new Dob - slightly modified by the carrier

[Shiraz]

Don't you just love the transport companies in Australia. This is our third purchase in a month that has been damaged in transport - the other two were wooden garden furniture - they really had to work hard to get those to break. Denting the OTA was probably a piece of cake, although they did also manage to smash the screw knob on an eq6 counterweight that came with the Dob - that took skill.

[floyd_2]

How disappointing. It's starting to look like it's your local delivery team who's to blame. Are your packages always delivered by the same company? I hope that you had freight insurance for your new scope Ray.

Dean

[Shiraz]

Hi Dean. Different companies. The general attitude in the industry seems to be "if our guys can get it to break, it wasn't packed properly". Anyway, it was insured - strongly suggest that to anyone buying on line. Major pain though. Regards Ray

[AG Hybrid]

Bad luck, that sucks the big one.

Why is it so damn hard for a transport company to show some duty of care towards the products that make them their money. You didn't have a "fragile" sticker on it did you? Thats just asking for trouble.

[toc]

I really really don't want to know about this - I have a 12 inch SCT on the way in a few weeks :eyepop:

[renormalised]

Because the guys running them are idiots and the people working for them are knuckle dragging morons:mad2:

The law should be if they cause damage like this, then they're liable for it. That would make them sit up and take notice. Then, if they tried to raise their prices because of this, legislate against it to begin with. They set their prices in accordance with industry regulations and that's it. That's how things should be.

[asimov]

That's a shame Ray :( As I've been saying for years, the words FRAGILE, THIS WAY UP, little wine glass emblems etc etc on shipping boxes seems to give instant license to damage. One day I'm going to send a clear message by printing on a box (with a brick in it or something worthless) 'PLEASE KICK THE CRAP OUT OF ME' 'NON FRAGILE' With a pic of a broken wine glass..

Anyway, go get 'em Ray:thumbsup:

[renormalised]

Go see the company that transported your scope and if they wash their hands of it, go see the consumer affairs ombudsman and show him/her what happened. They'll get you a new scope and the company will get hauled over the coals.

By law, they must take duty of care with the goods they carry. In actual fact, they're responsible for the good they carry right up until they hand them over. What's happened is unacceptable and it's only because people let them get away with this that they keep doing it. Regardless of whether you have insurance or not, this sort of carelessness is not acceptable.

A word of advice....next time you have goods transported, ask to inspect them before you sign any consignment notes. If they're damaged, refuse to accept them and have them take them back. The costs will be at their expense and they'll end up in all sorts of trouble.

[MrB]

+50


+1

[asimov]

The concept of inspection before acceptance - Way to go:thumbsup: That'll get them back pedalling!

[Shiraz]

Hi Guys. thanks very much for all the helpful advice and concern - and Tim, I'm really sorry about the timing. The supplier has been helpful so far and has indicated that the OTA will be replaced OK under the insurance - we'll see. Adrian, John - I looked at the box - yep it has FRAGILE, DO NOT DROP etc written all over it, so it was a sitting duck.
But my view remains that this should not have happened in the first place - there is something perverse about a system in which fragile material is more likely to be damaged if it is marked as such. Will post on progress. Regards Ray

[Shiraz]

On a lighter note, just had another look (sigh) to see if anything around the mirror was damaged and realised that the darn thing is still almost perfectly collimated! Regards Ray

[DavidU]

I'm with Carl on this one.
I used to send & recieve many boxes of goods that were fragile & expensive.
ALWAYS open the box in front of the courier & inspect the goods, then sign the consignment note. Many times I have inspected goods and found damage, I just tell the courier to take it away as they damaged it.
A shame about the DOB.

[Shiraz]

Thanks Dave, Carl - interesting questions here. My wife took delivery, so there was no-one to technically inspect the gear at the time of delivery. When I got home from work, I lifted the focuser end of the OTA out of the box and balanced it on some of the foam packing while I gave it the once over. I checked the mirror assembly from the outside, looked into the OTA from the focuser end to make sure the glass was in one piece and coated OK, looked through the focuser to check the secondary etc. - hard to believe, but all looked fine and I did not see the ding, which was on the underside of the OTA and not visible from the angles I looked. I only realised that I had a problem some hours later, when I took the OTA completely out of the box to get it ready to put on the base. If I had been home when it was delivered and had done a similar inspection in front of the courier I would probably have declared it OK and then presumably the transport company would have been completely off the hook. So what is the best thing to do, particularly since damage may not be immediately obvious and it is not always possible to be present when stuff is delivered? Regards Ray

[DavidU]

Ray, read the fine print on the document. It may state what to do with damaged goods.
I would also forward a photo of the damage to the courier & telescope shop.
This is a problem between the seller & their courier.

