Ordered Argo Navis!

[barees63]

well.. after reading all the glowing recommedations here I decided to take the plunge and order the AN system for my 10" GSO DOB :jump2:

I really think this will be the way to go for a newbie like me since I can only locate 3 or 4 objects at the moment and when I have found new things (clusters, nebulae) I've had no idea what I was looking at :o

Even with planispheres, and lots of software I had the feeling it would take me years to learn to starhop effectively on my own (I'm pretty isolated out here), especially when searching for DSOs that are not readily visible to the naked eye, seems to me that AN will be like having an experienced astronomer by my side :)

Anyway, fwiw, I'll keep you informed of progress once I receive and install it..

Cheers!
Bruce

[Dennis]

Hi Bruce

The Argo Navis system seems an excellent system. I saw Gary & Mai (Wildcard Innovations) at the Queensland Astrofest where they visit each year and give a presentation on the system. I have heard nothing but rave reviews so you should not be disappointed.

Cheers

Dennis

[hogly52]

Congratulations Bruce!!:thumbsup: Great Choice:2thumbs:

It will be the next purchase for my 12" GS Dob. :) :) :)

Cheers, :drink:
Graeme

[barees63]

I think I feel more excited than is healthy for a 42 yrold :party:

[acropolite]

Bruce wrote Definately a dose of spendthrift fever..:P

[barees63]

Usually followed by a bad case of shopper's remorse :ashamed:

[hogly52]

Cured with some more retail therapy! :lol:

[[1ponders]]

Good onya Bruce. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[wavelandscott]

The Argo Navis is a "good thing" (as Martha Stewart used to say!)...

They are truly a good thing...I have really enjoyed having a useful tool like the Argo...I hope you enjoy it too!

[Robby]

Hiya Bruce,
Good to see another Kiwi here in this forum.
I use an AN, and it certainly is a good product... Enjoy!
Cheers

[barees63]

Thanks Robby, great website btw.. your images are just amazing!

[gbeal]

Heck yet another Kiwi, well done.
Both the product, and the sales staff are top notch, you will NOT regret this.

[barees63]

aargh! Customs "seized" my AN and charged me GST on it, then they charged me a fee for charging GST, then they charged me GST on the fee for charging GST :P


Not long now..:prey2:

[iceman]

lol
it'll be worth the wait!

[danielsun]

Congrats on your purchase barees63. The argo is one of the best investments you could make for your scope!!!! You will no doubt be very happy with it and it will make your viewing much more enjoyable!!! ;)

[barees63]

Finally Arrived! :prey:

I have mounted the encoders on my GSO 10", no great drama.. the instructions were slightly off (the design of the Alt encoder coupler has changed for instance and a reference to the washer on the Az bolt was misplaced so it appeared to refer to the encoder washer.. just little things), I had to file the inside of both encoder couplers slightly to remove brass from the grubscrew holes so the encoder shaft would fit easily. I was slightly concerned about the AZ pivot, with my dob I was able to leave the washer on - just, the nut is touching the encoder shaft grubscrew but not enough to prevent me tightening it, I hope this won't be a problem, I can't see how it would be?

One question, trying to decide the most convenient place to mount the AN unit itself.. any other GSO dob owners out there care to share? I'm thinking of removing the eyepiece holder from the side of the mount, moving it to the front perhaps, and mounting the AN on the side of mount (I mounted the Alt encoder on the side opposite the focuser), I figure it should be easy enough to read there as I move the OTA around? Any better suggestions? does anyone mount the controller on the OTA itself?

TIA! Bruce.

[ving]

always exciting geting stuf and hard parting with the cash :P

dave P had DSC installed on his dob... he might have clues for ya :)

[gbeal]

Bruce,
I mounted mine on a stalk, sitts next to the OTA, but actually attached to the sideboard.
On the tube is OK, until you are pointing vertical, then it gets tricky to read.

[barees63]

Did you make the stalk yourself or is it a commercial one like the "Markless"? I can see a stalk would be ideal but not wishing (domestic harmony) to spend any more money at this point, I was thinking of just mounting the bracket on the side of the mount, I would have bend my neck to read it though..

[Twokids]

I have a shelf mounted where the eyepiece holder would normally be and the Argo Navis cradle attached to it. It is on a nice angle so it is easy to read (I bought the scope from Dave47tuc and he had already installed it :) ). I always take my Eyepiece case out with me so I have never bothered to attach the Eyepiece holder (though it could go on the other side).

