Are they serious - monster dobs?

[erick]

http://www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=tbdt


The customer is also responsible for arranging for needed material handling equipment at the delivery site (for example, the crated 50" mirror will weigh about 500 lbs — you'll want a forklift or a whole bunch of friends!). :eyepop:

[supernova1965]

I wonder on the 50" could I use my 10" DOB as the finder scope:rofl::rofl:

[mental4astro]

Mate, RSF on a 7X50, mounted on a 6", in turn mounted on the 10"! Plus an 8" mak as a guide scope.

Never enough scopes!

[OzRob]

I was tempted to hit 'Add to Cart' on the 1270mm monster. However, the US$123000 price tag right next to it repelled the mouse arrow...:P

[Terry B]

I like the last comment.

Please note this product was not designed or intended by the manufacturer for use by a child 12 years of age or younger.



Just the thing to buy for your 12 year old who has everything for a cool US$123 000.

[mswhin63]

Notice there is no pictures of the 50", I can only assume they have not made one yet.

[DavidU]

LOL, market research!
They will wait to see if there is a market for these things.

[Spanrz]

Since I'll be going over the States in a few weeks, if I find a shop that has some of these "monsters" and close by, I'll try and take a pic :)

[erick]

Better wait a while - expected ship date of the "little" one, which is the earliest, is 30 June 2010.

[Gama]

I can see them being bought by Universities, High schools, Research centers, etc.
I know if i had the money, i'd buy one for sure.

This reminds me of the days when the big 29" dobs were being made in the U.S.A. Thats a long time ago too. Some of us should still remember those days.

I really think the 50" and 40" should have been a folded Newtonian. Man what a hike up the ladder, not to mention housing of the freak of nature too.

Theo.

[mithrandir]

You really need a cherry picker.



Where do you put the Telrad?

SDM do a 32". Wonder what they'd want for a 36"?

[citivolus]

Their HQ is in Watsonville, just south of Santa Cruz, and last time I stopped in, granted this was some time ago, did have a retail area. The retail store in Cupertino likely wouldn't have space to set up one of even the smaller models in the showroom :)

[gary]

We're pleased to note that these premium scopes come fitted with
Argo Navis Digital Telescope Computers in conjunction with ServoCAT
slew and track servo controller systems.

These instruments are built by Normand Fullum of Télescopes Normand Fullum
in Quebec, Canada on behalf of Orion. Some pictures that Normand sent us
of the 36" prototype are attached.

Those interested in the art of telescope making may be familiar with some
of Normand's previous telescopes built in beautiful timbers with exotic detailing.
Pictures of one of these scopes, a 16" f4.5 made in rosewood, can be
found on our web site here at these locations -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/fullum_4.jpg
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/fullum_1.jpg
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/fullum_3.jpg
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/fullum_2.jpg

Normand's scopes routinely turn heads at Stellafane, home of the
Springfield Telescope Makers club in Vermont, every year.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[gary]

Hi Theo,

Large aperture Dob manufacturing is alive and well in the United States.
For example, Optical Mechanics Inc (OMI) delivered a 48" Dob with
Argo Navis and ServoCAT to Jimi Lowrie in Fort Davis, Texas in 2007.
See http://www.opticalmechanics.com/evolution_dobs/Evo-48_intro/index.html
Additional images on the Wildcard Innovations web site here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/barbarella1.gif
and here -
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/lowrie1.jpg

Jimi houses the scope in his private observatory not far from the Prude Ranch,
home of the Texas Star Party. Jimi and anyone who has ever had the opportunity
to look through it have told me the views are absolutely spectacular.

James Mulherin, President of OMI took on the challenge to build these premium
Dobs with encouragement from Dave Kriege of Obsession when Dave announced
he would not be building any more scopes over 25" in aperture. Dave built a limited
run of 30" a couple of years ago that were quickly snapped up. Many of Dave's
scopes feature optics provided by OMI.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Phone +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Rodstar]

I assume the prices are largely for the mirror?