[asimov]

It wouldn't always be possible to inspect a package sometimes. In the case of my SW 14", well it took me a good 15 mins just to get into all 3 boxes, they were taped up that well. At least another 15 mins to inspect all items. I can imagine the courier standing there waiting that long for me to finally sign the declaration....Not.

[Louwai]

I sent a non-fragile package from Bris to Melb via Australia Post.
I was a 15kg, steel bodied water dispenser.
When it arrived at the destination it was totally destroyed, with MANY loose bits floating around inside the box.
The item was a retail value of $600 & it WAS insured for the full amount.

I happened to be in Melbourne soon after so I brought the unit home with me on the plane. In Brisbane I submitted an insurance claim.
AU Post refused the claim saying that they don't provide a "fragile" service.
I went to the ombudsman. They took 3mths to investigate.

In the end the insurance claim was refused. The ombudsman found that I had used an old 2nd hand box to pack it in & was not packaged suitably.
This was determined by the OBM talking to an AU Post worker via the ph who was verbally relaying what the damaged box looked like.
I offered to take a brand new machine to the OBM office so that they could compare the packaging & so they could see that the damaged packaging was the same as the new. But they declined this offer.

This is total crap. The carton was the original SHIPPING carton of the unit as packed at the manufacturers. It was strapped & had styrofoam inside. It LOOKED 2nd had after flamin AU POst had finished with it.

AU Post were also VERY much relying on the fact that they specifically say that they do not provide a fragile service. I was adamant that my item was NOT fragile, but yet it was still destroyed.
To explain this - By my own fault, while transporting these same units on a trailer, a unit fell of onto the road while driving. (my fault, didn't tie on correctly). The unit fell from a height of approx 1.8m onto the bitumen while travelling at approx 35klm/hr going around a cnr. This unit was scratched & had a dent on the cnr where it landed on the road, but that's it. AND, the unit still worked perfectly.
So good old AU Post must have really gone to town on my item to totally destroy it.

So my comment is;
Just because your item is insured, don't expect it to be repaired or replaced. They can still refuse the insurance claim.

And most of all - DO NOT USE AUSTRALIA POST

[asimov]

Yep good old insurance companies will do anything to weedle out of a claim, including AU post insurance that I can attest to just like Bryan, my experience being over 20 yrs ago now.

Sounds like AU post have some pretty good techniques on destroying stuff Bryan, geez.

[renormalised]

If you inspect the contents of your boxes before you accept them, then they have to, regardless of whether they are slowed down at all. If they complain, that's their problem. if you just accept them and then find out later the contents are damaged, you may have no recourse to go them for damages. Doesn't matter even if it takes you 30 minutes to inspect the goods, they have to respect your wish to do so.

You could also write on the consignment note "goods accepted subject to inspection", which would allow him to go, but if they wouldn't accept that, then you could go right ahead with your inspection.

[renormalised]

If the OBM wouldn't do anything and AU thought they could get away with it, I'd have taken that to court...and that is your best option in these circumstances. However, since AU Post is government run, I would have phoned the Federal Minister responsible for AU Post and told him what happened. Then if he/she stuffed around, I'd go to the TV and papers and make it known to everyone.

You don't let these fools get away with it, otherwise they'll think they can and will do it to everyone.

[Shiraz]

Good news at last. I now have a brand new (cylindrical) OTA courtesy of Andrews (Luke in particular). Because the original was insured, they took care of dealings with the carrier and I got the replacement within 2 weeks (the carriers still managed to punch a big hole through the side of the box, but missed the OTA this time). Am pleased at the outcome, but this sort of thing really should not happen in the first place. Thanks to all who gave advice and encouragement. Regards Ray.

[asimov]

Good news for you Ray. It was just sheer luck that you ended up with the replacement damage free by the sounds. I might have to become a courier....I'm sure there's an opening for one that guarantees NO DAMAGE to any items..

[toc]

Well, my 12inch SCT arrived safe and sound - we used e-go, and it was a pretty good experience. The cardboard box was in good condition :D

[asimov]

I know I was freaking out when I saw the state of my 14" SW a few weeks ago! So many holes & every corner of every box totally crushed in. Luckily Skywatcher have factored this in & packed things very VERY well.