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multiweb
21-07-2011, 07:16 AM
I'm looking to buy a small keyboard for my 12yr old daughter. She started music in highschool. I don't know much about keyboard. I'm more of a guitar man but I remember in my days Yamaha used to be tops. I want to buy quality and something that will last so what would you guys recommend? Thanks. :thumbsup:

TheDecepticon
21-07-2011, 07:19 AM
Hi Marc!

How much do you want to pay? This will be the most limiting factor. Also, a true electronic keyboard or an electronic piano?

Gray.

mikerr
21-07-2011, 08:09 AM
Marc, something in this range might be worth a look.

http://www.casio-intl.com/emi/high_grade/

I purchased a Casio keyboard for my son some years ago and it was very good. Their range goes above and below the one in the link.

Just make sure it has a Headphone socket!!!!:lol:
Good luck

Michael

Hagar
21-07-2011, 08:14 AM
Hard to go past Roland or Yamaha. I bought my daughter a Roland when she started High school and she still uses it and works as a music teacher. 11 years old and it hasn't missed a beat.

Poita
21-07-2011, 08:23 AM
I teach piano, and we use the Casio X30 range, we have retired our Yamahas.

If you want your daughter to be able to play a real piano, the hammer action on the Casio CXP 130, 330, 730 etc is the best at the price.
The keyboard action feels like a real piano, down to the higher pitched keys feeling slightly lighter than the low pitch ones.

All of the X30 range have the exact same keyboard action and mechanics, the difference between them is the quality of the speakers, and the options (midi, line-outs, voices, recording capability and so on.)

You can get the 330 on ebay for $889 and can pick it up from the music store in Sydney, or they will post it for I think $69. It really is a great deal and has a 5 year warranty.

They hold their value too, if in 6 months your daughter doesn't stick with it, then you could sell it without losing much on it.
In fact, I'll buy it off you before Christmas if you don't like it, I'm getting my daughter her own one for Chrissy this year.

The Yamahas and Rolands are great, but you spend considerably more money to get as good a hammer action and sounds, at the same price-point as the casio the Yamahas and Rolands are considerably worse.

I gig with the 330, it is an excellent piece of gear and has stood up to many knocks and pub environments, and sounds like a real piano.

If you want to save some money, then get the 130, the on-board speakers aren't as good, but through an amp or powered speakers it will sound the same as the other X30s, but the keyboard is identical in feel.

If money is no object, go straight to the Roland V-Piano, it is a fantastic piece of kit, but very pricey.

multiweb
21-07-2011, 09:21 AM
Up to $1k. I was checking synthetizers. They're well over that ball park.


Thanks Michael. That looks within my price range. :thumbsup: As for noise I had 2 x triple decks 130amp Tubes Marshalls in my bedroom as a teen. I'd be an hypocrit if I made my daughter wear headphones ;)



Yeah Roland/Yamaha is the real deal. Just checked the pricelist though. :eyepop: Gonna have to sell some scopes. :lol:

Thanks mate for all the feedback. I've checked one on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260591313027&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en) going for the $900.00 ball park. Is that similar to what you recommend?

Omaroo
21-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Marc - is your daughter ever going to be too far away from a computer? Why not consider a good 61-key MIDI surface and a decent software synth? That way she can record and never be restricted by hardware-bound features.

Something like this: http://bavasmusic.com.au/store/behringer-umx610-p-4522.html?products_name=BEHRINGER%2 0UMX610#location1

At the moment from Bavas - $220 plus your soft synth.

multiweb
21-07-2011, 10:30 AM
Thanks Chris - I hadn't thought about it this way. She does need a new laptop for school work as well so I might hit two birds with one stone. Food for thoughts - thanks. :thumbsup:

Poita
21-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Yes that is the model, though if you can get out to Bravas Music, you can buy it on ebay and pick it up for $889, which is the best price I've seen
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270747411978&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

You can connect it to a computer and use it as a full Synth that way, but even without a computer the 330 can record your daughter's performances to its built in SD card, and it can provide accompaniment when she plays using its built in instruments. It also has a metronome built in, enough polyphony to never be a problem, ability to split the keyboard into Duet mode so that a tutor and student can play at the same time, and a raft of other features that make it perfect for learning, but advanced enough that she would never outgrow it, as I said I use it for gigs as my goto keyboard.

