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Insane Climber
06-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Something just came to me and i had to write it down? I was blowing smoke rings? and watching how the ring breaks up because of the air current in the room. It just dawned on me that things would not be so random in the universe unless there was some sort of external force. Dark current? an explosion would produce perfectly circular rings, pressure variances. If it were not for external forces?

Please feel free to take the piss

i KNOW IM NUTS :)

jAS

CraigS
06-10-2010, 05:53 PM
Keep smokin' Jason.

:)

Cheers

mswhin63
06-10-2010, 06:23 PM
I was watching Planet Science recently and I ears pricked up about the discovery of background cosmic radiation back in the 60's - coined to be Echos of the Big Bang.

Maybe these echo are still swirling around containing galaxies or whatever.

Energy does have force, as used in Ion Propulsion is that is uses microwave energy (ions) to propel a space craft. So it maybe possible this is your smoke ring generator.

Hey what hell I am talking about I am only a tradey, and smoking will only kill you :)

Insane Climber
06-10-2010, 06:26 PM
Yes but why do things always fall in circles?

mswhin63
06-10-2010, 06:44 PM
Maybe because smoke has mass and the air being the energy is able to manipulate it. Smoke ring are usually formed in a particular way you blow the smoke (Yes I was a chain smoker). Maybe different conditions in a vaccum/micro gravity would create a different condition compared to blowing smoke in atmosphere.
There is also what could happen with the force of a "Black Hole" in the centre.
Cosmic radiation could be blowing in a particular direction or could be 2 or more directions containing the galaxy.

If it is worth some form attention best to experiment in some way to produce some results. Really the experiment could only be done in space as you would need low/zero gravity.

Now I am just getting out of my depth :)

Jarvamundo
06-10-2010, 09:20 PM
pls... dark energy? pfff cmon... you would make a good standard cosmologist... hahah

simple.. Vortex theory... you are forgetting the velocity of the object ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJk8ijAUCiI

ohhh ahh... preedy stuff :)... grab a friend and blow 'em' at eachother...

Insane Climber
07-10-2010, 02:11 AM
you know it is actually ok to think about these things

avandonk
09-10-2010, 09:07 PM
Just drop small drops of ink into water and you will see the same rings of turbulence. Dolphins blow air bubbles under water with the same structure. They do this for fun. I blew a smoke ring in 1962 and it floated across a still room.

If you watch very carefully all 'rings' degenerate into smaller rings.

When a star dies it can also give off rings.

Google solitons as it may give you some insight.

Bert

space oddity
10-10-2010, 06:42 PM
It is smoking that causes stars to die:P. The smoke ring is a dying gasp but not the final death rattle.

Insane Climber
18-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Ok after feeling very rejected because i am not an astrophyscist, i descided to take a photo to show what im on about. This is a cup of ribena with olive oil sprinkled on top. I used a blue reflector to provide contrast. Then provided a drip with the tap.
The oil droplets are deformed depending on where they lay on the pressure wave. And the pressure wave is not even. Shurely anything that existed before would effect the pressure wave?

CraigS
18-10-2010, 08:10 PM
Jason;

I have patiently read every post on this thread and I am still waiting for you to articulate what it is that you're trying to postulate.

I see random thoughts, ideas, and some neat photography, but I am at a total loss when it comes to filling in the blanks you leave behind.

I'm not having a go at you here. Everyone has a right to come up with ideas and you may have a great one … but it kind of falls upon oneself to use a few words/concepts to explain those ideas.

Happy to help out if you're serious, but can you give us more dialogue/text to go on ?

Avandonk has recommended some research material. Did you find it useful?
Do you have any comments on the relevance of this material ?

Cheers

Insane Climber
19-10-2010, 04:44 PM
yes i did read some stuff on solitons, yes i do know what a vortex is. Yes my written language is crap, thats why i choose to do engineering.

The heading of this section of the forum says. A place to discuss.

