Recommended Binoculars??

[Vartigy]

Binoculars.

So I've been cruising the skys with my 8"dob for quite a while now.
I do alot of deep Australia travelling (mine sites) and have swooned over the lost opportunities of pitch black skies at these mine site locations. Too hard to take my dob on each journey, plus the roads i travel on will shake the poor thing to bits.

So I'm looking for a nice pair of bino's to do Planet, Messy(DSO, Messier series) viewing and general star walking.

Any recommendations?
At what model size does a tri-pod become neccessary?

Cheers in advance guys :thumbsup:

[dannat]

binos do not do planets well, unless you get 100mm with interchangable ep's, but then they become heavy & not portable.

i think a tripod becomes necessary almost once you go past 10x mag - as it is difficult to hold higher mag steady.

if you don't want to take a tripod i would get some 10x50's - i have the 10x50 ultras - which are waterproof & shock resistant..give decent views of jupiter's moons. If you get smaller binos you wil buy cheaper better quality porro as compared to roof;s - i reckon you need to pay decent dollars to get good roofs
if you want a tripod then either 15x70 or 20x80 would be my choice. in this category i have 15x70 ultras - the coatings on the higher priced binos makes the views crisp & the binos should last a life time

[Robh]

I have a pair of Orion Mini Giants.
Fully multi-coated with BAK-4 prisms.
Specs- 9x63mm, 5 degree FOV and 7mm exit pupil for night viewing.
Extra-long eye relief at 26mm.
Only weighs about 1.2 kg so you don't need a tripod.

After using my 7x50mm binoculars for many years, the Orion leaves it for dead. Star colours are much truer, many more stars come into view and DSO objects are picked up much more easily in darker skies e.g. galaxy NGC 55 in Sculptor or globular cluster NGC 4833 in Musca.

I noticed Bintel have dropped the price from $419 to $349.
Worth every cent!

Regards, Rob.

[GrahamL]

Had a pair of these for about a year or two now.
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=3512

For a pair of dirt cheap roofs they work great ,light enough to be hand held and show up a fair bit of sky.

I do notice some false colour around the outer 10% of the view through daytime use but its not to objectionable..Its also fantastic to see like most of my astronomy purchases these are now selling for considerably less than I paid for them:(.

[Vartigy]

Thanks for the replies gents. Keep em coming.

Quick noobular question. What do you mean by 'roof' ?

[chris lewis]

Actually the 2x binos which have been mentioned above I would also recommend strongly. The 10x50 and the 15x70 'MB Ultras' as sold by Andrews. These are the Kunming-United series 8AB and sold Internationally by Oberwerk as the Ultras, Garrett as the Signature series, Orion as the Resolux and others. They have have excellent specs. and universally get good to excellent reviews. Optically they give bright and contrast images. There are minimal aberrations and distortions. There is mild peripheral curvature of field which is to be expected. They both have a wide Afov of 65 degrees. The light transmision is excellent via the very high quality lens coatings. They measure there true aperture. They are I.F. They have comfortable rubber eye cups with good eye relief. They are not overly expensive for what you get. They are both reasonably heavy due to there excellent and robust build qualities - however the 10x50 can be hand help whilst the 15x70 should be tripod mounted to maximise there potential. I have them both them and if I was starting bino astronomy again these would be the 2x I would get. [Unless I was ultra rich !]. These binos were actually designed to match the Fujinon equivalents at a more affordable price. Fujinon astro binos. are regarded as one of the leaders in optical quality.
The 9x63 binos offer 7 mm exit pupils which are good for very dark skies which you say you will view from so this is good. 7 mm exit pupils are designed for very dark skies and / or young eyes. Otherwise you will loose effective aperture via wasted light as your pupils will not dilate enough to accomodate the exiting light cone. The Meades are hard to recommend fully - they are only 'Multi Coated' and they give noticable secondary internal reflections esp. on bright objects but with dark skies this is less apparent. They are not W.P but again not a major in dry or non humid areas, however there true aperture is 56 mm which I have measured and this has been verified by others. I have had 3x Meade 9x63's and two of them were badly miscollimated so check the Q. and A. first. I have not measured the Orion Mini Giants but would recommend them over the Meade's if you did choose a 9x63 -but again I would not recommend a 7 mm exit pupil bino as a first and or a general astro. bino unless they are really always used in dark skies.
Astro. binos have to have the highest specs. really as it really tests the optics severly - so F.M.C. lens. / Bak- 4 prisms and excellent optical / build / and Q. and A. standards are required to acquire good contrast, resolution of detail and sharp pin point stars. Otherwise distortions and an inferior image will be more apparent - yes you can get away with more mid level specs. but the view will deteriorate and you will get frustrated. I also personally prefer I.F. binos [Individal focus] for astro. work as there is then less likely hood of eyebridge movement and focus once set remains permanent.
Porros are 'generally' recommended over 'Roofs' for astro use - the difference is around primarily how the prisms are arranged - there is a section here on IIS and or 'Cloudy Nights' explaining the differences.
Having said that a Hi-quailty roof with good specs. / phase correction can give impressive images. I have a Minox BD 10x58 ED BR which is expensive but it does give truely excellent astro. images. Smaller roof bino versions like a 8x42 / 10x42 can also also give good images however for the dark sky sites like you envisage you really you need a high quality 15x70 as a minimum.
The next leap up are the bulky 25x100 binos which require a heavy - read expensive mount. They do however give stunning dark sky view viewing. Most Chinese 20x80's have an effective aperture of around -71/72 mm.
Which again comes back to the Ultra 15x70's as the front runners.

Good luck.

Chris

[Doc63]

I just recently purchased a pair of 12x50 Bushnell Legends. They have fully multi coated lenses and bak-4 prisms. I have only used then in my backyard so far, but I am very happy with them. I cant wait to use them on a very dark sky in Fiji in January.

I didn't want to go any bigger as I also wanted them for daytime use as well.

The lowest price I had seen in Melbourne was $399 and one shop quoted me $550. Then I saw them in another shop for $300. They ended up giving them to me for $240.

[PCH]

Binocs come in two "shapes". There's the type that most have where the eyepieces are offset in relation to the objective lenses. The distance between the eyepieces is a lot less than the distance between the lenses at the business end. The prisms used in this style of binocs are called porro prisms.

Then there are the binocs where the eyepieces and the objective lenses are arranged like a pair of the cardboard tubes from the centres of dunny rolls stuck together side by side. The prisms used in this type are called 'roof' prisms. That's what he means :thumbsup:

[Vartigy]

:D Thanks Paul. Much appreciated. Clearly understandable now.

Awesome writeup. Thanks Chris.

Now I've just got to make my decision. Wife and family want to buy me a pair for xmas, but insist I choose them... then insist I forget about them until xmas... and then insist upon surprising me xmas day... !

[Solanum]

I've been a birdwatcher for nearly 30 years and I would consider strongly whether you want to use them for daytime use as well or not. I have found that fairly cheap bins serve pretty well for astro use, but are very disappointing for daytime use.

For birdwatching I wouldn't look at anything less than about $400 (for 8x40 or the like), but you can probably pay less than half of that for very acceptable bins for astro use.

[chris lewis]

Sorry that is very incorrect. The optical qualities required for astronomical use are generally greater then those for terrestrial use. 'Cheap' binococular's do not work for astronomical use. Distortions and aberrations will soon show up. Stars need to be pin point with no secondary reflections or flareing esp. on bright objects. There needs to be minimal curvature of field. Collimation needs to be exact. Those qualities are not found in cheap or entry level binos.
Cheap binoculars do work for astro or birding use. It is best to get as high quality bino if you can.

Chris

[Solanum]

Fair enough, but my personal experience is that colour fringing, a bane of cheaper binoculars, is not very evident when using bins for astronomy. On the other hand when using them for birding it can be extremely annoying, particularly when a bird is silhouetted against the sky. Also poor focussing is less annoying for astro use as well, because you typically only focus them occasionally and don't have to keep changing focus. Finally, for casual use I don't think field curvature is too much of a problem either due to the large field of view, but I'm sure that with serious use it would be.

However, it was in fact astro use that showed the collimation to be out on an older pair of my bins, the double star effect was much more obvious than the more general blurring during the day. So I certainly wouldn't disagree with you there. However, I've generally found collimation to be fine on new bins, even those at the $100 level.

Horses for courses, but personally I'd be happy with $200 bins from AoE or the like for casual astronomy use, but can't stand that type of binocular for daytime use (birdwatching) - and I'm not talking just from the experience of the bins I currently own.

Anyhow, your advice to get the best binoculars you can afford is always correct!

[chris lewis]

Solanum - sorry if my reply sounded a bit aggressive I did not intend it to be. :)
I guess the astronomer in me came out.:shrug:
CA is a concern as you said for terrestrial / birding use and on the brighter astro objects.
When I starting of in bino astronmy I must have spent many hundreds of wasted dollars on inferior binos only to become frustated with the poor optics and build qualities.
I would rather have 1x quality bino then 5x mediocre ones.
There is a very noticable difference when you do get superior bino and yes they do cost more but then again no one every regretted paying for quality.

Chris

[erick]

Chris, please tell us about your 38 (:eyepop:) binos sometime. :)

[Vartigy]

ROFL. I heard he built an extension on his house purely for the storage of them. The Bino Wing. Aptly titled :P

On the original note.
Did some searching and found Rob's suggestion of Orion Mini Giants to be of good price range, size and good reviews.
Going to suggest them to the wife.

[Vartigy]

Well the mini giants have arrived. Took them out, had a quick look and feel. I'm impressed so far.
Haven't had a chance to use them yet as I don't have two hands free to sight them in. Recently had shoulder surgery. Should be sweet come christmas time.
Will let you know how they go then.