There is some great software available too, as it has midi functionality.

The most important part is the fully weighted hammer keyboard action if she is learning to play, most midi controller keyboards don't have the real piano feel, and she will have to 'un-learn' a lot to transition to real piano.
The Casio on ebay feels very much like the Steinway I have as my main piano, very similar feel. (Anything without a fully weighted, graded hammer action is a waste of time for learning to play really.)

Good luck with the purchase and with the lessons! There is some great free software available too that can help with lessons at home to reinforce what she learns at school.

kustard
21-07-2011, 03:21 PM
I was going to suggest this as often a MIDI keyboard takes up less room that a full blown keyboard. Plus if you have iMac's in your home, GarageBand is a great starting point (I've used it with my Korg Triton a few times when mucking about).

Marc, my daughter uses my Korg Triton which is probably a bit too advanced but it does have semi-weighted keys (good for getting finger strength up if you don't have a full blown piano) and will last her a lot longer than some of the more cheaper (read < $200) types from Kmart. Try and find one that has nice strong keys, ones that are too light and plasticy can often make fingers lazy.

multiweb
21-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Thanks guys. I'm off to the music shop in Liverpool this Saturday to test a couple. Will keep in mind the hammer action and how the keys feel. Thanks for all the tips. :thumbsup:

Omaroo
21-07-2011, 03:59 PM
Agreed Simon. Mac, 61-key semi-weighted k/b and GarageBand. Unbeatable. I used GBand for ages, but have moved on to Logic 9 Pro and would still recommend GBand for anyone who wants to have TONS of fun learning with the iTunes-delivered piano or guitar tutorials.

Bassnut
21-07-2011, 05:40 PM
Geez, I hope you mean watts :P..... No I dont, 130amp tubes sounds insane :D.

And I hope you still have that rig, would be cool jamming with the little lady plugged into that lot :thumbsup:.

multiweb
21-07-2011, 07:30 PM
Sorry watts, yeah. My two heads didn't go up to 11 though ;)
But let's say from 8 onwards you didn't need any overdrive or distortion effects in the rack :lol:

Nope - was in storage but my mum sold it all with my Kramer guitar. :sadeyes:

Poita
22-07-2011, 03:46 PM
The two problems with a midi only keyboard and garage band is that you *have* to have the computer powered up, connected to the keyboard, software running etc. every time you want to play. With a proper electric piano you flick the switch and start playing. The 2nd problem is as I mentioned that the kids we have that learn on keyboards struggle with playing a real piano, muscle memory is such a big part, and once they get past 'learning the notes' they struggle with dynamics badly, as they can't practice properly at home.

Poita
22-07-2011, 04:03 PM
I agree though that garage band is truly awesome, and the new version has lessons as well that are very good. The casio has USB midi so will also work with garage band. It is loads of fun.

Doomsayer
22-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Hi Marc
I would recomend the Roland Juno Di synth - you should be able to get it for under $1000. It has only basic sound editing, but has 100s of excellent synth sounds and reproductions of pianos, organs, orchestral, rock and jazz instruments and percussion. Has some great interactive features and a good built in sequencer. It is also compact and lightweight. Probably mopre of a synth workstation.

I still use original 1980s analogue synths for my live gigs (tragic) and have many classic analogue synths and a few 1980/1990s digital samplers still in operation too. I also have a fully digital studio with many types of digital synths and instruments - some amazing software reproductions of classic analog synths out there such as Arp and Moog. Laptop based live work can be great - many friends of mine do this - but I've also witnessed many live meltdowns with both PC & Mac lappie setups - painful.
guy

Omaroo
22-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Wow Guy! I didn't realise that you're into analog synths! We have LOTS to talk about other than imaging and cameras then :) I guess that's you connection to both Zane and Mark S.

Here's today's purchase for my own (still small) studio:

kustard
22-07-2011, 04:55 PM
I'm jealous Chris... You know, not to hijack the thread but I always wanted to get myself a Fairlight CMI (Series III) purely just to noodle about on it (no musical talent really but one likes to dream *grin*)... I could settle for the iPad version I suppose but it's not really the same.

