Problems with SSAG not calibrating.

[hotspur]

Up for another 4 hours last night trying to get the SSAG going,been having issues right from the word go.

I can get it 'capturing',had it on M6 all night,on a previous night I did not have the AG on in the mount paddle,but last night it was on,I also set the AG speed for motors to 1.5,I also Set the back lash comp to an amount away from their defalt settings.

All cables checked,I followed instructions in manual,surly could not be that hard!,but all that happens is a icon pops up "could not calibrate-star did not move enough' I tried all different frame rates up to 10 sec.Used one of these at
astrofest,I notice my screen image/yellow lines do not move.Also notice the yellow cross hairs are broken lines,the one I used previously had basic lines,(not sure if this means anything).

Really a bit disappointed with my self,that I cannot get something so simply as a AG working.May be someone has had a similar issue.Surly I must not be far away from getting it working.

Thanks for any advice-Chris

[Exfso]

I gather the camera is being recognised by your operating system! I have found in the past, and I run a Losmandy G11 that if I dont start the mount up with the autoguider plugged in that I used to get calibration issues. Also have you had other cameras plugged in for guiding and if so did they work ok. I gather your mount has an exclusive guider port.

[hotspur]

Yes,its all plugged in from the start.

I am using a 200 mm guide scope,this is much shorter than the usual 500-600mm scopes used by most people on these pages using SSAG.

I had a quick chat,with two advanced astronomers today,it appears such a short focal length gives a very diluted magnification,and any movements are harder for instrument to pick up,one suggestion a barlow.

Also,its been pointed out to me,there is a setting,in the 'brain' of SSAG,that has something about focal length.Given that most here use longer focal length scopes with their SSAG,this would seldom be an issue.

The scope I am using is a small BORG 50 mm scope made to take AG's,its only the size of a finder scope.

Is anyone here using a home made 'finder guider' or similar scope.for AG-does this issue look like it could be solved with a minimum of fuss.

Thank-Chris

[TrevorW]

I've used a 60mm Stellarvue finder scope as a guide scope successfully with a OSSAg, it' not about FL it's whether you have a star bright enough for PHD to track on as far as I'm aware

[hotspur]

Yes,Trevor,but your 60 mm scope is most likely a bit longer than 200 mm,I have no issues with getting star bright enough,I am thinking the magnification is not enough for a movement to be seen by AG.

I'll hopefully talk with someone who is using the same or very similar scope as I have.There may be a conection issue but unlikely.

[tlgerdes]

Hi Chris,

If you use the "manual guide" function can you move the scope. Lets rule out a communication problem first.

Are you using the guide output from ths SSAG or from you PC.

1sec frame rate is a good start.

[hotspur]

Thank Trevor.

Yes,the cable between SSAG and my Vixen SS2K mount is starting to look like the area where the issue is.When I move manual buttons on paddle,the image that is being captured 'moves',I feel there is no issue with the SSAG or the scope.There seems to be a lack of communication going between AG and mount,I investigate further.

But nothing 'moves' when calibration is done,as I have seen on other SSAG.I feel this is only a small technical issue,not far from being solved-but keep your thoughts coming in-as I am not very experienced in these issues.:question:

Thanks Chris

(ps) the commands in SS2K to take AG are switched on

[TrevorW]

The SV finder is a 60mm f-3.75 so not much more than 200 mm, around 240mm magnifcation doesn't come into it, so try tracking on a brighter star around 2s exposures to eliminate this from the equation

[tlgerdes]

Hi Chris,

I was referring to PHD (I take it that is what your guide program is, since you were referring the Brain icon)

Under Tools-Manual Guide

This will let you send guide commands to the mount manually from within PHD. Use this to test that you can move stars around from within the app. If you cant do this, then autoguiding wont work either.

[hotspur]

Ok Trevor,I'll take a look at that and see if it works by using those manual controls you mention,I think the issue is such that it will not work,-the problem is starting to look like a connection issue between the AG and mount,could be a faulty cable,or cables not connecting into either AG or Vixen SS2K paddle,or something along those lines:question:

Thanks for your assistance Trevor.The AG to laptop works fine(yes PHD) is what it works with.I was a little worried that I'd got something wrong re PHD/AG.I'll set up tonight and have a play around.

Cheers Chris:thumbsup:

[Tandum]

Chris, the shoestring astronomy page for their gpusb product says "Vixen SkySensor2000 (must use the GPCNV-SS2K guide port converter)". I don't know what a guide port converter is or does, but the gpusb device and the ssag are normal st-4 devices so maybe you need a special cable?

Alternately, if you were to connect the PC to the mount and use the ascom driver for SS2K, it has pulse guiding built in. You wouldn't need a guide cable in that case. You connect the pc to the mount itself, select ascom as the telescope in phd and it will guide through that connection. You could also use that connection to drive the mount from most astronomy applications like the sky etc.

