Lets All Pray This Happens!!!!!!

[badabing82]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/street-lights-may-be-turned-off-at-night-to-cut-costs/story-e6frg13u-1226064415152

cut the street lights off after a certain time would be GREAT!:eyepop::eyepop::eyepop:

[bojan]

I would be interested in aftermath if this happens...
Everybody is talking the main reason for street lights is public safety (not specifying which aspect of it ).
Perhaps the councils elsewhere might rethink their policies if the result of this in-voluntary experiment showed that turning off street lights didn't affect crime rate, for example...

[mr bruess]

Yeah its a good idea that council should turn off street lights to save money.Its makes life easier for us backyard astronomers.

[badabing82]

like if they turned them off after 12am i can't see how this will affect security. In areas where things are still open and people are walking the streets i can understand but in your average suburb people arn't walking the streets at that time and people break into houses in broad daylight with the people home ive got a feeling a few pesky street lights will make no difference.

[gary]

Thanks for the link to the story.

A few years back, whilst on an overnight flight from New York to San Francisco,
as I looked out the window whilst crossing the continent, the thought occurred to me
that it was amazing that Bill Gates was the richest man in the United States and not
whoever sold them all those orange street lights.

America is ablaze with street lights from coast to coast and much of that energy
is just uselessly radiating upward into space.

Meantime in Australia, astronomers at the recently renamed Australian
Astronomical Observatory (AAO) at Coonabarabran have been saying for some
years that the light pollution from Sydney, some 350km away, is already
having an impact on them.

Yet in my own street in the northern suburbs of Sydney, a quiet cul-de-sac,
I really would have to question why every street light has to be on during each night
of the week. Individual lights in many quiet streets could be assessed on a street
pole by street pole basis and a decision might then be made to fit them with
an intelligent controller that switches them off at certain off-peak times, say for
example, from 2am to 4am Monday to Thursday. For example, it might be decided that,
in some streets, 50% of street lights could be switched off at certain times.

Perhaps the same hypothetical intelligent controllers could also have an
integrated wireless remote. Council issues each household with a couple of
key fob remotes. Additional remotes could be made available for purchase for
some reasonable low fee. You decide you want to go for a walk at 3:30am on
a Monday night or are coming home from night shift, simply press your remote
and the 50% of lights that had switched off come on for several blocks and stay
on for some nominal time, say 15 minutes. If they go off and you want them back
on, simply press the key fob in your pocket again.

In any case, cars have their own headlights and for pedestrians that prefer
additional light if out between 2am and 4am, small bright LED flashlights that fit
in a pocket or bag are readily available and are probably less burdensome to carry
than say, an umbrella on a rainy night.

In many instances, some might question whether some street lights have become
the adult equivalent of children's bedside night lights, in that they don't seem to do
much to enhance safety or security - and in some cases arguably hinder it - but have
really just become a psychological comfort. With the rising cost of power and
dwindling energy resources, it is very much the time to start weaning us off them.
In some quiet streets, the 100% of people that were asleep probably wouldn't
even realize if half of the lights went off in their street for a couple of hours on
Mon to Thurs.

[Darth Wader]

The simplest solution would be to change the wattage and re-design the lights so that all light points DOWNWARD instead of every which way but loose. Also, motion sensors, much the same as the ones many of us have on our front porches, would be more than adequate and would significantly decrease the amount of power used.

The only problem is diverting government funds from "important" things ;)

[gary]

Hi Wade,

Alas, in our Sydney suburb and I suspect many other areas across the country,
the movement of nocturnal possums, who seem to use the power cables as a network of
tightropes to get from place to place, along with ground dwelling animals, such
as wallabies and the occasional stray cat, would probably keep them triggered "on" for
most of the night. :lol:

Hence the suggestion that in some locations, a wireless remote where you
need to press a button or a remote that you switch on, keep in your pocket and
which the street lights detect and switch on a few poles either side of you. In any case,
as we both know, the type of underlying technology to provide a workable
solution largely exists today.

Certainly better cut-offs and energy efficient lighting will undoubtedly be the next step.
Here in NSW, I noticed that all traffic lights were converted to using LED's in what
appeared to a relatively short time frame. Once the economics reaches the point that
suburban street lights are worth converting, it would be nice if the economics and
foresight was such that some type of intelligent controller also became part of the
retro-fit.

It is arguably contradictory that many Australians would take offense if someone
defaced an Australian flag. Yet collectively we seem so willing to completely
obliterate with light pollution the very stars of the Southern Cross on which that
flag's emblem is based.

[dugnsuz]

The old cliche about not missing what you've got till it's gone would hold true again here unfortunately.:(

[el_draco]

Now wouldn't it be interesting if this happened and there was a sudden drop in crime.... Not being ableto see the target makes it difficult to attack... :question:

[mithrandir]

They could leave most of the street lights around here off all the time. There are many street trees and they have grown to the point that little of their light illuminates anything useful.