Omaroo
22-07-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm a Fairlight CMI fan from way, way back. Australian nous - good and proper.

iPad? The best two synths I've tried ar Korg's "iMS-20", the iPad version of their legendary MS-20 analog, and NLog Pro. Both utterly brilliant - and fully coreMIDI capable so they'll talk to a keyboard without issue I use the camera connection kit and an M_Audio "MidiSport UNO" USB-MIDI interface. :thumbsup:

Poita
22-07-2011, 05:07 PM
We probably should start a new thread about analogue synths, I have quite a few and love them. I even dig out the old DX7 for some gigs. Absolutely wouldn't recommend any synths for kids to learn on, but once they *can* play there is a world of fun, shame so many old keyboards are still so expensive though.

kustard
22-07-2011, 05:11 PM
Yeah, have a search for "Fairlight", they have two versions, the pro version features a fully functioning R Sequencer. I'll check the others out right now :)

Doomsayer
22-07-2011, 05:19 PM
Ah yes. The Doepfer synths are a great buy for the money - an A100 is on my longer term shopping list. One of my favourites is an original Mini Korg synth - Korgs first synth - super simple controls but amazingly fat sounds - still sounds fantastic

Omaroo
22-07-2011, 05:23 PM
Yep - a proper Page R. Cool, eh!

I bought the Pro version the day it came out... :)

Sorry for screwing up your thread Marc - but it's all nice, and non-political! :) Off to the new synth thread.

Omaroo
22-07-2011, 05:34 PM
I was talking to Laurie Beddulph today about an A-100 in my near future... and maybe a couple of Dark Energys in the meantime.

Bassnut
22-07-2011, 07:13 PM
The memorys !. I have an old Roland JX3p, an analog synth with midi!.

And the months I spent building a full Maplin 5600 in the 70s, some 80 knobs and a huge patch panel .The all time classic DIY synth.

marki
22-07-2011, 07:34 PM
So Marc, can we expect a bit of this :P:D:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDfmn_TMkI

irwjager
22-07-2011, 08:03 PM
Amazing... Seems like the love for astronomy and synths go hand-in-hand? Thought I was the only closet (digital) synth nut! :lol:

Yamaha CS-01 (analog), PSR510, CS1x, QY70, SW60XG, SW1000XG, DJX, CS6r and EX5r
Casio FZ1, SK1 (2x)
Kawai K1m, Suzuki SX500
Akai S950 (2x)
Keytec CTS-1000g
Korg Z1

Had to let go of most of these when I started moving around too much, now a proud owner of a Korg M3 to scratch the occasional itch though :P

On-topic; Marc, IMHO, you can't really go wrong with anything second hand Yamaha, Roland or Korg post 2000s or even very late 90s. By then they had the sounds down pat and you'll be able to get some very expressive synths and/or pianos for peanuts. By now, gear from that era hold its value quite well too, so if it doesn't work out, you'll probably be able to get the same price you paid for it.

Things have come a long way in soft-synth land (I've coded some in my time), but I still don't like them for live noodling. Sometimes they can be laggy depending on your hardware and you'll want to make it easy for daughter to just 'turn it on' and play without hassle.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

Omaroo
22-07-2011, 09:29 PM
Also Simon - Grab the Mac version of NLog. It's phenomenal.

multiweb
25-07-2011, 07:42 PM
I picked up the UMX610 today. Took a little while to get the 64bit drivers MIDI and USB but it worked in the end. My daughter loved it. I should have been working and she should have been doing her homework this arvo. :P But what the hell. It's really fun to use. I'm still downloading sound libraries and looking into the Kore player and maybe cubase 6 down the road.

Omaroo
25-07-2011, 07:50 PM
Excellent Marc. Good choice. I'm picking one up as well next week to add to my M-Audio Axiom as a second K/B in my chain.

You're running it on GarageBand? :thumbsup:

multiweb
25-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Not really. Right now just making a lot of noise before my wife gets back home from work. :)

multiweb
25-07-2011, 08:36 PM
Ca plane pour moi! Will have to look it up now. :lol:

multiweb
26-07-2011, 08:17 AM
:doh:Just realised that's the name of a software on a MAC :lol: No I run it on a Win64 bit HP laptop.

Omaroo
26-07-2011, 09:38 AM
I thought you said that your son had a Mac in the OSX Lion thread - that's why I mentioned it.

multiweb
26-07-2011, 10:01 AM
Yes he does. A Macbook Pro. He runs Guitar Pro on it and has all his amps plugged into it. It's his toy though. Fat chance his little sister will have access to it. No girl zone. :)