QHY9 mono specs

[multiweb]

Hi guys, starting to ask a couple of questions as I just got a QHY9 mono.

1_ I understand the CCD chamber is sealed so does that mean the camera can be run without a glass nosepiece.

2_ I read here (http://qhyccd.com/knowledge/) that the distance between the CCD surface and the M42 thread is 15mm. I measured 6mm from the camera face to the sealed chanber glass. So this means the CCD is only 9mm below that window? So 15mm all up? Or is it 15mm from the chamber glass?

3_ The QHY8 distance from CCD to camera face is 6mm. If the AHY9 is now 15mm can I still use the QHY8 adaptor on the Hyperstar for the C11. Any of you guys image with a QHY9 with an hyperstar 3? Did you get another custom adaptor.

That's all for now. Thanks for any pointers. :thumbsup:

[Marke]

Marc I have a qhy10 with the glass front, not sure if yours is the same
but if it is then its N2 purged and sealed with a little screw on the side.
If moisture gets in there was a supplied desiccant chamber with mine
that goes on in place of this screw in order to remove moisture. Then you
put the screw back to seal it. The glass should be left on the front to seal it
and protect it from frosting.

[multiweb]

The QHY10 is a different design again. There's a dessicant plug for the QHY9 too. I just want to know if it's ok to run the QHY9 with the main camera body to ambient air.

[Marke]

From my understanding doing that will cause it to frost over as the ccd is directly exposed to the air which would not be a good thing. :shrug:

[multiweb]

The CCD itself is in a sealed chamber so you mean the chamber window might dew up then? The CCD is never in contact with ambient air whether the camera body is open or not.

[Marke]

Yep thats what i meant Marc sorry , isnt the glass front on the qhy9 heated to
stop dewing ? With out that it would most likely dew or frost
over I would have though.

[multiweb]

Not sure what gets heated. The nosepiece glass or the sealed chamber front glass. Doesn't say in the manual but you're right I've read somewhere something gets heated. :shrug:

[Marke]

I think its the front glass cover that gets heated not the glass protecting the CCD

[multiweb]

Damn... If I have to keep the nosepiece in place I'm going to have work out all my spacings again. :(

[Marke]

I dont envy you there :(

[marki]

Hi Marc

The distance from the chip to the front face of the camera is 15mm. The nose piece adds 12mm to give you 27mm from chip to front of nose piece. This is without taking into account the extra distance added by the glass filter in the nose and the glass plate that covers the CCD chip itself (some argument over whether its relevent or not but I dont bother and my spacings work fine). The camera will run happily without the nose piece with the only difference being a higher TEC draw to achieve required temps. The CCD chamber is sealed and nitrogen purged and as I read it this is a seperate entity from the space sealed by the nose piece. The heating ring sits on the top board (nearest the camera face) and warms the air in front of the CCD chamber to prevent dew forming on the UV/IR filter mounted in the nose piece. You can also use the desicant plug if need be. Hope that helps.

Mark

[multiweb]

Well I opened it and it looks like the heater is located under the board next to the sealed chamber window so that's fine. Pfweehh...:)

[multiweb]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Mark. So that's only 9mm deeper than my QHY8 sensor which was 6mm from camera face. That is going to make life much easier as I can make up for the gap easily. I wasn't too sure if the QHY9 could be run without the nosepiece but it seems that it's quite ok. Removing the 12mm nosepiece leaves me with the 15mm that I can play with.

I'll have to chat with Theo to see if mine was nitrogen purged. In the end dessicant strips and regular inspection of the contact pins are the way to go. My QHY8 is 4yrs old now and still working perfectly without a hint of corrosion because I've always opened it up after each session and dried it out before storing it.

I have it working fine in Neb2 and Maxim DL 5.x as an Ascom camera. I was shooting some darks and playing with the TEC on the bench last night. Temp control is new to me so I'm experimenting. When you set the cooling point in Maxim to let's say -10c it goes down to -20c or less. It also fluctuates a lot +/-7c. Is this normal? I thought the regulation would have been within +/- 1c ? Or does it need time to settle down?

I used Gain 1 Offset 60 and apart for hot pixels 10min darks were ink black. No noise. I couldn't even stretch the data. So I think something's not right. The camera is working because if I do a 1s exp without the cap on I get saturated white. I just thought it was odd to have hardly any signal on a 10min dark. Maybe gain1 is too low. What do you use?

[mill]

Hi Mark i use gain 3 and Offset 112.
Maxim keeps the temp +/- 0.5 C on my setup and when i set it on -20 it goes to -20 no more and no less so it is not normal that you have a large fluctuation and the temp goes to -20 or more when it is set to -10.
I am not using nitrogen (just warm air while assembling) and never get the chip frozen over.
You better talk to Theo about this strange behavior, it might be something simple.

[multiweb]

Thanks Martin. I'll do some more testing today then contact him. :thumbsup:

Something's definitely fishy. If I set the point to 0c the TEC will kick in and get the camera down to -28c then the TEC will go off, the Camera will slowly warm up again until it passes 0c then the TEC will kick in again at 3c and bring the camera back down to -28c again. So wether it doesn't regulate properly of Maxim is giving me incorrect readings? :shrug: See attached snapshots.

I'm doing this indoors so ambient is approx 20c.

[mill]

:lol::lol: It is Martin, but you can call me Rob :P

[multiweb]

Sorry mate. I'm talking to too many people at the same time. :lol:

[mill]

No worries, here is a site explaining gain and offset http://www.stark-labs.com/blog/files/GainAndOffset.php

[multiweb]

Thanks mate. I have no problem with Gain/Offset settings at this stage. Regulating the cooling in Maxim DL is the issue.

It goes up and down the full range from ambient down to maximum cooling then does it again and again even when I start the warm up sequence at the end. It reaches ambient then the TEC kicks in again full blast. This is very very weird. I don't know if it's a software issue at this stage or a hardware problem with the QHY9.

Power supply is a steady regulated 12.2V input from a lab power supply at the moment.

[multiweb]

Narrowed this down to the ASCOM driver. So software issue I think at this stage. Even with Maxim DL disconnected and off the TEC kicked in again from Neb as soon as I connected the QHY9 via the ascom driver. Even with TEC unchecked. When I pressed OK I saw the CAM drawing amps on the power supply straight away so I assume starting cooling as the TEC led turned on on the DC102. Downloading the latest ascom platform 6 now and will try again. Joys of new gear... :P

[multiweb]

New ASCOM platform, new drivers - same problem. :rolleyes: Temperature set point is ignored. :shrug:

PS: added a snapshot of EZcap window. Set point is -20c. Graph oscillates between top (-13.7c) and bottom (-26.9c).

PSS: addedd another snapshot. This time set point to -25c. Bounces between -30.1c and 16c. 14 degrees amplitude, consistent with previous graph.

How's the regulation done? In the camera internally or via the DC201? Maybe that bit is faulty assuming the camera sensor temp readings are correct.

[Marke]

Definatly something a miss Marc , my QHY10 goes directly to what ever
temp I set with no bouncing around at all with TEC on and it uses the same DC201 and latest drivers :question:

[multiweb]

So you pretty much flatline on the setpoint or close to it? Do you know how much Amps the camera draws when the TEC regulates? Does it vary? Mine is full 3A each time it turns on. No ramping up or down. I suspect that maybe why it's bouncing. Like autoguiding with max aggressiveness. :question:

[Marke]

If I set it at -15c it may go to 0c for a min or 2 then down to -17c then in a few min settle at -15 give or take about 0.2c so as close as I can reasonably expect. I havent payed much attention to power draw just
that the temp was spot on as far as I was concerned and did it in a couple steps. Maybe try reinstalling the drivers again ?

ps try a few different temps and see , maybe its having trouble getting to -20

[multiweb]

Did that already and also tried two separate ascom platforms: 5.5 and 6.0. Same result in 3 softwares as well. Maximd DL 5.x, Nebulosity 2.x and EZcap supplied by supplier.

I restored the laptop back from a previous image without any drivers each time so I know it's not an old driver conflict. I suspect the DC-201 but without knowing more how it operates I can only speculate at this stage.

Otherwise I shot some darks and it seems ok. Just the TEC playing yoyo.

[Marke]

Check the cable out to - I find that the pins are easily bent , even try a diff cable ?

[multiweb]

I have only one cable. It's brand new and the pins look fine. I posted on QHYCCD forums as well. Will wait for Theo to chip in. It's gotta be something simple. Everything else seems to work fine out of the box.

[multiweb]

Well it's reproducible. Left the camera on for an hour with -25c set point. Plenty of time to settle. It's bouncing between -16c an -30.1c. Exactly like before. Since then the Camera was powered down and the laptop rebooted.

[multiweb]

Well according to QiuHY could be the DC-201. :) Relief! :P

[Marke]

Hopefully you can swap it over and all good :thumbsup: frustating in the mean time though.

[marki]

Hi Marc

The offset and gain settings will be specific for your camera. I have just reset my gain and offset as a took a new darks library. My settings are Gain = 15, offset = 115. This gives me a dynamic range of 500 - 65450 ADU.

I only use Maxim (via ascom driver) and set the temp at -20. The camera will overshoot (~ -22 to 23) then fall back below the set temp then gently creep up to a stable temp of -20. Once there it never moves, just stays rock solid, only the current draw moves (usually down as the night progresses). I never bother going below -20 as it makes bugger all difference to noise even though the camera can easily reach -30 and beyond. Just stresses the peltier and you will shorten its working life plus I can use -20 all year round both summer and winter. Also Marc why do you have two exact same temp readings in those images you posted from Maxim? There is no guider attached so there should be "no camera" in the second box. Not sure why its there..