My very simple idea is. If the pressure wave from an explosion. or big bang. Or nuke in a vacume. or water drop?. Is not perfectly circular. Would that not show that some substance, or enegy. Or magic Genie dust. Possibly existed befor the explosion. In the path of the wave.
In my very easy to shoot water drop photo, can you not see the wave deforming because of the olive oil.
Im not saying the big bang is a water drop. I am useing these Visualisation's to try and picture what happened during the initial expansion. The cosmic microwave background shows that things were uneven.
This is not a great idea. It is an attempt at discussion.

Cheers
Jas

CraigS
20-10-2010, 09:07 AM
Jason;

No worries .. now I get ya. Thanks for adding more text.

The following information may clarify some Standard Model concepts ..

According to the Standard Cosmology Model (SCM), ‘The Big Bang’ has been postulated as an extremely rapid expansion of everything, all at once, in every direction. ‘It is an intrinsic expansion—that is, it is defined by the relative separation of parts of the early universe, and not by motion "outward" into pre-existing space. (In other words, the universe is not expanding "into" anything outside of itself).’

The explosion analogy is not the same concept as the Big Bang. An explosion moves into a pre-existing medium. It is postulated in the SC Model that, perhaps, space-time itself did not even exist prior to the Bang.

‘The small variations in the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) we see today are due to temperature differences in the environment in which the photons existed at the time of recombination’ (ie: when the universe was roughly 380,000 years old – ie: after the Big Bang). ‘The cooler regions of the CMBR are where matter was ultimately able to form, from this time onwards.
A smaller variation in the CMBR is believed to have been caused by the effect of gravitational waves caused by Inflation’. There are other theories about other minor fluctuations in today’s CMBR.

Cheers

PS: The above quotes are from various IIS and other sources mods by me.

mswhin63
20-10-2010, 01:05 PM
I kinda like that concept, I have for the last couple years acccepted of a balloon effect and the ultimate big rip to occur towards the end of the universe. Am I correct this is the SCM?

Possibly the big bang suggested came from a point where no time or space existed (possible SCM) and this suggest that the space could continue to expand without stopping as long no time or space existed at that point.

Should put a disclaimer, but what the hell!!:D

Insane Climber
20-10-2010, 01:55 PM
Yes I agree that the generally accepted theory at this time is that time and space did not exist befor the big bang. But that is a theory.
The reason i continue to think about other possibilities is because i just cannot get my head around the idea that everything came from a singularity. Probably because my brain just cannot cope with the idea of an infinity.
Now if everything just expanded from nothing, that still sounds like a rather voilent occourance, is there any other evidence of the event?

Jas

CraigS
20-10-2010, 01:58 PM
The Standard Cosmological Model (or Lambda Cold Dark Matter Model) was developed to explain the CMBR, the large scale of galaxy clusters, the distribution of the light elements and the accelerating expansion of the universe (using redshift). It is the simplest model that is in general agreement with observed phenomena. The model uses the 'FLRW metric', the 'Friedmann Equations' and the 'Cosmological Equations of State' to describe the observable universe from the inflationary stage to the present and into the future.

The ultimate fate of an expanding universe depends on the matter density ΩM and the dark energy density ΩΛ proportions of the cosmological constant. Both are terms from the Lambda CDM Standard Model.

With evidence available at the moment, it is likely that the universe will continue to expand indefinitely, resulting in the "big freeze" scenario.
However a lot of this depends on the nature of dark matter and how it interacts with gravity and dark energy. The end result may be an oscillating universe.

There are many other theories about "The End" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_universe#Theories_about_ the_end_of_universe).

Cheers

mswhin63
20-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Yes, I too am trying to get my head around infinity other than PI. It is the same for blaack holes, I am unable to get my head around the centre of a black hole having infinte mass.



I am hoping that we can find a hint of solution to this before the end of my lifetime.

CraigS
20-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Hi Jas;

You may find reading this thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=631831&highlight=SUSY#post631831) which we had a while ago, might help with understanding the concept of 'nothing" and the theories of what may have initiated the Bang.

It certainly helped me.

Cheers

Insane Climber
21-10-2010, 12:09 PM
Cheers Craig
Yes the terms Nothing and Infinity and the concept that time had a begining are certinly things i find very hard to imagine.