I am a little perplexed as to how one would move these monsters about. I guess a permanent observatory is the way one would have to go, or else enlist an army of willing helpers to load it up for an annual pilgrimage to a star party???

I read someone recently that we may well end up with mirrors as large as 100 inches being available to the amateur market. Imagine the logistics of transporting a 100 inch telescope to SPSP each year!!!

[mithrandir]

A while back I saw an add from one manufacturer who builds a large scope (>36") on a trailer. The mirror box never has to be moved. I guess the trailer has a better class of suspension than the usual cart springs.

100"? You'd need a "wide load" sign, and probably a police escort.

[Spanrz]

<sarcasm>
Hehe, you are allowed to go to 3.5 mt's wide with out these...
So buy what you can...
</sarcasm>
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


These large dobs would be a waste for Melbourne location, well I mean *cough* by the time you drive out on a clear night (or day) to a dark spot, setup for the few hours, it's clouded over.
I mean, it's that man Murphy, he lives a lot in Melbourne...:screwy:

But boy, lovely to have :eyepop:, I know where my lotto winnings will go to.

[mithrandir]

Remember the thread title - "Are they serious".

100"=2.54m. Add a mirror box and 3.5m is not improbable.

If you weren't transporting the mirror horizontal, by the time you'd come up with something suitable the truck or trailer might cost more than the scope.

[bojan]

Well, this is OK for good, permanent site, properly housed, high up on top of a mountain, far away from cities..
I am not sure there are many amateurs who could or would want to afford something like this... but then again, who knows... In Germany there is one guy who goes around with 1m dobson (!!!)
In my view, it is absolute waste of money and time - the scope is big enough to offer a glimpse into serious stuff, but everything else with this design is just not adequate for any really serious work.
People with aspirations for such apertures should simply forget about big-boys toys and start doing professional work.
IMHO.

[Rodstar]

Sorry...I had a brain explosion. In fact what I had been reading about was 100cm diametre mirror, which of course is ONLY 40 inches diametre....it would seem the Orion scopes are in fact what was being referrred to in what I was reading....

[dcalleja]

Thanks for the info and pics Gary - One can dream

[icytailmark]

if i win the 30 million dollar lotto i would buy a 50" Dob and my own observatory :)

[icytailmark]

would u be able to see blackholes and quasars with a telescope this big?

[mozzie]

you would have to stand on the roof of your house to see out the focuser:lol::lol::lol: or grab a rope and hang out a tree:question:

[seeker372011]

who wants to be a a (very tall) millionaire?

[AG Hybrid]

Don't point a Monster Dob at the sun! Just pointing this at the sun can instantly damage eyepieces and cause irreversible eye damage and burns. Use extreme caution leaving it uncovered during daylight. Concentrated sunlight from this much aperture can damage the telescope or set its surroundings on fire!

Oh yeah now were talking. Fire zeee laserrr!

[multiweb]

:eyepop: I reckon I'd forget to step down the ladder and would walk sideways after a few minutes going "wow" at the eyepiece... :shrug:
This is high-risk observation.... anything above 20 degrees. ;)

[pgc hunter]

that 50" is tall enough to punch thru the Melbourne Cloud, so no worries there!



A house? Try a 3 story McMansion and a stepladder :rofl:

[Satchmo]

Rod

These large mirror blanks are made with low cost technology so the normal commercial mirror blank prices wouldn't apply . The plate glass blanks have very thin face sheets with an array of rectangular stalks in between that give the blanks their 'thickness'. I haven't seen this kind of design ( where the internal ribs are just stalks ) . I guess it remains to be seen how they perform both practically and in the market place. It will be interesting to see some sort of credible independent optical testing of the large mirrors. Testing such a mirror would be a major feat in itself.

Have a look at this link and down the bottom for photos of the blanks, and the pricing structure.

http://www.normandfullumtelescope.com/mirror_en.html


Mark

[Satchmo]

Mirror blank picture from Fullham website...

[erick]

That is fascinating mirror technology. I take it the "thickness" is to hold the front surface rigid? Why couldn't the thickness be provided by something else rather then pillars of glass onto another glass plate - a lump of plastic, wood?? :confused2: I guess the front surface should only be rigidly connected to something with the same coefficient of expansion?