[rochler]

Love that nifty Dob. trolley thingie... all you need now is a motor for that & a remote control hehe... :)

[Twokids]

Thanks :) ,
Maybe one day I'll think about motorising it. Have to save some more money first. Spent way to much lately on astronomy stuff (damn addictive, expensive hobby :P ).

[rochler]

you need to save up for some premium EP's so you can add an 'mmmmmmmm' to your 'oooooohhhhh' & 'aaaaaaahhhh' ;)

[Twokids]

Yep, they are next in line, and that takes care of the mmmmm.
What sound am I left with though for if I get it motorised?

[barees63]

Thanks Jodie, the shelf looks like a nice way to go, tossing up between that and velcroing it to the OTA.. btw, that looks like a lot of wiring on your scope.. what other gadgets have you got hooked up there?

[Twokids]

Just the Argo :) . The cables going down are just for plugging the Argo Navis into an external battery. The cables looped under the shelf are just extra length.

[gbeal]

Yep, if it wasn't so agricultural looking I would post a picture!!
It is a piece of 22mm dowel, with a couple of brackets to hold it to the sideboard, and an angled flat board upon which I mounted the Argo cradle.
Kiwi inginuety of course.
Gary

[barees63]

:)

I like the idea of a stalk though so eventually I'll get around to something similar, being basically lazy I have just screwed the cradle on the side of the mount for now which means I'll have to hold the unit in one hand while moving the scope.. not a long term solution but it'll get me going.. now I just need the Techron sight-tube to arrive so I can collimate properly and she should be all go..

[gary]

Hi Bruce,

Owing to its inherent dimensions, the tolerances on the Guang Sheng are tight
in this regard and it is normal to see the nut in very, very close proximity to the
grub screw.

For an example of a mounting stalk, a commercial one can be seen here,
in this instance featuring an Argo Navis in its previous-style case.
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/scheirman1.jpg

This is the Markless DSCStalk sold by http://www.marklessastronomics.com/
up in beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[barees63]

Thanks Gary, overall I found the GSO Dob mounting kit to be very good.. easier than I expected, I'd say anyone who can wield a drill and a screwdriver can have the whole thing ready to use about 30 minutes. I can't wait to try it all out, probably later this week, too much work on tomorrow to stay up late tonight :-(

Re the stalk, I had seen that previously in your photo gallery, looks very flash with AN mounted on it!

Bruce

[barees63]

well, I took it out for a quick go last night but didn't quite get there.. I think my newbieness got in the way, I went thru the initial setup stuff (except inputing location and time), I then switched mount type to dobsonian and tried a 90degree ref/2 star align on Rigel and Sirius, got a warp factor of 0.05 (might have been negative can't remember) but when I tried to get M42 from the catalog it gave me huge numbers on both axes which would have moved the scope into an entirely different part of the sky, I then retried with Rigel and Procyon, got a warp of 0.08 but again it didn't seem to know where it was in catalog or identify modes.. I'm wondering if I incorrectly set the encoder direction since I don't really understand ra/dec :o , I was facing roughly north, moving the scope towards east gave +ve increase so I assumed Az was ok, then I'm supposed to move the Scope toward North, I took this to mean moving it vertically toward the horizon (wrong?) which resulted in decreasing numbers so I reversed the sign on the Alt axis.. I'll read it all again and give it another go but can anyone spot an obvious error from the above? Thanks! Bruce

[gary]

Hi Bruce,

The following, I hope, will be of some help.

Chances are that one or more of your encoder direction sense signs will need
reversing.

From your description, it sounds as if the encoder direction sense signs are set
for if the mount were 'flipped'. As you are aware, by construction, you can't push
the OTA on a Dob past the 90 degree vertical position in order to view objects.
However, your current encoder direction sense signs are currently configured
for such a situation.

What I recommend is this -

Keep the SETUP MOUNT type as ALT/AZ DOBSONIAN.

To start out, I strongly recommend you start by using ALT REF=090.000 AUTO ADJUST OFF.

When determining the direction senses, it is good to have some intuition as to
how lines of RA and Dec are mapped onto the sky above you. You can do this
during the daytime if you imagine where the stars roughly are.

For example, let us assume you have set the signs to some arbitrary values and
performed the FIX ALT REF step and a two star alignment. Point the scope
toward the zenith with its Alt axis now pointing East-West. Slowly push the
tube down in Alt only toward the SCP. You know that as you are pushing the scope
in that direction, Dec should be decreasing toward -90 degrees in MODE RA DEC.
If it is not, reverse the SETUP ALT STEPS sign and repeat the alignment and check again.

