R Arae Eclipsing Variable star comparison charts?

[orestis]

Hi everyone:hi:,

I have just recieved my SRP( Student research project(Experiment)) for science and am wanting to observe this variable star to confirm its variability.

Though I can't find any comparison charts anywhere on the net:help:.I have a 12'' dob with 50mm finderscope.

I was thinking either to use the dob or the finderscope.The variable star is in the 6-7 magnitude range and can be easily seen through the finder.

Do any of you guys know were I can find some comparison charts?

Thanks in advance
cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

http://www.aavso.org/vsp

You should have gone here first up:)

I'd also join the AAVSO too....you'll get invaluable advice and experience from the other members.

You will need to register at the VSX index if you wish to do more than just browse the database and download maps.

[renormalised]

Here's what you'll get...

[orestis]

I went to that site but i typed in R arae and it didn't come up with anything.

Anyways,it doesn't show the Magnitudes on the stars,which I need.

Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

Leave the "e" out on the end of the name.

[Rob_K]

Yep, type in R ARA. To get some mags with VSP, change the FIELD OF VIEW box to 420 (7-deg). Also, change MAGNITUDE LIMIT to 10 so you don't get too many stars showing, and select the YES option for lines to magnitude labels. This will bring up some comp stars - not great for R Ara for visual observing (OK for photometry) - R Ara varies from mag 6.17 to 7.12 - but it looks like all you've got from AAVSO. I did run it out to 15-deg for no benefit. Older RASNZ charts may have a much better range of comp stars but I'm not sure how you get them. I'll look into it.

Joining AAVSO costs money, but you can register as an AAVSO observer for free, and get most of the benefits. You get a 3-digit observer code. Mine is KBJ.

Good luck Orestis! Keep us informed of your progress. :thumbsup:

Cheers -

[Robh]

Orestis,

R Arae itself is an algol-type eclipsing binary (mag 6.17 to 7.32).
It is also a component of the close visual binary star (HJ 4866AB), its companion being mag 7.8 about 3.3 arcseconds away.
See here ...
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1991Ap%26SS.180..233N

I'm guessing that observations of light variability will be complicated by the close visual star i.e. a composite of both stars.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks guys,will keep you updated.



Hi Rob,

I posted a while back asking if i could do an experiment like this and you gave me very helpfull advice ,you said to confirm historic evidence of a star being variable,so that is what i am going to try to do.

I though that the companian mighty be a problem but then thought that if the companian is of fixed brightness it wouldn't hinder the results.

Right or wrong?

I haven't found any observations of this star by amatuers,and don't know how hard it will be,though i confirmed yesterday through a gap in the clouds that i can see it through my 50mm finderscope.I don't have any good binoculars.

Thanks in advance
Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

Having the visual companion so close might make it a little difficult to distinguish the variability visually, but it's a pity you don't have a CCD and some UBVRI filters for it. It would be so simple to generate some light curves for the star and having the close companion (so long as it wasn't variable itself) would be a bonus as you would have a good reference star close by with which to compare to any changes in brightness of the variable. It's always good to have at least 2 comparison stars and the more you can have the better your results will turn out. 4 to 6 is usually the optimum number of comparison stars.

[orestis]

Thanks,

If this doens't work out does anyone have any other eclipsing binary star suggestions for evening observations.

Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Orestis,

It's not crucial that the experiment "works" exactly to expectation. That's science! You construct your aim, experimental method and gather results. Then analyse and draw your conclusions. If everything does not go to plan e.g. as compared to historical values , you put forward possible reasons for deviation or the inability to reproduce results e.g. equipment used, not enough variation in magnitude or the closeness of the companion to R.

I calculate that visual observations of the composite star (R & companion mag 7.8) should vary from about mag 6 to 6.8 based on the 6.2 to 7.3 for R Arae itself. In comparing historical values you should factor this in.

Here is a table to help you with the composite magnitudes ...
R + companion at 3.3" ---> composite magnitude of the two
6.2, 7.8, 6
6.5, 7.8, 6.2
6.7, 7.8, 6.4
6.9, 7.8, 6.5
7.1, 7.8, 6.6
7.3, 7.8, 6.8

Regards, Rob

[renormalised]

If you want to look for another EA type variable, goto this catalogue and open up the table.dat files....there's a heap to choose from.

http://vizier.cfa.harvard.edu/viz-bin/ftp-index?J/A+A/417/263

[renormalised]

And as Rob said, don't worry if your research doesn't turn out how you expect it...most of the time it never does. There'll always be little (or big) things crop up which throw a curve ball in your results.