[mithrandir]

Tradeoff? The cost and weight of a solid blank would be prohibitive. It could be drilled to reduce the weight, but that would just increase the cost.

The glass pillars and the back must have the same thermal properties as the mirror, which other materials wouldn't.

I would have thought that having some radially aligned strips with intermediate pillars would be more vibrationally stable, but I'm not a materials physicist.

[Satchmo]

These plate glass blanks are made by an amateur astronomer in his basement in Quebec. Its open slather really if you want to tinker with blank design and can build a kiln to fuse glass: you are not anwerable to NASA :)

Mark

[bratislav]

I expected they'd moved into faster f/ratios (f/3 and like) for those monsters. I hate those tall scopes. Not that I'm afraid of height, but they are so hard to move from top of the ladder, especially closer to zenith. I'd much rather stick with 30" f/3 than go 40" if it had to be f/4.
50" f/4 - forget it. That is going to be unusable.

Just saw Orion site - 50" is planned to be f/3.75. Still almost 5m tall. Still unusable in my book (perhaps unless actively driven. Even then, not many people will climb 4+ m ladder for a peek)

[erick]

ServoCAT and Argo Navis standard equipment, I think. So yes, actively driven. Push the goto button and it sweeps you off the ladder as it slews! Perhaps have ladder on wheels and wrap your arms around the UTA before you push the button!

[gary]

Hi Bratislav,

Certainly tall scopes aren't everyones cup of tea! However keep in mind that you
don't need to manually push the scope as they have full servo motor controlled slew
and track capability. With the wireless handpad, one can also make small corrections
whilst at the eyepiece.

I remember joking to Larry Mitchell whilst coming down the ladder of his
36" f/5 that probably one of the reasons galaxies looked so spectacular
through it was because by the time you went up the ladder you were almost
half way there. :lol:

Many American observers use ladders with half-steps, that is twice as many steps
as normal. For some reason one doesn't encounter many ladders with half steps
at star parties here in Australia. Some of the best observing ladders I have
encountered are those designed for the use in orchards in the US that have additional
hand rails at the top that then allow the user to take a more secure, relaxed and
comfortable stance when one reaches the top.

Some fixed observatory users employ scissor lifts.

Jimi Lowrey's OMI designed telescope is a 48" f/4.
http://www.lowreyobservatory.com/
Every report I have heard from anyone lucky enough to look through this
instrument seems to confirm the views makes the climb very worthwhile.
This particular scope also has a ServoCAT slew and track system so that the
operator is not having to manually wrestle with the scope, which otherwise
could prove a handful, particularly at the zenith.

I was lucky to spend some time on Steve Kennedy's 32" f/3.66 in California.
As an optician, Steve's specialty was in producing these large aperture,
short focal length scopes. When Al Nagler popped the prototype 13mm Ethos
into it, he confirmed it definitely needed a Paracorr. Nevertheless, this scope
provided fabulous views.
See http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/images/kennedy1.jpg

At the IceInSpace AstroCamp, Mark Suching commented to me about some
of the technical challenges in producing such large aperture short focal length mirrors
and over time we will undoutedly see more of these types of mirrors come to
market as the science and art in producing them evolves.

Best regards

Gary

[Rodstar]

Thanks for that info Mark. Very interesting. Some of those beautiful hand crafted scopes look incredible (if somewhat impractical for transportation etc).

Just out of interest, what is the biggest mirror you have figured, and what is the biggest you would be prepared to try??!! (one can always dream of that future project....an f/3 40" mirror would suit me!!!):)

[Louwai]

Brilliant idea Eric.:thumbsup: I'll talk to Peter about some such thing for my 20". :D:rofl:

[bratislav]

Hi Gary,

make no mistake, I would definitely be there, in the line for a climb ! But best scope is scope that gets used most often, and at last ASVs Starbeque I strongly felt it was not worth climbing the ladder of society's 25" Obsession where a nearby Phil's and Stephen's 20" f/3.7 (with one of Marks excellent mirrors) offered almost the same views with both feet firmly on the ground. Spending time going up and down the ladder to re-aim the scope is now becoming bothersome to me.
I know how hard it would be to make a 30" f/3, but such scope (with folding flat, hence ground level or single step observing) would offer the views to perhaps 100 times more people than 50" f/4, driven or not. Even if I would queue to have a peek in one of those skyscraping monsters, I would NOT long owning one of those.

