Are my new binoculars duds (seeing double)?

[Kerosene]

I got some 15 X 60 Andrews binoculars today, and spent all day playing with them - and wondering why things weren't as clear as I'd hoped.

Tonight I've been looking at the sky - and seeing double.

Knowing next to nothing about it, I'm assuming that the collimation is way out - should I return them and ask for a replacement?
Or if anyone owns a similar model, can you give me some advice on how to collimate them myself?

[mental4astro]

Kero, are you seeing double distant objects during the day? I'd talk to Andrews first. If you can get back to their store, test another pair to the same model, or two.

[Kerosene]

Daylight images seem to be slightly better, but stars and distant streetlights are WAY out (doubled). All day I've been trying to convince myself that my new binoculars were OK (looking at sheep!), but tonight when I looked at some stars I knew something was wrong.

I'm not too keen on paying postage back to Andrews unless I really have to. Is it possible to collimate them myself?

[leon]

With most binoculars you have to adjust them to suit your eyes, and to do this you have to do one eye at a time.

Lift your binos up to your eyes, then cover the objective of the side with your hand that dose not have a individual focusing device.

Turn this focusing device either way until you can focus on something, when you are satisfied remove your hand and then focus with the middle knob only until the focus is clear.

Leon

[Kerosene]

Leon - I've been doing that all day! It doesn't make any difference.

:help:

[leon]

Ok mate ;) well then you have a problem, :shrug: it was just a suggestion. :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:

[Kerosene]

Thanks Leon. I've got plenty of problems, this is just one of them! :D

I'm prepared to peel back the rubber casing and collimate them myself (if it's possible with this model). I just need a push from someone who's done it before.

I rather not turn my cheap binoculars into "expensive" cheap binoculars by forking out for the replacement postage to and from Andrews.

I've broken far more expensive things with a screwdriver before... :P

[DavidU]

It is often a prism that has been bumped out of collimation. It is a bit fiddly but can be done. Also sometimes rotating the objective lens one at a time (a few degrees at a time) can work. I have fixed many binos like this.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Kerosene (or is it Roger??),

Yes, this is fairly easy to do to collimate them. (you just need to "screwdriver one" side of them :lol: Also, I have had the same problem with my 11x70 Andrews ones, they were bumped out of collimation when I took them to China with me.

1) Push the rubber grips down to see where the collimation screw is on each side. You will need a small flat blade jewellers screwdriver.

2) Start with one side only as you will probably find that only one side is out.

3) Look at an object fairly far away, I use a church steeple which has a nice and handy cross on the roof :)

4) When you see double, keep your left eye as the reference and then turn the right side screw a couple of turns to see which way the image shifts.

5) After a few turns, you should be able to see which way you need to go. When you get really close, you might find you may need to tweak the other side a little bit, however, I haven't had to as the bump only caused the right side to shift.

See how you go, just be careful not to turn too far, the prisms are made of glass after all.

I think these designs may be susceptible to this problem, however the price is a lot cheaper than the dearer ones which I think probably don't have this problem.

It should be something you can sort out yourself, keep in mind this is supposed to be able to be done by the owner, so even if you can't sort it out, let Andrews know and they should fix it for you or replace them. They did just that with my first set and had no objections to replacing them.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Chris

[Kerosene]

Thanks Chris! You've pushed me over the edge, no going back now...

I bit the bullet and eased the rubber casing back, thank god for cheap Chinese glue that snaps apart! I've found the screws on both sides, they're both covered in glue but still turn easily.

I'll wait until tomorrow/daylight to go any further.

I've found what seems to be a decent tutorial on collimating binoculars (http://www.oberwerk.com/support/collimate.htm), so will do a bit of reading and twiddling in the morning.

[erick]

Yep, you've found the best tutorial for a basic collimation tweak. Follow it carefully and 9 times out of 10 you'll get a good result, is my experience. You should only have to adjust one side - I'm right-handed so for me it's the right side front prism tilt screw because I can be looking through them and holding the screwdriver on the screw at the same time. Typically the image will move some distance (hopefully enough), then stop moving either as the screw reaches the end of travel pushing against the prism, or lifts off the prism. Sometimes there isn't enough travel, so you back it off, put it back into its range of travel and try the left hand side screw.