[Rob_K]

I'm a bit lost here about worrying about the influence of the companion. Isn't the objective of observing an eclipsing binary the eclipse itself? If Orestis just wanted a variable star, he could pick any number that aren't binaries.

Outside eclipse, the observed magnitude is the net contribution of both stars, while the deep eclipse is when the dim companion eclipses the brighter companion, and there can be a secondary shallower eclipse where the brighter eclipses the dimmer.

WX Sgr is a nice example in our mid evening skies at the moment, and shows both. Mightn't be ideal for your purposes Orestis, with a period of 51.1 hours and an eclipse lasting 7.3 hours from start to finish. It's not like you'd see it all in one night. Bit dimmer than R Arae too, and similar problem with comp stars. Better magnitude range in AAVSO's VSP if you chart wide, but again you have to go outside the telescopic FOV, very difficult for visual estimates.

WX Sgr light curve from ASAS data here:
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww271/Rob_Kau/asas_plot_phased.gif

Cheers -

[Rob_K]

Anyway Orestis, you might be able to find a better one than WX Sgr. The eclipses can be quite stunning - here's an animation I did a year ago of WX Sgr 'normally', in eclipse, and back to 'normal'. Look for a star left of centre.

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww271/Rob_Kau/WXSgranim2-13June10.gif

Good luck!

Cheers -

[renormalised]

The companion to R is very close and trying to do a visual estimation of the variability will be a lot harder. In the system there's the EA binary, R Ara, and then a close by visual companion (3.3") only a shade dimmer than R itself. It's that close by companion which throws in the extra spanner, for visual observations.

Eclipses in binary systems only occur if the orbital inclination is favourable from our perspective. In EA systems, most only show partial secondaries at best and to detect some of them you need fairly sensitive instruments.

[orestis]

Awesome animation Rob_K:thumbsup:,

Thanks guys for all you helpfull advice,I was only thinking of doing an Eclipsing binary because i'm absolutely fascinated by them.I could just do a Cepheid instead if i can't find a EB.

I'll get a good one and let you guys know how i go.

Thanks
Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Orestis,

If you are keen on an eclipsing binary, easier to observe than R Arae is the beta Lyrae eclipsing binary V1010 Ophiuchi, magnitude 6.1 to 7.0, period 0.6614 days (SIMBAD). It conveniently lies about midway between a magnitude 6.0 star (48 arcminutes away) and 7.1 star (57 arcminutes away), which is close to the range of variability of V1010. There is also a magnitude 6.4 and 6.6 star not too far away. Also, Ophiuchus will be in the evening sky for many months now.
See chart ...
http://www.aavso.org/tmp3/d23346.png (http://www.aavso.org/tmp3/d25517.png)

You might also like to read this ...
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=F1E9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=observation+of+V1010+ophiuchi&source=bl&ots=I3zQTuFZY_&sig=UD78PL9l8CCKYJ9PQ7YWiU4zQfA&hl=en&ei=5svqTaHxEZSiuQOF_sDPDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=observation%20of%20V1010%20ophiuc hi&f=false

If you find something more appropriate, that's fine.

Regards, Rob

[Rob_K]

Looks a good one Rob, well found! :thumbsup: Fast, and the secondary minimum is fairly deep and should be observable for Orestis.

Cheers -

[orestis]

Thanks RObh for the suggestion:thumbsup:,

It looks like a great star to do with the comparison stars being close.

Though the period is half a day and I don't know if this will be a problem,how many observations should i make in a night.I have printed off charts for it.

I tried last night,I found R arae but the comparison stars were in a very diffcult postion to compare it to the other comparison stars.

I was going to try for V1010 Oph but it clouded up before it rose enough.

I'll try as soon as i can,weather permitting.

Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[orestis]

Hi everyone,

I have just made my first estimate of V1010 oph of 6.1 magnitude i voided it very slightlty fainter than th 6 mag comp star.

