CPC, LX90ACF or EdgeHD?

[Lost In Space]

I'm in the market for a more serious telescope to upgrade from my old 70mm refractor. I am currently looking at the Celestron CPC 1100 XLT, Meade LX90ACF 12", or the Celestron CGEM 1100 HD Aplanatic Schmidt telescope.

I have been reading plenty of reviews of each of the scopes, but none offer examples of views through the scope, or comparisons between them.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these telescopes or any opinions about which is the better option and why?

Thanks :)

[casstony]

They're all good scopes Blake. The fork mounted versions are convenient for visual use but they're quite heavy, 65 pounds or so, which is ok only if you have no back or joint problems, or if you can wheel it out of a shed. The GEM is better for imaging, breaks down into smaller/lighter parts so it's easier to carry, but is not as convenient/simple to operate for visual use.

I'm visual only and have avoided weight/complexity by putting a C11 ota on an alt/az mount with digital setting circles (DM-6).

The Celestron HD should have the best image at the edge of the field, followed by the ACF then the CPC (due to different levels of coma correction and field curvature), but on-axis they should be the same.

[AG Hybrid]

Well, generally speaking from reviews Ive read. The CPC is brilliant for a SCT telescope. The meade is also really good, although I hear the 12" ota is rather large for the fork mounts of the lx90. A better option if you have the $$$ is the lx200, if a long lasting telescope is your aim. The CGEM 1100 HD while optically brilliant, is obesely and hidiously over priced in Australia due to the nature of the celestron distribution system in Australia.

I'd aim for a CPC 1100. In fact I am aiming for a CPC 1100.

Also, if your looking to one day expand in astro-photography, the CGEM does have a functionality advantage with its equatorial mount, not to mention the brilliant optics.

Mind you if you dont want to spend the $5000+++ for any of these scopes, and your looking for 12" of goto goodness. Check out the new orion goto dobs or hang out for the skywatcher 12" goto's

[Lost In Space]

Thanks for the fast replies :)

I am interested in one day getting into astrophotography, so I'm after a good quality scope that's with me for the long run.

With the pricing for the scopes, I was looking to buy from the US seller, Optics Planet, since the prices there including postage are a lot cheaper than buying and shipping within Australia.

What's the deal with the dovetail rails on the EdgeHD? I was looking a HEQ6 mount to begin with, but I'm not sure whether the rails will only allow the OTA to be mounted on the CGEM or the CGE Pro? :question:

[AG Hybrid]

Are you sure these guys are allowed to ship celestron gear like telescopes and mounts to Australia? Because last time I heard, Celestron were vitoing that from US distributers.:shrug:

[Lost In Space]

Oh I'm not sure. This is the first I've heard of that. I can add it to my cart and select shipping and everything fine. I'll send them an email and find out.

[casstony]

http://www.priceusa.com.au/ will buy the product for you and ship it to Oz - I haven't used them though so I don't know what the service is like. There's also 10% gst to pay.

I was told by a reputable source that Celestron prices were going to drop in Oz by up to 30%, but that hasn't happened yet. Might be worth calling an authorised dealer to see what's going on.

[chrisc]

Hi,

Celestron dealers in the USA are forbidden contractually from shipping Celestron products to addresses outside the USA, in order to protect international retailers (such as Australian stores which charge much higher prices).

To obviate this restriction, you can either get yourself a US street address for the US retailer to ship your gear to (either a friend, or one of several online services which will do this for you), or use a buy-it-for-you agent such as PriceUSA.

Be aware, however, that if you go down either path, you will have NO warranty coverage from Celestron (there is a clause in their warranty that specifically deals with this circumstance).

If you happen to physically be _in_ the USA, pop in to buy a scope, and then ship it home, as long as you can prove you were there and bought the scope in person in the USA, Celestron will honour the warranty.

There's a reasonable collection of (and variable reviews of) various address provision, repackaging, and buy-it-for-me services here:

http://www.nevershoppedout.com/mail-forwarding/


Good luck!! :-)

(I'm currently in the process of using Bongo International to acquire a C8 with FL reducer and laser from Oceanside Photo & Telescope, all for <$1,300 AUD including shipping).

Cheers,
Chris

[terrynz]

Are a complete ripoff!

Get the celeston EdgeHD then get it shipped from the USA or go treat yourself to a nice holiday and pick it up. Plenty of god re-sending agents over there.

Warranty. On the OTA, not a bit deal. If you damage it, then its covered by insurance.

FYI - I recently applied for a Celestron dealership here in NZ and the wholesale prices are HIGHER than the retail in the USA. Again complete ripoff partly due to Sheldon &Hammond being the Celestron agents for Aussie and NZ and not passing on fair prices to retailers.

I think Lee Andrews is doing good prices. Worth looking into.