The ones that do something useful - for the streets that are on - are not shielded, so I have four of them lighting up my back yard and all the surrounding trees.

As for the "crime prevention", less light, aimed downwards and more evenly distributed to remove bright spots and dark shadows would be more successful.

[KenNo2658]

As an extremely concerned believer in the reduction of our carbon production, (Ummm...... did I mention I tell fibs?), I firmly believe that turning off all street lighting permanently would cut our carbon footprint by enough to prevent the need for a carbon tax! If people carried their own LED lighting as required, the heavily used areas would be well lit, and those areas that didn't need lighting would be dark. As to the safety issue, those people who could provide proof that they need to travel through unsafe areas at night could be provided with permits to carry knives, guns or bazooka's as necessary to ensure their safety.

Oh, Did I mention that I live in an area that has no street lighting anyway? And that turning off the street lights in the two nearby towns would just about get rid of all our light pollution?

Not that that has any bearing on my oppinion of course!!

Ken

(OWW!! I tried to put my tounge in my cheek and bit it!!}

[Brundah1]

My 2 cents worth on sensible reduction in street lighting costs and their contribution to pollution.

It would be great to keep a watch on this experiment in Perth.

Just so happens that our wonderful council has just placed a high mounted Sodium Vapor street light on our road intersection that shines directly into two of our bedrooms - not happy Jan!

We live in a small acreage area between two conservation parks our street lighting is low level well spaced mercury vapor lights (installed c.1985). The majority of our 177 property owners are very environmentally conscious and have maintained high quality native vegetation across our connecting corridor which is now recognised by state and local government as a bio-regional corridor.

This is the only Sodium Vapor street light within our community and we have lodged a complaint with council that whilst these lights are the best for motorways and arterial roads they are not suitable for local street lights.

Yes these lights are high efficiency and emit light in one narrow band:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp

Whilst this makes it easy to use an LPS filter for astronomy, the light band is one most sensitive to the human eye, so where it shines directly on a visual observing site guess what! I support a previous comment that Sodium Vapour light is very effectively reflected off cloud and will reflect that light much further than other types of lighting.

We have external security lights with motion activation as well as central control. We have visual and IR security cameras plus signs notifies would be burglars. Our insurance company provides a small additional discount.

So I would be delighted to have street lights switched off from 0001-0500 Mon -Fri (We know vandalism increases on Fri & Sat nights).

Power companies install and control street lights (not the local council) and power companies already control off peak power via line pulses, so the technology is already present at the light pole - just a small pulse activated switch is required!

My personal view is that street lights on suburban streets have both positive and negative impacts on burglars and vandals, so switching them off in these areas will have little effect on burglaries providing residents take reasonable steps to discourage these criminals.

Time to apply pressure on councils.

David

[Darth Wader]

I hear you guys. I worry that when I tell my grandkids about the stuff I've seen in the night skies they'll think I'm telling porkies and put me in a home.;)

[Paul Haese]

Some years ago we had a talk at ASSA by the person in charge of lighting in the Adelaide council. I raised the studies conducted in Europe that suggest crime does not go down when lights are on but in fact goes up considerably. He told me point blank that he knew of the studies but the council was going with a minority study that said lights prevent crime.

It is this sort of lunacy that pervades the wider community. I have a house a south eastern town that has 50 lights but only 5 are on each night. The others have been switched off and is part of a bylaw enacted 25 years ago for the township. We don't have crime because people need to carry a torch to conduct a criminal offence. It is fully in line with what the studies show also.

Lights should be switched off as a matter of practice. Years ago in Adelaide the lights were switched off at 1 am. The crime rate was lower but I suppose it could have been because of the lower population. Only lights on major highways need be on. Whole suburbs could be switched off.

If the burning of fossil fuels is supposed to have such dire effects (last ten years the global temperature has in fact reduced by 0.7 degrees see bolt report last week) then surely turning off the lights at a designated time would reduce the burning of said fuels and would be helping everyone???

Of well preaching to the converted.

[TrevorW]

The councils got the energy cheap because production doesn't stop when people are asleep and the power untilities had to do something with it, now they are saying they'll increase charges to council by 30% and the council baulks because this will require them to increase rates which would not be popular, now councillors in a lot of cases are motivated the same as politicians by self interest

PH is right Govt policy is often influenced by verbal minority groups, suburban streetlights were turned off here after 12:00 then 1:30 and 2:00 am gradually leading up to being left on all night what a waste of energy

[jenchris]

The sodium lighting has an adverse effect when the road is wet. All road markings disappear - we'd be better off with reflective road markings and led edge lighting than overhead lights.
I've no idea why we have motorway lighting anyway - we all have headlights.

[BrisGreg]

Has anyone any first hand knowledge of any Australian Councils having or developing a light pollution policy?

I know here in Redcliffe they were talking about light reduction on the beach in Scarborough 'cause it was upsetting the turtles(??). Heaven help the poor buggars if they make it to the street. They'll have their eyes burn out!!:rolleyes: