have personally been told by a retailer (who will remain nameless) that they can not discount a product (which is regarded as a premium product) due to the manufacture not letting them. :doh:

[GrampianStars]

14" f/10 LX200R UHTC US $ 6,349.00
14" f/10 LX200R UHTC Au $12,999.00
14" f/10 LX200GPS-SMT UHTC US $5,299.00
14" f/10 LX200GPS-SMT UHTC Au $9,999.00

What gives :shrug:
$ 3,000 difference in Aust. for LX200R to LX200GPS
compared to US of only $1050
I'm ***** more than double the US price for LX200R :mad2:

OT only 14" f/10 LX200R UHTC US $2990 :thumbsup:
anyone have a spare mount around

Looks like I'll be buying OS
Warranty is not an issue
just insure for shipping

[g__day]

Just a simple point based on currency exchange and taxes. Anything retailing in the USA for say $1,000 will cost a retail buyer $1,500 to get here + transport costs, typically a $120 - $600 overhead. Thus every $1,000 becomes $1,500 is roughly price / 0.74 (exchange rate) * 1.15 (GST and import duties) which is roughly a 50% figure plus freight.


So to import a retail scope worth USA $5,000 expect it to cost you $7,500 + $600, versus buy from a dealer for a price probably around $11K -> $12Kand have some degree of a local 1-3 year warranty that still may have a 2-3 month wait if major parts have to be shipped back.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/ /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face=<font size=" /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>A local dealer generally has a distributor taking a slice (although they should be providing products at a wholesale rate below what we can buy retail, and they should have lower freight costs given their annual buying levels and how much they can bulk their purchases into one large shipment. Then they have to pay rent, staff and overheads… and make a profit.
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>
<o:p></o:p>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>So the situation is rather clearly explainable. The trouble is that if a local provider can’t provide enough value add to justify their overheads, why involve them in the process? They understand this as must provide superior service, local range of products so you’re not waiting months for a purchase or a minor warranty fix, have really buying power translating into lower costs for us and keep their overheads (e.g. rent) to a rock bottom.

[Striker]

It still was cheaper to purchase my C11 with Losmandy G11 & Gemini mount here in Australia then to purchase overseas.

C11 with XLT $3000
Losmandy G11 & Gemini without tripod $4050.

All in the last year.

[g__day]

Where do you get a G-11 + Gemini (without tripod) for $4,050. With tripod ATS say $5,650 (3 days ago), I can't imagine a tripod costs $1,600!

[Striker]

http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/

The tripod was around $1000 which I didn't need.

[janoskiss]

That website is really not doing them any favours. :rolleyes:

[Striker]

Why not.....???????

The G11 is on that page...what are you on Steve.

[janoskiss]

Losmandy is there allright, but try to find the prices for anything else. :P
The whole site is a big mess. E.g., Click on Here is the Index then goto Telescopes and follow the drivel! :rofl: I dare you to find any telescopes for sale in there. Or try and find eyepieces for sale on the site without using google. :P

[g__day]

Interesting, Losmandy Gemini G-11 for $4,950 seems much better price than ATS! But reading on a Celestron CGE at $6,100 seems crazy in comparison!

Yes the navigation on that site is surreal, try here for their scopes: http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/celestron-pricelist.htm

[GrampianStars]

http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/

Matt is a great guy to deal with
quick delivery of product as well :thumbsup: