Something to Consider

[renormalised]

Given the troubles that are occurring in the UK and other countries with regards to how our societies are going, with the economic and political system basically failing to account for the real needs of society. More concerned with feathering the pockets of their big business and financial mates, themselves and others rather than look after the people they "apparently" represent, here is something that I feel is of real interest.

You may not agree with everything that is said in this, but keep an open mind to what it says, given the way things are going. Surely we deserve something much better than this current system. And when I mean "we", I mean everyone on the planet, not just a small elite or any particular nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWTIWqvYRu0&feature=player_embedded

It's quite long, so watch it when you can:)

[Octane]

Ooh, a part 3? Will let it load up.

They still on about the Venus Project?

H

[renormalised]

Yep, a part 3.

Nothing wrong with the Venus Project, in so far as its technological and sociological implications are concerned. Might look a little kitsch, but it's only a conceptual view of what might be possible, if we decide to do the right thing.

[CraigS]

The first time I've encountered this one .. and there seems to be a lot to absorb, (so my views are not by any means informed, as yet), but there is a history of many systems which would, on paper, seem to cure all of society's shortcomings.

From these experiences, it seems fairly clear that when humans attempt to reject their very nature (with all its shortcomings), in favour of what they'd like to be (with all its positiveness), the implementation of such systems proves to be extremely difficult. Perhaps our intellect can never rule our hearts, entirely. :question:

Being driven by historical precedent however, usually results in another lap around the same loop. Is the same loop all that problematic in the first place? :question:

One thing I do know, is that the power of choice is fundamental to us all .. as is our understanding and coming to grips with, our darker side.

Cheers

[renormalised]

We are who we are, Craig. However, we're not, by and large, a selfish species. If we were, we wouldn't have lasted as long as we have. This business about "our baser natures" ruling the roost is mostly 19th Century psychological claptrap that's been perpetuated to varying degrees since then. However, that doesn't mean to say that we necessarily follow a more enlightened path, given that the present system is anything but....and is based on selfishness and greed.

It's a very complex business and it will take a fundamental change to sort it out, but we can do it. If we want to. Though, it will most likely be forced upon us to change, otherwise we'll go the way of the dodo.

[AstralTraveller]

Craig, if we ever do change society with our intellect for the good of the majority it will be a first - on both counts. I think societies have tended to change and then the justification of the new order follow. And to the extent that the change has benefited the majority it has only been a by-product. Having said that I do think we need to try and change the world for the better using our intellect. I know it has never been done but the great majority of people have never been so qualified for the job. Are we yet up to the task?? :shrug: Wish I knew. :question:

[marki]

This might interest you Carl, it is a cut and paste from one of the PDF files downloadable from their website.

Why are many so-called
scientists today working on esoteric interests like ‘black holes’, ‘quantum fields’ and ‘terra-forming’
other planets, when we can’t even take care of ourselves yet!

Hmmmmmm not sure about this.

Mark

[supernova1965]

I am a lot more optimistic for the future I mean there are lots of things that used to be acceptable like slavery of all types that is not exceptable now for one example social evolution will not happen quickly the same as physical evolution takes millions of years it won't happen over night but it will happen.:thumbsup:

[marki]

Agree with this though.

Goals
-Clean air and water, nutritious food, material abundance, fast, clean, and efficient transportation,
relevant education, public health care, the end of war, personal liberty, an environment that enables
us to constantly improve our abilities, human extensionality, reduced stress, and reduced crime.

[renormalised]

Most of those working on this aren't scientists....that's their problem with things like this. They don't understand the efficacy of pure science. It's from pure science that the breakthroughs come. When you suddenly see something you never expected that turns out to have a myriad of application never even dreamed of. They are so caught up in the way things have become that they can't see the good when it presents itself to them. They only see the bad and what they feel needs to be done in order to fix the problem. Which is commendable, however they need to realise that humanity is more than just a narrowly defined species which concentrates solely on survival and what needs to be done in order to assure this. It's our curiosity which will ultimately save us from anything stupid we, or anyone else, may do. We learn by wanting to know.

They need more people with that attitude in their organisation. Our problems are numerous and onerous, but to give up our curiosity in order just to survive will ultimately lead us to our own demise. It's what we find....out there, so to speak, which may hold our answers we seek.

[renormalised]

The aims of any decent and honorable citizen of our planet...and of the society in which they live.

Totally agree.

[renormalised]

That evolution/revolution will not happen unless people such as yourself want to make that change happen. You, me, all of us, need to want that change to happen. Or, at least, get the ball rolling. Before it's too late, or it's at a point where we've been kicked so far into the gutter that getting up is going to be painful.

[marki]

Carl, go here and download the PDF files under education if you haven't already done so. Makes for some interesting reading.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/


Mark

[supernova1965]

The series of books on Mars Red,Blue and Green have a good description of what our society is just starting to experience I think it is in the second book when the polar caps melt on earth flooding the populated regions and what happens after that. Almost a manual on how to deal with the issues we are starting to face now.

[CraigS]

I disagree with mixing social agendas with science.

The dispassionate value forwarded by the scientific perspective is lost when skewed by a social belief. There is no truth in what science attempts to illuminate. It is a tool invented by humans. The tool of social engineering is politics and is necessarily skewed.

As I have said in the past about scientific theory:

"Try it on .. see if it fits … but whatever you do, don't believe it !"

… as soon as you do, the value bubble bursts ... freedom of choice disappears and political and religious agendas set in.

Not for me.

Cheers

[renormalised]

That's the only problem with what they're trying to achieve. What they're doing is replacing politics with the scientific method. I agree with you in that science is just a tool. It's a tool that can be used to run a society, if it's done in the right context and in the right way. But like politics, in the wrong hands it can and will be abused to suit others agendas. What they need is a sort of hybrid of politics and science in the sense that politics is reduced to its most basic components and the scientific method is then incorporated into that system as a decision making device. Tools can be modified to suit other purposes than the ones they were originally designed to service. That's what I feel is needed here.

There's no real freedom of choice with the present system, despite whatever you might think. We're only kept on a long leash that could and will be pulled in if and when we get a little "too big for our boots" so far as the ruling elites are concerned.

That's why with any system of social organisation, the people have to be very careful about who they put in charge. Which is the reason why they need to become more aware of what they're supposed to do within that society and how it's to be run. The present system is setup to keep everyone "happy" and fooled into believing they have it good, but what it's really for is to keep the status quo going for those that are really benefiting from it. We're being used and abused, and most are too brainwashed to realise it (or don't care).