Bratislav

[Paddy]

I like the way they tout these huge scopes as the cure for aperture fever. It seems to me more like they are its ultimate expression!

[JethroB76]

I see them as the end of the road "treatment"-wise for this AF illness, being that if you're not cured by these, its terminal :lol:

[thunderchildobs]

Sirius optics in Brisbane have them in their "New Products" section.
http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/index11.htm

I am pretty sure the the 50" is bigger than the shop.

[floyd_2]

I wonder when a Panoptic 4" eyepiece will be available for these behemoths :D.


A number of years ago I built a step ladder for a friend with a 25" Obsession, to be used out at Ilford (NSW). I built an observing platform at the top of the ladder with ample space to walk around safely, and carpeted it. The platform / ladder combo had wheels on the bottom so that it could be moved about as needed. It worked out very well for him.

Dean

[StarGazing]

LOL........ Good idea though.

50" WOW. If only I could win TAT's :sadeyes:

Alex.

[stephenb]

Do we see the term "monster dob" a part of the astronomy landscaoe in the next 10 years?

[telecasterguru]

Well, after reading all about these scopes I have decided to sell my house, buy a 50" dob and move into the mirror box.

Frank

[Gama]

You'll be moving into a larger premises then :P.

Theo

[stephenb]

Become a landlord and rent out the secondary mirror cage?

[erick]

Penthouse suite :rofl: Might sway a bit in the breeze!

[stephenb]

All tall buildings sway, Erick, you should know that! :rofl:

[telecasterguru]

The secondary mirror cage is going to be the onsuite. I suppose I'll have to buy a shroud for it. Modesty rules.

Ffrank

[Satchmo]

Bare in mind that these 50" F3.7 scopes are currently vapor-ware, guys. Someone put up the deposit for one and see if they can actually succesfully make one that works .I will stick to the spectator stand :)

Mark

[Gama]

That was about the shipping weight of my 20" CDK with mount, crate etc.
Cost me a pretty penny to get it here shipped by Air cargo..
Just need the beers to keep up the energy needed to put the dob together.
Just hope it doesnt look like the leaning tower of Pisa when finished.:ashamed:

Theo

[GrahamL]

While it'd be cool to have one , you'd have to think the view would positively boil in averge seeing at an average site ?.. that monster dob
from what I remember was completely built around the pristine area and place it was to permanantly be housed ?.. figure that in and the 100K
only looks like the deposit :D

[Gama]

Just a further note on these giants..
I was in a chat with Normand Fullum (The builder), and spoke to him about folded newt options, and he tells me it will have soon. You can opt for it now, but it will be made publicly in time.
So, imagine a 40" and all you need is a kitchen 2 step, step ladder.

Theo

[pgc hunter]

One has to wonder, why don't companies make scopes of this size in Naysmith form? Pretty much any aperture can be had with the observer's feet on the ground (or butt in chair)!

Oh yes, but collimating would be a bugger!

[Satchmo]

Becasue they would have to be Cassegrain. Expensive and mega focal length.

[CarlJoseph]

I'm wondering about the EP location on these crazy scopes. Would it work to have a mirror where the EP is and have it bounce the image down the side of the scope and then another mirror to bounce it into an EP closer to ground?

Kind of like a periscope on the outside of the OTA?

[JethroB76]

This is kind of what Sab was suggesting above, re Naysmith.
I think there was some suggestion that Peter from SDM was going to start to offer his big dobs with a folded design too...

[CarlJoseph]

Thanks. The Nasmyth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasmyth_telescope) has the 3rd mirror on the inside of the OTA so that would require another spider or some sort I'm guessing. ??