Once you have the Alt sign in agreement, point the scope along the meridian
near the celestial equator (Dec=0) and start to rotate in Azimuth and Alt toward the
due-East horizon.
(The celestial equator passes very close to the belt of Orion).
You know RA increases as you go toward the East (it wraps at 24:00 though). If it is
not increasing, reverse the SETUP AZ STEPS sign and repeat the alignment.

In the end, there are only four combinations of SETUP ALT STEPS and SETUP
AZ STEPS signs (++, +-, -+, --). Two of these combinations may give the correct
results in MODE RA DEC, but when you then GUIDE to an object, one of these
two combinations will be correct and the other will result in not correctly
guiding to the object. Of course, the former case is the one you are seeking.
Keep in mind that the direction you need to move the telescope in order to
make a guide number 0.0 might be opposite in direction to what the arrow indicates.
This is OK, as long as when you reach 0.0 and look through the eyepiece that
the object is within the FOV. You can later alter your preference as to
which way the arrows point in SETUP GUIDE MODE.

Once you have the direction senses correct, then start trying to use
AUTO ADJUST ON.

Email sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au if you should require further assistance.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[barees63]

Thanks Gary, fantastic support.. I should mention to anyone else reading this that there was no implied criticism in my question.. I think the AN is going to be awesome and the manual is extremely well written.. I'm just a clueless noob :ashamed:

[gbeal]

Hi Bruce,
now you can see why all us existing AN users have been so voiciferous about you getting one as well.
Service like this makes it stand out alone.

[barees63]

you bet! so far, apart from the incredibly easy hardware installation and wonderful support, the thing that really impresses me is the interface.. as an ipod user the wheel and button idea is super intuitive and so easy to use in the dark - a great design.

[Twokids]

Stupid me couldn't work out why it wouldn't direct me where it was supposed to at first (really should have read the instructions before turning it on, but I thought that I had remembered what Dave had told me to do). Then I realised that I had forgotten to set it in the vertical position first :ashamed: .

I really wasn't happy with myself.

Once you learn the steps it really is incredibly easy to use :) .
You're gonna love it.

[gary]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your kind comments.

You may be interested to learn we innovated the dial before Apple
popularized it on their iPod. ;)

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Starkler]

Next step for me is setting up TPAS. A casual read of the documentation looks complex and painful :doh:

[gary]

Hi Geoff,

Recommend you follow the extended example in the Manual in the SETUP MNT
ERRORS section.

In particular I encourage you to familiarize yourself with the sub-menus
beneath SETUP MNT ERRORS.

The same section of the Manual also contains some good background
material on telescope errors in general.

By way of analogy, consider the topic of optics for one moment. To
really characterize the performance of an optical system, such as a
mirror, a technical approach is required.

For example, one might perform a star test on a mirror and from the
diffraction patterns learn a great deal about the mirror. However, the
characteristics and performance of the mirror is best described in
technical terms. Optical practitioners might use language such as
aberration, diffraction, zonal defect, etc. to help them describe the
optical system's performance.

Through books, magazines, etc. many amateurs are now conversant with
this same language and understand the ideas.

The area of telescope pointing analysis is similar. It is a technical
area, again best described by technical language. Professional
observatories have been using such language for decades. What Wildcard
is doing is helping introduce more amateurs to the world of telescope
pointing analysis.

Therefore, for some, there will be a little learning. However, in
practice, the system is surprising easy to use. Essentially you can
characterize the pointing performance of your telescope whilst standing
in the dark and just using your thumb to operate a couple of buttons and
a dial.

We stress that users should have some pointing goal in mind. If a user
is happy with their existing pointing performance, then they can perform
the star alignment procedure just as before and simply ignore the
additional functionality of TPAS.

However, if they have more demanding requirements, they may wish to try
using TPAS to assist them.

For those who aren't really interested in the technical background, by
following the examples, one can take a "cook-book" approach.

However, for those who wish to have some deeper understanding, then by
way of the User Manual, by posts that we make on the Argo Navis User's
Group and on other forums and by additional White Papers that will
appear on our web site, we hope to share some of our own expertise.

The Argo Navis User's Group is at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[barees63]

Well, got it working last night, had to reverse Az encoder but then, as if by magic, it starting finding stuff for me! By the time I got it sorted it had got a bit foggy and the dewy but even using non-optimal alignment stars (Rigel & Betelg.) it found everything either in FOV or just a nudge out, next step is to learn a few more bright stars to use for alignment and investigate the Auto Adjust settings.. this is going to be awesome!