Cheers

Mark

[RobF]

Mine behaves same as Martin describes Marc - bit of overshoot (degree or two) for a minute or two before stabilising within 0.5 degree of temp for ages. Sounds like something is amiss. Theo will help sort.

[multiweb]

Thanks Mark. Yeah I'll sort out the gain/offset looking at my skycount once I have this TEC sorted out. My camera overshoots the target by a lot (>10c) then oscillates a lot (+/-7c) but doesn't settle down. Even after one hour. I did three tests. One at -15c, one at -20c and one at -25c. At -25c it bounced between -16c and -31c continually. I posted all the graphs on QHYCCD and QiuHY said the DC201 is faulty or the power supply is faulty. I replaced the power supply and tested again. Same erratic behaviour. Nothing like what you guys are experiencing.

re: Maxim DL I must have setup the second camera as a QHY as well from previous tests.

[multiweb]

Thanks Rob. Yes. It seems consistant across all QHY9 user feedbacks I've got so far. I'm liaising with Theo right now.

[marki]

Marc if the second camera is not connected then there should be no reading in that second panel at all. I am a little confused as to why it is there. Yes by the description you gave of the TEC behaviour something is definately amiss. It takes mine about 5 mins to equalise at -20 and generally moves between -19.9 to -20.1 at the absolute most but only as the TEC % backs off during the night as it gets colder and it is hunting for the new setting. I am sure Quiy and Theo know what they are doing and will have you sorted quickly :thumbsup:.

Mark

[multiweb]

I have no idea why either but not worried about it at this stage. One thing at a time. Theo should be sending me another DC201 soon to test again. 1% on the TEC power slider will bring the temp to -30c so it's all or nothing. It doesn't regulate. 1% or 70% has the same effect and I think that's where the problem lies.

[marki]

Yep sounds like the problem all right. Make sure he sends you another cable as well just to be sure. If all is working well the fan on the camera will not start until you turn on the coolers in maxim. Also watch the TEC light on the DC201. It should not light up until you turn the cooler on.

Mark

[multiweb]

Theo's tested another camera + power unit and shipped them to me already. No questions asked. Should get it tomorrow. Sent back this one with the DC201. He'll figure out what's wrong with it.

[marki]

He is very good isn't he :). It should all go well from here.


Mark

[multiweb]

Well I've got the new camera on the bench now cooling in MaximDL and it's doing what it's told. Beautiful. :)

[Marke]

:D:thumbsup: thats what we like to hear

[multiweb]

Playing with the gain and offset shooting darks now. Is there a way to modify that in Maxim without disconnectting the camera to access the ASCOM setup?

[Omaroo]

Dammit - you could have my QHY-9 almost new and certainly cheaper. I'm thinking of moving it on and going back to simple DSLR until I manage to build that observatory one day.

Good camera... just aren't using it enough.

Have fun with it!

[Hagar]

From memory, on the exposure tab, open options and I think there is camera setting option.
I don't have maxim with me to check.

As for gain and offset. There was a post on here some time back on technical correct method of setting both. Craig stark also has a good write up on setting and forgetting these settings in the manual for nebulosity on his web site.

[WingnutR32]

Marc, you can definetly change the Gain and Offset of the camera without having to disconnect it and change it back in the ASCOM properties.

On the exposure tab, click the Option > (right arrow) button and choose "Camera Settings". It should bring up the ASCOM dialog box with access to Gain and Offset sliders.

[multiweb]

Thanks guys. That's where it was :)

@chris: don't you sell it. That would be a few step backwards. Persevere.

PS: as a quick note I'm using the ASCOM platform 6.0 with the same QHY9 drivers. No issues. So if you guys are thinking of upgrading it's all good. It's a straight update. No need to uninstall anything. Everything else works as well. PEMpro, Gemini, etc... even Neb2.

[multiweb]

There is a cool feature that is in neb. You can append the UTC time to the filename. This way each file saved is unique. The problem with a sequential naming is that it's based on the last file saved. If you delete the files, then it starts again from 1. So if you happen to move the file again to another machine you'll end up overwritting the previous batch. Does Maxim have a facility where you can tell him what the name of the file will be based on time? Or maybe the name can be scripted. I have to look into the scripting. Looks like vbs?

PS: I added one 5min dark (http://www.astropic.net/astro/Dark-Master-bin1x1--20C-300-seconds.jpg) I did last night. A stack of 104 subs. Is this similar to what you guys are getting. -20c. Also added a snapshot of the ASCOM config for the cam. What's the fine tune boxes for? Also left the pedestal to 88. Not sure what it is and finally Motor Heating% !? What is that?

Got a PM back from Theo. The old QHY9 was fine. It was a faulty DC201 going full throttle all the time then cutting so no regulation. All or nothing. That's what caused the temp seesaw pattern. Always overshooting then cutting.