Make sure you have a good straight horizontal line to look at. A gutter is good. Make it fairly distant - a hundred metres or more. Keep your head back from the eyepieces so you are seeing two distinct images. Adjust your eyes until the two images touch each other and you can see if the vertical adjustment is out.

Remember to set the IPD (inter-pupillary distance) first (bend them until your eyes are merging the two images into one circle). When you do get them collimated, that collimation may well go out when you change the IPD. Full collimation across the full range of IPD is a more sophisticated activity!

Have them nice and stable - on a tripod or on a cushion - to do this work.

Tell us how you go.

Oh, and carry the screw driver with them. You may need to tweak one side each time you use them, if they have been bumped.

Annoying - but you get what you pay for and with a little care and adjustment, you can get a lot of bang for your buck with such cheap binoculars.

Edit:- By the way, just worry about vertical collimation initially. This is the major problem for your eyes. Horizontal collimation requires more work (and I've stuffed one pair of binoculars trying to get that right) and usually your eyes cope well with a degree of horizontal miscollimation - your eyes are designed to merge images horizontally (you do it all day as you adjust your focus from objects further away to objects closer - even to the tip of your nose!) but not for merging images vertically (point one eyeball up and one down!!!)

[Kerosene]

From the brief view of the stars that I had tonight, it seems that the problem is mostly horizontal. I was seeing two stars, next to each other, neither one of them appeared to be above or below the other.

Am I in for a collimation baptism by fire?

[erick]

Maybe yes! :sadeyes: It would be a bit unusual. OK, check carefully with the tests - stable on tripod, looking at that distant rooftop/gutter. Carefully look into each eyepiece in turn and inspect all edges of the field of view until you are absolutely sure how they differ - vertically, horizontally or both. Move them to put a small object at the left, top, right, bottom of the left field of view and see where it is in the right field of view. Try the test at a few different IPDs.

If you are out horizontally only, have a good look at the barrels. I have seen a pair of binoculars with one of these screwed on cross-threaded so it was pointing like Marty Feldman's eyes!

[Kerosene]

Well... I couldn't resist. I was going to wait until tomorrow.. but I just turned the right screw about 1/3 revolution (vaguely educated guess), went out into the backyard, and magically everything seems to be coming together!

It's not perfect. But it's 100% better than it was before. I could happily live with my binoculars as they are right now.

After the improvement I've just seen from a dumb guess, I'm looking forward to tinkering with them in the daylight tomorrow. There's only so much you can do in PJs and slippers, using a wheelie bin as a tripod.


:thanx::clap:

[erick]

Try to turn the screw as you are looking through (or rather, at the two images). The you can see exactly what is happening and can stop at the right point, or go back and forwards around the merged point to see which is best way to approach it and stop - screwing in or out - ie any backlash that means the screw is better "firm" one way compared with the other.

[Kerosene]

I had a go in the daylight today, using a roof as a guide. I ended up only turning the right screw another quarter turn (or maybe even less) which has got the two images as close to the same vertical alignment as my eyes can tell. It's made a huge improvement when viewing things during the day. Hopefully I'll be seeing single stars tonight!

EDIT: Just been outside looking at stars. It's all good! I've glued the rubber casing back with a few spots of $2 super glue - which should hopefully snap apart if I ever need to make adjustments in the future. Thanks everyone for the tips :)

[Doc63]

I followed these instructions last night and was able to collimate my el-cheapo K-mart brand 10 x 50s (they actually have the old K-mart logo on them). I was seeing double and now they're fine. I was thinking of replacing them with a reaaly good quality pair, but now I'm having second thoughts.

[Screwdriverone]

Great to hear Kero,

Enjoy your new set of "eyes".

Cheers

Chris

[erick]

:thumbsup: Kero and Neil - easy, ain't it!

[taxman]

I once did some work for the ACCC and there are some interesting facts when it comes to internet shopping within Australia (i.e. Aus-based websites). Note that the below applies only to stores, not individuals selling on Ebay etc.

If the item is faulty, the store is required to pay for shipping both ways to replace your goods. You are still liable for the first shipping cost to you though.

If you ask for a refund (you are entitled to a refund from ANY store if the goods have a fault that was not disclosed at the time of purchase), they are required to refund the purchase price as well as both shipping costs (to you and then back to them).

Having said that, a lot of internet based stores will tell you to go jump if you point this out. But the various State consumer protection agencies have a pretty good track record on enforcing compliance. It will likely take a month or two, though...