This star has a very low perod of .6 days when should i make the next obs.It was 7-06 pm aest when i made the estimate,i still have the scope outside when should i make the next estimate.

Cheers
Orestis:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

With a star of such a short period, you should make an observation every hour over the time you're out doing observations. You want to get as many points of data as you can because what you're trying to do is catch the beginning, middle and end phases of the eclipse. Having all those points will also help to produce a nice curve as well. You will then be able to accurately determine the length of the eclipse and other characteristics of the system.

[Robh]

Hi Orestis,

Can you do a measurement at 11 pm?
If so, what was it?

Regards, Rob

[renormalised]

Might be able to catch some change (and what direction) with that, but it's not ideal. It will be interesting to see what the result is if he can take the measurement.

[Robh]

Hi Carl,

Your idea of hourly measurements was a good one. I was hoping Orestis could get the measure at 11pm as well. If not, he can "catch up" in the next few days. I will suggest times.

Regards, Rob

[renormalised]

The best way of keeping tabs on stars like this is to plan a few days before, an observing run over at least two nights. That'll give you a good spread so far as the time is concerned plus a little leeway if you miss a measurement or two for various reasons. If he can repeat the run a few days later, then he can compare and contrast the results and get a good handle on the variability of the system.

Ideally, he should plan his run around the given ephemeris for the system. That way he can compare his results with the known characteristics of the system.

This would be an ideal system to generate a photometric based set of observations for a project. You could really tie down the period of the system, the length of the eclipse, the orbital elements etc. Pity he doesn't have a CCD camera. Even a mono DSI would be OK for the job.

[orestis]

thanks guys for the advice:thumbsup:,

I only took 2 obs one at 7-06 of 6.1 mag and one at 8-06 at 6.1 mag,i thought hourly obs would be ideal.I did not notice any change.I packed up early because i had school the next day,but maybe i can stay up longer somehow.

But determining .1 differences is very difficult using just my eye,I will try again soon.It is well placed for comparison and i voided it very much the same as the mag 6 star.

I wil try on the weekend to try a all nighter.

cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Rob_K]

Bit late, but AAVSO have just released their eclipsing binary ephemeris for 2011. V1010 Oph is on p7 in the June section.
http://www.aavso.org/sites/default/files/publications/EBephemerides/eb2011.pdf

Cheers -

[orestis]

:thumbsup:thanks Rob_k,

From my interpretation of the table on the 26/27 of this month at 13 hours Ut or 23 hours AEST the star will be in mid eclipse,the duration of primary eclipse is 4 hours.So i should observe 2 hours before and 2 hours after 11 pm to get a light curve.It doesn't say anything about secondary eclipse.

This is made for northern latitudes will it make a difference down under?

It only shows mid eclipse for three days of the month why is that?

Thanks in advance and i will try my best to observe this star.
cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Hi Orestis,

They don't list mid-eclipses for Americas daytime hours. You'll notice all the UT times are 0 to 12.
For the 11-12th Jun, the time for mid-eclipse is 3 UT.
If you were in New York, approx. longititude -74 degrees or 5 hours west of Greenwich (15 degrees = 1hour), the time would be about 3-5=-2 or 10pm 11th Jun.
In Sydney, 10 hours east of Greenwich, 3 UT=3+10=13 or 1pm 12th Jun i.e. during daytime.

Now for V1010, the period is about 16 hours (closer to 15.87 hours).
From 11-12th Jun, add 16 gives 19 UT. Or 19-5=14 or 2pm 12th Jun NY time. Daytime for them.
This is however 19+10=29 or 5am 13th Jun Sydney time.

Now add another 16 hours.
19 UT+16=35 or 11 UT, given as 10.5 or 10:30 UT in the table for 12-13th Jun.

In other words, daytime mid-eclipses for America are left out. These are the ones we need for Australia. You can estimate them by adding approx. 16 hours to the UT times.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks Rob,

I am finding this very difficult to test.I was out yeterday with the 50mm finderscope trying to estimate in sub zero temps at 1 am and had noticed little change if none at all.

I estimated it at 6.4 mag though i don't know if that was wishfull thinking.

I need to find a star with a higher period to determine change.

I don't understand the ephemeris.