[Lost In Space]

Thought it would be too good to be true :P

Ok, so it's either pay thousands more buying in Australia, or save thousands and have no warranty buying in the US. For the amount of money I save buying from the US, I could probably by a replacement and still be under the cost of the set up in Australia anyway. Definitely looking like the best option.

What sort of insurance are you talking about Terence?

Since there's no warranty, are the CGEM mounts reliable, and will they handle the 11" OTA alright? That's the only thing I'm worried about having problems with.

Thanks for the info and links! :D

[bigbod]

Sorry to hijack this thread a little but I'm considering getting an 8" Meade LX200ACF or Celestron CGEM EdgeHD.

Anyone have any recommendations/comments on which scope is preferable for visual observations and astrophotography?

I was originally considering a 10" Meade/11" Celestron, but I'm concerned that both scopes are really too heavy for me to regularly carry outside.

Thanks
Rod

[casstony]

The Edge is marginally better due to it's flatter field and cooling vents, but only if it's not much more expensive than the ACF.

If you went for a GEM, the 10" or 11" ota's weigh about 30 pounds and are not hard to carry if you don't have any health issues (joint problems?); they provide significantly better views of nebulae and globular clusters compared to an 8".

[issdaol]

Hi Rod,

I have not used the CGEM HD but I have personally owned both a Meade 8" SCT and a Celestron CPC1100 GPS XLT SCT

The Meade 8" is very easy to carry and manoeuver.

The CPC1100 is a little heavier and bulkier but if you are careful carrying it, you can leave it fully setup inside and carry it outside each night for viewing sessions.

I was able to do some short exposure Astrophotography with the CPC1100 but an equatorial mount is better for longer exposures.

If you are looking for some good visuals definately go for the 11" over the 8". The CPC1100 was great visually, so I would recommend the 11" CGEMHD assuming the optics and mount are better.

Cheers

[gregbradley]

I have had both a Meade LX90 8 inch and a Nexstar 11 GPS.

They were both fun but neither are very good for astrophotoraphy.
The 11 inch was wonderful visually and also great for planetary imaging.

I liked the Celestron a bit better than the Meade as it was veyr easy to setup and get going and was quieter.

SCTs are great visual instruments.

The Edge HD OTA on a GEM would be my choice of setup although the Meade ACFs have more track record and Fred here has shown them to be good imaging instruments if that is where you are heading.

The Celestron also has the advantage of Fastar for imaging as Marc has shown lately it is worth having.

Greg.

[bigbod]

Thanks for your replies everyone. You've pretty much confirmed my thoughts - I need to man up and purchase the 10 or 11" scope :)

Looks like the 10" LX200 can be had for around $5200-$5300 at the moment. I'm waiting on some quotes for the Celestron CGEM EdgeHD 1100. Anyone heard any decent pricing for this scope?

Cheers
Rod

[renormalised]

You won't get an EdgeHD 1100 on a CGEM for $5300....not even close. Double that price would be more like it The Celestrons are way overpriced and not value for money and in all honesty, the optics aren't that much better than a Meade's to warrant the extra cost. Actually, I don't think they're any better...except for their mounts, which a very good. Many of the stores don't even have them listed in their product ranges, which says something. My Astroshop (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/catadiopt.asp?ProdID=MAS-076B) has them listed, but not their price...Steve's probably wanting to keep that hidden so it doesn't scare anyone:P

[Lost In Space]

So now the choice for both of us is between an lx200 or an EdgeHD :question:

A lot of people seem to think the EdgeHD isn't any better than the lx200. And it's hard to compare scopes unless you can compare images of the two taken of the same object at the same time under the same conditions. And then there's the decision about the mount. Fork mount with wedge or the CGEM equatorial?

Decisions, decisions :P

[issdaol]

:eyepop:Pheeww recently checked the Prices of the EdgeHD 11" and the Pro EdgeHD 11".

At those prices I would seriously consider a Takahashi Mewlon 250 and Takahashi EM200 Mount.

Give Claude a bell at AEC
http://www.astronomy-electronics-centre.com.au/

Cheers

[bigbod]

Yeah, I hear you. I'm leaning towards the the 10" LX200ACF right now. For around $5300 they appear to be the better value proposition. I was quoted a few scary prices for the 11" CGEM EdgeHD today. The cheapest came in around $5699 for the OTA + $2499 for the CGEM mount. The $2900 difference (or $1900 if I factor in $1000 for an ultrawedge) pays for a LOT of accessories :)

The LX200 is a well proven package. There isn't a lot of feedback out there for the CGEM EdgeHD combination yet. Given the price difference, I'm not sure I want to be an "early adopter".

No-one has been able to give me an ETA for the 11" CGEM EdgeHD, although the 8" model is available in Sydney.

