Cheap Astrophotography

[EcoRI]

Hi all,

I've been a keen amateur astronomer for some time now, but I want to make the transition to astrophotography. I've been trying to find some web based links for a dirt cheap way of getting into it. That way I have not wasted $1000's if I find out its not my cup of tea.

My initial interest in this was due to a basic book published in 1991 by Bruck titled 'Exercises in practical astronomy using photographs'. Well I've gone through the exercises and want to apply the techniques to my own photos. I'm assuming that 20 year old technology may be purchased for a small cost nowdays (well I hope).

If anyone can post some links or offer some advice it would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Greg

[PCH]

Hi Greg,

I've listed below all the known links that show dirt cheap ways of getting into AP ...

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
.....

Getting the idea ;)

However, for really expensive ways of getting into AP, there will be enough suggestions to fill a wheel barrow. All the best :thumbsup:

[renormalised]

What's that....cheap astrophotography???:eyepop::P:D
Unless you stick to lunar and planetary stuff (and even here you can spend big), where you can get away with spending less than $600 on a good imager (Celestron NexImage...$300, DMK21...$600), it will start to bite hard in the hip pocket. Let's consider a baseline setup...

SWED100Pro...$899
EQ6Pro mount...$1999
Orion ST80 Guidescope (with rings and mount plate) $350
QHY5 autoguider....$380

That's nearly $3700 worth of equipment. Then if you want to snap DSO's, you're going to have to get a reasonable imager first up. You could go for a dSLR and if you look in the Trade and Classifieds section here, you might pick up a good one reasonably cheap. Or if you're going down the CCD imager side of things, you can get a Meade DSI (of one version of another) there too. If not, a DSI II will set you back $600, DSI III OCS (One Shot Colour) $1300. From there on, the sky's the limit. It just depends on what you can and what you're willing to spend.

Let's consider a reasonably good, middle of the road, setup...

Prostar 127WPF Apo....$3250
EQ6Pro mount....$1999
WO ZS70 guidescope....$549
QHY5 autoguider....$380
QHY8 Pro II Imager (OSC)....$3200 (or QHY 9....$3500 and QHY 2" filter wheel....$750, Astronomik Type II 2" RGB filters....$959)

There's nearly $9400 in equipment....$11400 for the QHY9 option. Then there's your laptop to run it all from, eyepieces and barlows/powermates etc.

Then, if you want to really spend the cash, it's a matter of take your pick and be prepared to fork out.

[multiweb]

Good mount and decent camera. The rest will fall into place. Buy only what you need and buy it once. :)

[EcoRI]

Thanks to all so far for their helpful input. Well I have a good slr, but what would be a good but cheap mount?

There seem to be several cheap ones on the market, but taking multiweb's advice of buying things once, are there any intermediate mounts that those in the know could suggest.

Thanks again,

Greg

[dannat]

if you want to try with just your camera you could buy an eq3 or similar with RA drive. I get 1min exposures at 200mm with an old vixen polaris mount.
it will atleast give you a taste & let you have something to process - which is half the skill involved

[bojan]

Greg, have a look here:

http://www.qcuiag.org.uk/

You will find plenty of good ideas there.

Also, a cheap way into astro-photography is classic, film (yes, film..) camera, on barn-door mount.
http://www.homebuiltastronomy.com/barndoor/index.htm
http://astronomyboy.com/barndoor/
http://www.astunit.com/tonkinsastro/atm/projects/scotch.htm

As Daniel mentioned, EQ3 with RA drive will not set you back a lot, I am sure you can find second-hand on ebay, this is better than barn-door.
Recently I acquired one from Bintel, for $50.. it needed quite a lot of repair, though.. but that is why it was 50 bucks. Of course, that was one off, but they may have something similar again, so it is worth a look at the shop from time to time.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45079

Once you find out you really want to take this path, you can start spending more serious money... but, keep in mind that to do some real science, you do not need to spend that much.. pretty pictures are, belive it or not, actually much more demanding in that respect. Photometry of variable stars (and that means even detecting and monitoring exoplanet transits !!! ) can be done with Canon 400D and 200mm lens (and the lens does not have to be very expensive - for up to $100 maximum you can get adequate one from ebay) on eq3 mount, all that will be well below $1000 mark.
For exoplanet observation with 400D and 180mm lens, have a look here:
http://brucegary.net/AXA/XO4/xo4.htm

[renormalised]

A good cheap mount for your camera could range anywhere from $399 (for an EQ3 with no drive motors) to $999 for a HEQ5 with not goto capability but with dual axis drives.