[edit]
Found this on shoestring:
A Converter for the Vixen SkySensor2000

Although the guide port on an SS2K handcontroller looks like an ST-4 port, it uses a different pinout. Now you can purchase the GPCNV-SS2K converter and quickly and easily connect a GPUSB or GPINT-PT Autoguider Port Interface Adapter to your SkySensor2000.

[hotspur]

Thanks Robin and Trevor,

The manual guide test did not move the scope.Robin-Geoff Johnston in Capalaba made the cable,he has a SS2K and is an instrument technician so is very experienced in wiring,electronics etc.So I will have a talk with him and mention your post.

But its good to see where the problem area is-The SSAG is just not talking to the mount.I'll also look at your suggestion of connecting laptop to mount,I know Geoff did have his SS2K connected to it and he was using 'night sky' program.

SO thanks to all who have helped on this thread,it appears just a matter of going through the problem area,which has been identified.

Chris

[Geoff45]

There are two ways of wiring the flat cable that connects the AG to the mount--"straight through" or "crossover". Both are in common use.
Put the two end clips together, front-to-front with the tab clips both up or both down. Check the colours of the wires in the tabs. If they line up colour for colour, it is the wrong type of cable for the SSAG. If they are in reverse order, the cable is the correct one.
Geoff

[hotspur]

Thanks Geoff,I'll check on that.

I have another replacement cable arriving tomorrow.
So I test again,if it still does not work the problem may
be in the SS2K,or its female plug on the paddle.Will go through
all the areas again.But if eventually I cannot get guiding going
there may be a Borg 50 mm guidescope for sale in a couple of months.
But I hope not

Thanks for all the help.Chris

[MattH]

Chris,

Edit: I have just realized that Robin had already mentioned the Shoestring adapter. Anyway, I will leave my post

As far as I can remember correctly, SS2K has a completely different pin layout than the standard ST-4. I have seen some discussions, I think on Cloudy Nights, about it. There is something tricky about that wiring, otherwise Shoestring Astronomy wouldn't sell the guide port converter:
http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/gpcnv_ss2k.htm

I use Borg 50mm and Orion SSAG with Vixen SXW and it works under light polluted sky in my place (Waitara, NSW). But Vixen SXW's pin layout is compatible with ST-4. Well almost, becaus RA+ is mapped to RA-, Dec+ is mapped to Dec-, and so on but software can handle it.

Regards,
Matt

[hotspur]

Thanks Matt.

Geoff Johnston is sending me his cable that works in his GP SS2K orion SSAG,so know it works,will know for sure once I plug it into mine if its a cble issue.

There may be a dry solder joint behind the female plug on the SS2K,Geoff will be able to pull it all apart and inspect and fix,as he is an instrument technician in a scientific lab,so really lucky I know him-if there is a problem-he will be able to fix it.

[hotspur]

Positive news

I received another cable in mail today,at first nothing much happened,I checked settings in SS2K and made sure the AG speed was on,I switched the speed up to 5.5.so as to hear noise if it worked.

I went into manual control in PHD and got it moving!I could hear the little shunting noises,that I had never heard befor,PHD was talking to mount!I turned it all off and checked again,it worked.

The strange thing is when I plugged the cable I was using last week in,it worked too:question:

All of this done this morning,so I could not see anything (its raining again)

One question-when using manual control,and say you want it to move east,do you keep tapping east icon a few times to get it lined up on what you want,or just tap it once to make it start moving.(not sure how to stop it if that's the case),From my limited knowledge I imagine you tap it a few times to line up.As I did in this trial.

But it does appear it was only a cable connection issues,not sure why I had no communication going on with the first cable,maybe there was some dust on points in SS2K and by changing cables a few time rubbed it off.

But its a relief to have it talking to each other,(it will be now cloudy for two weeks)

Cheers Chris

[Terry B]

Good to here that you can get the guider to talk to the ss2000. I made a cable when I had a ss2000. It wasn't hard to make but the pinout is completely different to the ST4 standard.

[hotspur]

The chap that made the cables,knew about the pin lay out (he has a SSAG and SS2K too) which helped a lot!.

It appears my SS2K unit may have had some dirt or small build up on the pins of the female part of the plug inside,not really sure.

One chap said all along it would be a minor cable connection issue,It appears he was right,as I can seem to get it all talking to one another now.

Hope to do a guide star test tonight.Chris

[hotspur]

Thanks for everyone who help here.

Finally,got out under the stars at 10 am last night,to do some basic testing,after the first attempt,where the guide star went off the page.
And a few minor speed adjustments.It all started to fall into place and go green.

I even manged to stay up till the moon set,and ended up was some reasonable images of M6,M17 and M8 about four minutes each single frame.The main reason for test was to get it going and if it worked,check star trails.But these images were a bit of a bonus.

I post them soon. Chris

[DavidTrap]

Good to hear Chris.

DT