Mounts: CGE vs Losmandy

[g__day]

I,m interested in this subject so have been reading. The prices in USA are within $100, the CGE is a newer design with less cable clutter, the Losmandy might have slightly better precision and spare part support.

Interested in folks thoughts on both as an imaging platform for around 11" SCTs.

[[1ponders]]

No good asking me. I'm biased. See Sig.

If you can get hold of it, about 3 or 4 months ago AS&T, S&S ?? did a review of a number of different mounts. These two were in the review. If you can did them up they might help though the specs were a bit brief.

Any particular reason for an 11" SCT (celestron)?

[Striker]

Doesn't a CGE mount have problems at Zenith due to its design.?????

[JohnG]

The G-11 and the Celestron C11 were actually designed to work as such together.

JohnG

[g__day]

1ponders - just a feel it might be a good all round scope.

Striker - think you're confusing that with a fork mount!

JohnG - noted and agreed!

[g__day]

Interesting POV - putting CGE ahead...
http://www.astronomy.com/ASY/CS/forums/244732/ShowPost.aspx

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" align=left><TBODY><TR><TD class=f vAlign=top width="100%" height=10><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR vAlign=center><TD align=left>RE: Losmandy G-8/11 vs Celestron CGE
</TD><TD align=right height=25><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom><TD class=txt3 align=left></TD><TD align=right><NOBR></NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=fh3 vAlign=top height=100><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width="100%" align=left><TBODY><TR><TD width=1 rowSpan=2>http://www.astronomy.com/ASY/CS/Themes/default/images/spacer.gif </TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 6px; PADDING-LEFT: 4px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 6px; PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top width="100%" colSpan=3><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD class=txt3 vAlign=top align=left>I currently use the Tak NJP, CGE, and LX200. I have used both the Losmandy GM-8 and G-11 in the past. The NJP is in a league of its own. The CGE is better than the G-11, but not by much. So, if you must have GOTO with the mount, I recommend the CGE. If you want to save some money, you could get a stock G-11 without Gemini GOTO. Either way, guiding and tracking will be very similar, though the CGE will be a little more "polished."

As for the OTA, I'm a big believer in starting out at low focal lengths and working your way up. It gets exponentially more difficult as you go up. Thus, the CGE or G-11 is a good starting point but I'd recommend getting a small apochromatic refractor to begin your astroimaging career. The Tak Sky 90 is probably the best compromise on price and functionality for this purpose. That would still leave money left over for a good CCD camera, or something like a Canon Digital Rebel or Nikon D70. If you get the Sky 90 on Astromart, you'll be able to resell it for close to what you paid for it should you ever feel the need to go bigger.

As much as everybody talks about the Fastar, why is it that very few people actually use it, at least not for an extended amount of time? It's good to start with because you don't have to guide the exposures due to the fast speeds and small image scale, but you'll outgrow it pretty quickly. An apo refractor is more versatile and will give better quality images.

I think when it comes to imaging, it's good to progress up the scale a bit, moving from OTA to OTA as your skills (and mount) improve. An example:

1.) Piggyback lenses from 28mm to 300mm
2.) Smaller apochromats like the Sky 90, TV-85, FS-60, or Orion 80mm ED.
3.) Small astrographs like the Tak FSQ-106, TV NP-101, or Tak Epsilons
4.) Medium sized apochromats like the Tak FS-128/152, AP 130, or TMB 130.
5.) Small catadioptric like the Vixen VC200L or 8" SCT with focal reducers.
6.) Larger catadioptics like the C-11, C-14, or comparable Meades.
7.) Long focal length astrographs like the Tak Mewlon, BRC, or Ritchey-Chretien Cassegrains.

You obviously spend money as you go up the list, but jumping straight to the longer focal lengths before you have the requisite skills can be pretty frustrating.

Good luck on your purchase...just do your research before you buy. My best advice is to look at tons of pictures on the Internet. Notice what equipment people are using. This will give you a good indication of what people are using and why. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[JohnG]

I think one should put the specks of both the CGE and the G-11 side by side and you will clearly see what comes out in front. No contest as far as I am concerned.

JohnG

[g__day]

Agreed, still looking for the definitive specs - got them by any chance?

[JohnG]

For Losmandy, look here:
http://www.losmandy.com/g-11.html

Celestron CGE, I think it is www.celestron.com (http://www.celestron.com)

When I was looking I actually was leaning towards the CGE until I did a side by side comparision, the specs that matter really stand out.

JohnG

[g__day]

Don't keep me in suspense! What swung it for you please!

[JohnG]

It was fairly easy actually, I am quite used to using the GM-8 and was aware of it's capabilities and of late I have been getting back into photography. My decision was based on what my future needs are and as to what type of telescope I will be getting within the next 2 years.

As I said, I compared the CGE and the G-11 side by side by looking at the specs and using my own gut feeling as to what would do the better job (based on nearly 35 years experience in visual astronomy). When you look at the specs the CGE is substantually lighter in that department, I looked at things like shaft diameters, bearing, worm, gear diameter, how many teeth on the drive gear, I will agree that the CGE has GOTO whereas the G-11 has that as an option and, as I already have a Gemini unit, I replaced the Digital Drive with it. The other thing I looked at was service and the availability of spare parts, one other thing is that the Losmandy D plate is now nearly the industry standard. From what I have seen and read, Celestron service leaves a lot to be desired and the last time I looked, the GOTO system was still a bit buggy. I agree Gemini still has some bugs but Level 4 is due for release soon.

I would love to afford a Tak EM200 GOTO or an NJP but it is not going to happen. I am quite comfortable pulling a Losmandy apart and am extremely familiar with the little jobs that need to be done on it, eg gear mesh, backlash, regreasing etc. PE is now a lot better than it used to be as the GM-8 and G-11 are now shipped with the High Precission Worm and that has made a lot of difference. Whilst not perfect straight out of the box I doubt that you will get a better mount within the price range.

For me, the G-11 is mounted in the Observatory and does everything I want and hopefully in about 20 months will have a Tak Mewlon 250 mounted on it.

In the end what swung it for me, overall simplicity of design, ease of service, workmanship and compatible with just about anything you can throw at it.

JohnG

[g__day]

John,

Thanks very much for that review. I saw that both mounts look like quality offerings, but I'm not sure who in Australia offers the best price and service on these two offerings.

Too me both look like excellent mounts at this price point, the G-11 + Gemini and CGE + Sky Scan are likely to be very equal in price.

I kinda expected the older Losmandy gear to win based on sheer build quality.

Can anyone say what service is like on these two mounts in Australia?

[JohnG]

Can't comment on Celestron but I have had my GM-8 since 2000 and it has never been to any dealer for a service, it is so simple I pull it apart myself without any problems, I have regreased, cleaned clutch pads, adjusted backlash and gear mesh without any problem.

I believe there are other dealers but I got my Losmandy through Peter Ward at ATS, some I think have imported direct from the US, any bits I need I import through OPT.

JohnG

[[1ponders]]

I bought my G11 direct from OPT and by the time freight, GST and import duties get figured into the account I was really no better off than buying it in Australia. Buying addition bits though is a different story. I nearly always get them from OPT.

In Aus, Peter Ward at http://www.atscope.com.au/ carries Losmandy gear and Matthew from http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au/ carries the mounts. Last I looked Peter was charging around $5000 I'm not sure about Matthew (check with Striker he bought the last one from Matthew when I wanted one :mad::poke: ) and I think that was around the same price. Both with Geminii

[Striker]

It cost me $4050 for the G11 with gemini but thats with no tripod from Mathew just a 4 months ago.

[g__day]

Lee from Andrews Communications just came back with a very nice price when I asked for a C11 + CGE and tripod, I'm just qualifying the price does include the scope.

Amazingly the USD price for these complete configurations with the premium lens coatings is around $4,200 - $4,400 which is a bit under $6K Aussie - which Lee can do (if I read his e-mail correctly), whereas astronomy-online in brookvale have the same model for $9,535 - over a $3,000 mark-up unless there website is way outta date. I've asked Mark there to check prices and confirm to me.

At least I am getting closer to determining what I want (can possible afford), which would be

C11 on either a CGE or G-11+Gemini, eventually add a 80mm ED refracter and a S-BIG imager / auto guider and get a pier and mount the gear on that 99% of the time so there is practically zero set-up time. Probably desire binoviewers too eventually!

So if I could fit this within a $11K budget by starting with an around $6K spend on scope+mount+tripod, then adding a pier, then ED refractor then finally CCD over time...

Dreams :)

In fact pretty close to Tony - Strikers set-up in the tag line just above this post. I take it you're totally happy with that darn nice looking set-up mate?

[seeker372011]

I noticed that Ted Dobosz is selling his C 11 -7 years old -OTA only-for $1500..advertised in Universe, the ASNSW mag

[JohnG]

I don't know what type of saddle plate the CGE has but you might want to take that into consideration. The G-11 comes with an 8" 'D' series saddle plate, in the configuration your considering you might want to look a bit further down the line at how your imaging setup is going to be. If you are planning side by side setups I would suggest you ascertain what fits what. For Losmandy, have a look at the website for their double saddle plate arrangement and for the pier your suggesting, the MA adapter. Other websites to consider include Robin Cassidy and ADM for plates and rings.

These are the things I took into consideration in my final assessment

What your planning looks like it will fall well in side the 2/3rd rule.

JohnG

[Robert_T]

Keep us posted - if Lee can really do the CGE for that price it would be great. Wonder how much he could do just the CGE mount for?

cheers,

[g__day]

Nope,

Lee only answered the CGE mount plus tripod part of my 11" OTA + CGE + tripod is $5,750 of my question. So he is selling it for MORE than a Losmandy G-11 + Gemini Goto which is ridiculous! Making OTA + CGE + tripod $8,850 again too steep vs USA RETAIL buy prices of around USD $4,200 asking price which with AUD at $0.74 under $6,000.

So Lee's price is far, far above expected.

I've replied to him:

Thanks for that clarification - mind you that is the first time I've seen the CGE mount cost more than the better quality and capability Losmandy G-11 + Skyscan (circa AUD $5,000 from two Australian distributors)!

Interestingly too the complete package of Celestron 11" OTA + CGE mount + Tripod is between USD $3,800 - $4,400 as a retail purchaser from most sites! As this translates to AUD retail of below $5,945 less US taxes + $300 Fedex + applicable duties, I'm surprised the complete setup I wish for could be imported for well under $6,000 by a private buyer but costs close to $9,000 from a great Australian distributor! What causes the $3,000 mark-up? Why do a few US website sell this for $8000 when most sell it for low $4000, have a new price release not been wildly distributed?

Look at

http://celestron.telescopes.com/products/Celestron_CGE_1100_Schmidt-Cassegrain_with_StarBright_XLT_Co_2 1448.html (http://celestron.telescopes.com/products/Celestron_CGE_1100_Schmidt-Cassegrain_with_StarBright_XLT_Co_2 1448.html)

Celestron CGE 1100 Schmidt-Cassegrain with StarBright XLT Co sku: 11061-XLT <SCRIPT language=javascript> <!-- prodPrice = 4424.00; prodDiscountPrice = 4424.00; if(blockedReferrer .search('overstock.php') >= 0 && prodPrice > prodDiscountPrice){ document.write('<span style="text-decoration:line-through">'); } --> </SCRIPT> <FOOPRICE>$4424.00 (MSRP:$8647.95 - 48.85% savings)</FOOPRICE> <FOOAVAIL>IN STOCK - Ships Immediately.

Given Aussie spot is $0.74 that's under $6,000 for a retail price, not even best offer price, and this is simply the first website I surfed to, many have it at lower prices, e.g

http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-cge-1100-telescope.html (http://www.opticsplanet.net/celestron-cge-1100-telescope.html)

Product Code: CI-TS-CGE1100 Regular price: <STRIKE>$8,097.95 </STRIKE>Sale price: $4,299.00

Its surprising how much mark up there is that seem to go way beyond typical USA retail prices adjusted for Aussie dollar + import costs and sales duties!

[Striker]

haha thats new....

I know exactly what you mean regarding prices....thats why I have purchased around $10,000 worth overseas.

[Robert_T]

looks like the best bet might be to buy the OTA from lee and then get yourself a G11 locally...:shrug:

[g__day]

Totally agree - might try getting a second hand 11" OTA and buy the G-11 + Gemini. Fancy economics forcing me to adopt the better decision anyway!

[JohnG]

There is a second hand C11 on Peter Ward's ATS site.

JohnG

[h0ughy]

no the c11 OTA is sold I believe after an inquiry i made, there is a Carbon fibre goto there but

[JohnG]

Geez, it has been there for months, when I looked last night it was still there, ah well I tried.

JohnG

[g__day]

In a word..... bugger!