[rally]

Greg,

I think "Cheap Astrophotography" is an oxymoron as others have already suggested.
But that does depend a lot on what you want to achieve and what quality or level of results you will be happy with.

My advice would be that the real cost can be caused by the losses incurred in making the transition from "cheap" to "adequate" (whatever they may end up being for you)
No matter what happens you have to buy adapters, brackets, connectors, power supplies, software, computer systems etc etc
However all your gear and all these unforeseen extras dont transfer as you move along or change direction and so that is where "cheap" can become quite expensive
Good gear is usually quite saleable later on, cheap gear may not be, it is also not cheap if it fails to fulfil th purpose for which you bought it.

But having fun along the way is a worthwhile justification no matter what the expense - its all a balance.

Is there anyone else or local association you can mingle with to get a better idea before committing to anything ?

Good luck.

Cheers

[pmrid]

I think you hinted at possibly using film rather than digital camera gear. Why not? If you have the means to do so. But digital is probably less expensive in the long run when you consider the cost of special film, developing and so forth.
Why not start with a WebCam and get some practice doing planetary and lunar shots - usually short exposure and possible without guiding. From there you will almost certainly want to graduate to more sophisticated gear but of course by then it will be too late; you'll be thoproughly hooked and happy to mortgage the house again to buy the next bit of kit.
Peter

[MrB]

Nothing wrong with a DSLR on a barndoor, see my sig ;)

[Moon]

Start off with just a DSLR. With a bit of skill you could snag an APOD (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090818.html) :thumbsup:

If and when you get hooked, get the EQ5 Pro mount from Andrews for $1299.

Also you might enjoy to read "Digital SLR Astrophotography" by Michael Covington.

[EcoRI]

Thanks to everyone for your advice (too many names to mention).
I was going to post this last night, but the sky cleared up so I got out there for a view.

Thanks again, I wish I had have joined this forum when I first bought my telescope, its great to find out that there are so many keen am astronomers! Not only that, the amount of information here keeps me reading for days on end.

Thanks again for everyones advice.

Cheers,
Greg

[Barrykgerdes]

You want cheap astro photography. Try this
First download free programs PHD and DSS and get the hang of operating them.
Next download TheGimp for processing your pictures (unless you already have photo shop).

Use a cheap digital camera that can give multiple time exposures time exposures.

Place camera on the ground pointing high in the sky. Take 40 or 50 frames at 20 second length with a 50mm lens setting. Cover the lens and take a batch of similar exposures to be used as darks.

Stack the pictures in DSS and stretch (process) in TheGimp and see what you can get.

I saw this done last Saturday night and the results are surprising!

When you have mastered the art of processing etc. Try piggybacking the camera on a polar mounted tracking scope. This will allow longer exposures say 50/60 secs and also (optical) zooming the camera to take a smaller field on subjects you like to select.

Master this and then you will be hooked and the price of real equipment will no longer matter because you will just have to have it.

Barry;);)

[bojan]

And, you will know exactly what you really want and/or need.
Instead of just spending money based on rule-of-thumb advice, you will know how to spend it wisely, having in mind the particular purpose and required performance of the equipment, without un-necessary overkill.
At the end, you will save a lot in a long run, and still achieve your goals, at optimal cost.

[Geoff45]

You can't choose both: you can have good or you can have cheap.

[bojan]

That is not true.
Expensive is not necessarily good.. or useful.
Cheap is not necessarily bad..
The point is to KNOW what you are buying. And to buy at optimal price.
Otherwise you are wasting your money... that could be used more efficiently elsewhere.

[Paul Haese]

You can bypass the digital area and go with film. It is still available in pro shops. Use the electronics for guiding and mount control and film with your SLR and you will get nice images that way too.

Biggest purchase you want to make is buying the mount. A mount such as an EQ6 is probably the lowest capacity you want to go with. It is reliable and will give good guiding with a guide scope and camera for at least an hour each time.

As for film you will need something pretty fast but with low grain. Yes film can still be done and relatively cheaply too.

If you want to go the whole digital route though, it as Rally has suggested is an oxymoron that cheap astrophotography exists. 3-5 grand is a good starting point. If you have been into astronomy for a while you already have the passion, you just need to decide what level of imaging you want to get to and when.

[EcoRI]

Thanks once again for all the feedback.

Hopefully in the future my knowledge will grow and I will be able to offer a newbie to iceinspace some advice as many have done for me (all my posts so far have been questions).