[Lost In Space]

Yeah the lx200 does look like a better buy if your buying from Australia. have you thought about buying from the US through an agent?

The EdgeHD 1100 is $3499US and the lx200 10" is $3599US, plus the fee for the agent. It's probably better to buy locally however so you get warranty. I'm still comparing prices and deciding what I should do. It's a lot of money, and I want to make sure I make the right choice haha.

[casstony]

A couple of other options:

Bintel: 10" ACF on an EQ6 equatorial mount.

Andrews: 11" Celestron standard SCT on a CGEM

Both priced at $5499

The fork mounted scopes are around 65 pounds which is awkward to carry regularly and are not as well suited to imaging. The original C11 is still a nice scope and great for visual; if you're more interested in imaging the Meade ACF would be better, assuming you've done an apprenticeship with smaller scopes.

[issdaol]

More Food for thought :) :

The one thing that always impressed me with my Meade's with a fork mount was ease of setup and alignment.

A 2 star alignment for the Meade units that I owned always put the proper stars in the field of view and kept them there.

Comparatively I found the Celestron fork mount star alignment to be longer and less precise.

Both of my Meade units were older USA Manufactured Systems and also had good Optics.

Cheers

[DavidTrap]

Can I just offer my 2 cents worth, as someone who started out with an LX-90 and then bought a GEM & Refractor for imaging.

I started with an LX-90. I stupidly thought that autoguiding would make imaging a breeze. I have learnt that the quality of your mount is paramount to imaging - you can't making chicken salad from chicken *^$&. A 10inch LX-200 OTA is a 2500mm focal length lens. The accuracy of tracking required for that is almost unfathomable. I have just started imaging at 6-800mm on a high quality mount and am discovering this will be a long road to travel. When I talked to people in my club about imaging they said to cut my teeth at ~800mm before trying anything above 1000mm, let alone 2000mm. (Remember, even with a focal reducer, your 10inch OTA will still be 1575mm - and the standard focal reducers don't work on the ACF optics)

Please don't do what I did, and think that buying a fork mounted LX-90 or LX-200 will let you get into imaging one day. A fork mount is not friendly for imaging. I know people do it, but they must have the patience of a saint. I have kept my LX-90 as a visual scope - it is fabulous for that in Alt-Az mode - the tracking and GOTO are brilliant. The optics are impressive and one day I may defork the OTA and try imaging with it on my GEM.

The suggestion of buying an LX-200 OTA and EQ6 mount would be preferable, but I'd put $2 on the fact that you'd end up with a 3-4 inch refractor when you wanted to start imaging. Unfortunately, there is no one scope that will fill all of your wants and desires.

DT

[gregbradley]

My experience mirrors Davids.

Greg.

[Lost In Space]

Thanks for the advice!

The reason I wanted a large aperture was for visual and imaging, but as you said, it will be a pain guiding it for imaging. Maybe it would be best to save money and not buy a EdgeHD or an lx200, but buy a cheaper SCT for visual observing, and piggyback an apo refractor for imaging on an equatorial mount?

You might have just saved me some money and disappointment :)

[DavidTrap]

The corrected SCT optics are great for visual observing. If you truly want to get into imaging, then get a GEM from the outset - they you can add whatever scope you like onto that mount (within reason!).

DT

[bigbod]

Yes, I recently purchased a Coronado DSM mount for my double-stacked PST from Woodland Hills Telescopes via a US agent. The exercise was flawless, but I'm a little gun-shy when it comes to using the service for such a large purchase. Gotta envy those Americans, sometimes!

[bigbod]

Thanks for your comments. Do you think that a Celestron EdgeHD/CGEM with Fastar f/2 compatibility makes the Celestron a more versatile scope for imaging? Do you have any opinions of the CGEM mount?

Cheers
Rod

[DavidTrap]

Hi Rod,

I've never seen a Fastar in the flesh, but the results from Marc are impressive. The versatility is seductive, but consider the cost of everything, vs separate scopes for widefield vs narrowfield.

I have no opinion of a CGEM mount - I've detailed my reasons for buying an AP in another thread, but basically:

1. I've skipped the upgrade path - there were a lot of EQ6s being sold when I was tossing all this up. Either people getting out of the hobby or upgraders.

2. I don't have time to fiddle with a mount and tune it like some do with their EQ6 or G-11.

3. I took the advice of others that basically says, "When it comes to astrophotography, the three most import things are: mount; mount and mount!" I saw the AP as essentially top of the line whilst remaining portable.

I went with Meade for many reasons. I had exposure to both Celestrons and Meades at high school - I just liked the Meade stuff more. I also liked the potential for service of Meade gear through Bintel in Sydney with Don Whiteman.

DT