Thanks anyways
cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Hi Orestis,

You don't need to do an all night vigil. You just need to sample sections around A, B, C, D (see diagram) of highest and lowest magnitudes at selected times over a number of days to confirm the cycle.

Attached are the phases for the next few days based on the table Rob K referred you to. I've adapted it for Australian EST time. The reason you've not detected much change so far is that you've been reading the higher magnitudes around the centre of each cycle.

If I've interpreted everything correctly, there should be a primary eclipse (minimum magnitude) at 9:30 tonight. Check it out (weather permitting).

Regards, Rob

[renormalised]

That looks alright, Rob. If he takes 5 or 6 readings around each of A-D, he should get a good idea of the curve and be able to construct one for himself. He could also sample for E at some times and that should allow him to fill in the gaps.

I don't know how useful it'll be to him...he might need CCD input...but if he goes here:

http://phoebe.fiz.uni-lj.si/?q=node

He can download software to help him plot the lightcurve.

Although, you can also do that in Excel, though not as accurately.

[orestis]

Thanks guys:thumbsup:,

I didn't get to try last night but will try as soon as i can this coming weekend.(weather permitting ofcourse).

Was the 6.4 mag reading i got at 1 am on 9/6/11 maybe the secondary eclipsing the primary.

This sounds pretty good,i'll give it a try and tell you guys how i go.

Thanks for all the help
Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[orestis]

The weather forecast for this weekend isn't looking to good,but I'll try my best to get some obs.

Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Hi all,

I managed to do some readings of my own between 6:30pm and 11:30pm last night and confirmed the minimum magnitude around 9:30pm. It was actually quite dramatic to see the change over so short a period of time.

Regards, Rob.

[renormalised]

Rob, you would've got a nice partial curve out of that. Did you plot the data at all??

[Robh]

Hi Carl,

I noted the approximate magnitudes visually roughly every hour and did a rough sketch.
I'll leave the nice graphs to Orestis!

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Hi guys awesome stuff Robh,

Did you observe the main eclipse on the 9/6/11 Or the same one I observed on the 10th ?

On the 10/6 and 11/6 I observed V1010 OPH and saw a very nice change in brightness but for the secondary eclipsing the primary,it was awesome,I couldn't believe how quickly this star changes.I tried to get obs around B C D and E.Though it was cloudy during E and at 6am when i went out it was too bright to see.

Heres my data from the obs session all in AEST(sorry i will change it later to UT)-

6.20 pm- 6.2 m(about one hour off B too bright during 5.30)
9.06 pm- 6.4 m(Half hour off C)
2.45 am- 6.2 m( about one hour off D because of clouds)
3.30 am-6.5 m(Half way between D and E)

At the beginning(6.20)I think that the primary star had already started to be eclipsed by the secondary component and at 9.06 was pretty much in mid eclipse then it rose back up again at 2.45 though at 6.2 I think it had already started to be eclipsed by the primary component and then at 3.30 it was at 6.5 which is lower than the 6.4 dip but then i didn't get a measurement after that becuase of clouds unfortunately.

And I am lucky I got the measurements I got because I stayed up all night checking the sky for gaps of which I found some luckily.

All these observations were made from my balcony using a 8X50 Finderscope.Apart from all the clouds the conditions were great and the moon had set at the 2.45 am obs.

Again thanks guys for all the tremendous help and I will try shortly to observe the primary minimum.

Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

Ps-Rob If you made that chart with the light curves which I think you did ,I think your awesome and i couldn't of done this without you thanks Rob :thumbsup:.

[Robh]

Orestis,

Great work in getting those readings under cloudy conditions. Hopefully, a break in the clouds will let you catch the primary eclipse sometime soon.

My observations were around the time of the primary eclipse on Thurs 9th June. It was fortunately clear that evening.
Wait until you observe this event. It is quite dramatic.

The diagrams were done using EazyDraw on a Mac.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks Robh,

I tried to plot the data in excel and because I only got 4 readings it produces a jagged line graph instead of a nice curve.:shrug:.

Rob,did your estimates change every hour you observed it and if it did what instumentation were you using?