Cheers,
Greg

[Inmykombi]

Hi Greg,

I also have become interested in basic Astrophotography.
I have no money for expensive equipment and have concentrated on imaging the Moon with some really good results for the equipment I use.
I only have a hand held digital camera ( Canon ) and an adaptor that screws onto the eyepiece and that also holds the digital camera in a manner that it "looks" into the eyepiece.

This method is called AFOCAL method and isnt everyones cup-of-tea, but I have had great fun with it and the all up cost of the camera and second hand 4.5 inch telecope and the adaptor was $350.00

I have included some images taken with this method to show you how easy and cheap it is to get involved.
Some of the quality is lost when I upload to the Web ( I havent worked out how to keep a good size and image quality yet.) But you will get an idea what is possible.


Good luck.

Geoffro.

[bojan]

Geoff, those are very good images.. did you stack them with Registax?

Greg, since it seems we are located very close (7km, I am in Mt Waverley) feel free to drop in at any time, I am always happy to help with those things..

[g__day]

Start off maybe learning with a friend from a star party. Buddy up and learn from them. Once you have the basics mastered - rather than buy low end gear consider instead renting time on a professional level gear in Chile.

Jase tried this out a several months ago with stunning results. Strange as that may seem - its probably the cheapest and most cost effective way to progress in this field. It's a very costly hobby to start - you can easily drop $9K - $12K, whereas learning from a friend for a few weeks / months then buying time on a 20" RCOS on a PME with professional filters and a lab grade CCD might end up costing you less than $50 for professional grade shots of DSOs.

[Barrykgerdes]

Here is the result of the simple astro photography I suggested. It is not great but still better than I was ever able to do with film. The camera was propped up to point at the galaxy centre.

[EcoRI]

Thanks for the images Barry and Geoffro.

Thats the type of path I need to take now due to cost limitations, I would be best to upgrade my crummy old 114mm newtonian before I shell out huge sums on photography equipment. Both of those methods seem to be what I'm going to go for.

g__day, your right, I should join on of the groups here in Melbourne to learn more about it.

Thanks Bojan for the offer, I live in Clayton so as long as you dont mind me leaching your brain for information then that would be great, especially during the warmer months with a clearer sky. I got into astronomy by myself and I'm planning on doing a few trips to the Mt Dandenongs in Spring/Summer to get away from all this surburban light, the more the merrier I say, especiallly when they exceed my knowledge :thumbsup:


Thanks again,
Greg

[bojan]

I used to organise star-gazing parties for my (now former) workmates, on John's Hill ( Melway 124 K11). Also on one occasion, couple of people from this forum were present as well, and it was a great experience. Sometimes I go there on photo-safari :-)
This is public place, a lookout, but not very crowded, and significantly less light polluted than Mt Waverley (definitely not a really dark site).
Perhaps I will try to organise something again next month or later. If I do, I will post the announcement here.

There is another place, on Mt Martha (Briars), where some people are gathering over weekends (it is a private property, so invitation and/or announcement is required. Unfortunately I was never there (always something more important happened on those weekends), however I intend to be there on first occasion.

[DavidU]

I'm going to have a look at Johns hill, looks good on the map

[Lumen Miner]

If you have an slr, you only need a tripod to start taking pics.

The pictures you can take from a static tripod would be,
The Milky way
Star Trails
Wide field shots of deep space
Wide field shots of the planets
Open clusters

Stacking of images is the real key, to not having great mount with tracking.
Unfortunatley you would need a dslr, or have your images converted to cd.

I would advise, buy a cheapish dslr. A Canon 350d will only set you back $400. It will allow you to do alot of things.


Some people would think it a waste of time, not buying the full kit straight away. However after a couple of weeks with a dslr, no tracking mount, and only a sky full of stars, I can happily say I am still having a blast....
You can buy small tracking mounts for under $200, or you can build your own "barndoor" tracking unit (which I am trying).

You can purchase adapters which will mount your dslr / slr to a scope. These will let you take short exposures of the moon, jupiter etc.
You would need a tracking mount to do deep space stuff....


Sorry, I ramble a tad, hope that helps a bit....

[Inmykombi]

Hi,
I didn't use registax. All images are single images and they were then added to a single image via Paint Shop Pro.

Loads of fun in doing it too I might add.

Geoffro.

[EcoRI]

Thanks for the information Mitchell, dont worry I ramble as well, at least yours is informative :thumbsup:

Thanks as well to Bojan for the barndoor link. I'm going to construct one of those soon. Also, if there are any viewing nights that you plan on organising in the near future, please inform those of us in the SE of Melbourne. I would really like observing with others, not only for the knowledge gained, but also for a bit of rambling :D

Thanks again to everyone for their advice.

Cheers,
Greg