Thanks
Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:

[Robh]

Orestis,

You will need more than 4 points.
Initially, I would just plot whatever you get on a grid on paper. You can add extra points at the corresponding phase times from different nights to confirm the cycle. You are really just trying to confirm the cycle not construct the whole thing from scratch.

My estimates were just visual and they did change every hour around the primary eclipse time.

Regards, Rob

[renormalised]

No, 4 points nowhere near enough. Try to get as many points as you can. In a night, you should get at least 6-10 points. But that means pulling an all-nighter. However, you can get some idea if you do what Rob said. Take a number of points each night, for consecutive nights. Try to get some both at minimum and maximum light. That way, you get points at the top and bottom of your lightcurve and you can then extrapolate a curve from these. Don't forget to get points at either side of the eclipse as well. Excel isn't the best for extrapolating curves with and the less points you have the more jagged and wonky your curve will look.

[orestis]

Thanks guys,

I have plotted the points I have now corresponding to the phase times.Time is the x axis with 0 hours to 16 hours written and the the y axis is the mags with 6.1 up the top to 7.1 down the bottom.

So far I have 6 points constructing a nice secondary eclipse dip but not a primary yet.I have 6.1 at 4 hours a 6.2 and 6.3 inbetween that and a 6.4 at 8 hours and then 6.2 at approx 12 hours maybe 13.then a 6.5 at 14 hours.

So if i get the data for the primary minimum i can produce 3/4 of the light curve.

Thanks for alll the help guys
Cheers Orestis:thumbsup:
ps-I got one reading yesterday at 6.3 mag but then clouded up before being able to observe the primary minimum.I hope to get a reading soon.

[Robh]

Orestis,

Now you're making some progress.
To help you get more points, especially around the primary eclipse, here is an extension of phase times through to next weekend.

You will notice that the phase P shifts by about 50% every 24 hours as 1.5P=1.5x16=24 hours. Also times at a particular point in a phase are very similar every 48 hours (2 days) as 3P=3x16=48 hours. Every now and then the times are shift by a half hour. This is a correction due to the phase being 15.874hours long and not exactly 16 hours.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks Rob,

Thats just what i needed as it clouded up on sunday and i didn't have more predictions,i thought of adding 16 hours to the latest minimum,but as you mentioned the period is not exactly 16 hours.

Thanks a lot Rob:thumbsup:,
I will tell you how I go soon,the weather is very bad at the moment,but hopefully it will clear over the coming week.

[orestis]

Hi Guys:hi:,

The last week was very cloudy and I didn't get any results but it cleared up yesterday for a successful observation of the primary eclipse.

I decided to do some half hour intervals and have even noticed change between such short amounts of time,I have plotted all my data corresponding to phase times and have attached it.

I can pretty much confirm this star has the charachteristics of a beta- lyrae eclipsing binary star showing a primary eclipse and secondary eclipse.

Thanks Guys for the tremoundous help:thumbsup:.
ps-sorry about the quality of the graph

[renormalised]

Very good:)

However, you now have to show the proof to your assumption that the star is a typical beta-Lyrae variable. How does the light curve that you've generated compare to the typical light curve of a beta Lyrae variable. What does the journal literature tell you and how can you fit what you've found into the accepted theory and observations.

This is what you have to write down in your report. This is how you show that you've done the work and followed it up with the study of the literature in order to prove the assumptions about the star that you've made. Preferably, a scientist would've done some previous reading on the subject before they did their observations, but you wouldn't be in a position to know or do that. I think though you'll be able to produce a very good report on what you have done:)

[orestis]

Thanks Carl:thumbsup:,

I shall provide some comparison light curves to show the similarity between them.

I did do some previous reading on this subject of EB variable stars but as you have hinted this is an incredibly complex subject and way beyond my level of understanding.

Cheers Orestis;)

[renormalised]

If you do need any help with the theory and such, let me know:)

[Robh]

Hi Orestis,

Some great visual observations there. Well done!

Carl has offered some good advice.
You seem to be on the right track in your statement i.e. your observations do not prove it is a beta-Lyrae eclipsing binary but they can confirm it is an eclipsing binary with a short period, a characteristic of a beta-Lyrae eclipsing binary.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks Robh:thumbsup:,

There are 2 charachteristics that this star shares with a beta-lyrae EB star that I can confirm that is that it has short period and each star periodically eclipses one another.

Also from the data I have gathered can i assume that one star is bigger than the other to produce different sized minimums.But i don't know that each star is the same brightness so i think i can't assume there different sizes.right?

Thanks guys:thumbsup:
cheers Orestis:D

[renormalised]

The are several ways you can tell which star is the bigger and/or brighter of the two, but most are beyond the scope of your study. The main one is using spectroscopy to look at the spectral lines and their intensity. You can tell from this whether the star is a MS, giant or supergiant (therefore how bright it is), what spectral class it is and even how rapid the orbit of the two stars is. You can then use stellar theory to determine the size of each star.

You can also identify the EB type from the shape and timing of the light curve. beta-Lyrae variables have a rather gradual slip into the eclipse cycle on both the secondary and the primary eclipse as one (or both) of the star is extended and it's hard to pin down where the eclipse starts. Algol type EB's have a relatively easy to define eclipse start as both stars have distinct stellar limb boundaries....the timing is reasonably sharp.

[renormalised]

If you goto here...

http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?submit=display&bibdisplay=refsum&bibyear1=2000&bibyear2=%24currentYear&Ident=%403462534&Name=V*+R+Ara#lab_bib

There are a number of papers specifically about the star which will help you with your report. You want to download them and read them. If you have any difficulties with the science, let me know and I'll explain what's being said:)

[Robh]

Orestis,

We can say one star is definitely brighter than the other. As for which is the more massive?

In the case of beta Lyrae itself the brighter star i.e. primary is less massive than the secondary.
See ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Lyrae

With V1010 Oph, the primary is larger and more massive.
See tables and diagram in this paper... http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1991AJ....101.1828C/0001831.000.html

Go figure?

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks Carl and Robh:thumbsup:,

Remember Carl I have switched to V1010 OPH as my star but no worries I found it in SIMBAD.

This is very interesting stuff,just wondering how do they determine which is the primary and secondary components?

As Robh said in the beta lyrae system the primary is bigger than the secondary.I always thought the primary star was bigger or is it determined on other basis such as luminosity or mass?

thanks in advance
Regards Orestis:)

[renormalised]

Mass, luminosity, spectral class, orbital characteristics etc etc. Depends on each system and what type of EB it is. In most cases, the primary will be the larger star. But in some, the secondary will be larger due to its advanced evolutionary stage, but it won't be as massive or not necessarily more luminous. Though in some cases it can be more luminous.

[Robh]

Orestis,

For any double star, the primary is the brighter of the two stars. The apparent brightness of the stars will depend on their luminosity and distance. Generally, for a main sequence star luminosity is proportional to mass i.e. the larger the mass the higher the luminosity and the hotter the star. However, if a double star is a chance alignment, it is possible that the secondary is inherently more massive and luminous but appears less bright because it is much further way.
In the case of binary systems, the two stars are essentially the same distance from the Earth. If they are both main sequence stars then the brighter and more luminous star should also be the most massive. However, with these extremely close binaries I guess the stars are not "normal" and involve mass transfers and accretion disks etc. Thus, in the beta Lyrae system, the more luminous primary is less massive.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Hi Everyone:hi:,

A Very Big thanks to Everyone that helped,Especially Robh(Couldn't have done this without you;)),Carl and Rob_K.

I Recieved full marks for it which I am very happy about.At our school we run the science fair which has most of the science classes experiments on display,Our whole class submitted ours and I recieved First in Show award,with $50 as a bonus( pays off one of EP'S:D).

Thanks so much for the help and I will be looking forward to doing more science for Astronomy.

Regards Orestis:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

That's great to hear that you won 1st prize at the science fair!!!. Congratulations:):) It's also great to hear that you achieved full marks for your project. Keep up the good work:):)

[Rob_K]

Congratulations Orestis, a great reward for your efforts!

Cheers -

[Robh]

Congratulations Orestis!

All your investigative work and your persistence (those late night and cold viewing sessions) has paid off, both in educational achievement and literally ($$$). It's good to see you have the opportunity to study and excel in areas of science you are obviously interested in.

Regards, Rob

[orestis]

Thanks guys:thumbsup:,

I hope I can do it again sometime soon.

Cheers Orestis:)