View Full Version here: : Why do you get Up Set?
13-08-2009, 08:42 AM
Debate is stifled because of this problem. Some threads are closed
because certain subjects are banned from the forums... even if what
essentially is being said is fact, seems people cant face what is the
truth. I hate seeing comments All Blacks thrashed by the Wallabies
when in fact it maybe true... it cuts to my heart like someone hearing
what they believe in being picked apart. BUT that thread would not
be closed becuase of the pain I might feel.
When topics cut over the line... we live in fear we wont be hurting
anyones feelings or beliefs. If the topic is a clean debate that is
just speaking fact, why cant the discussion be spoken from all sides.
Is it the fear of transperancy??? we cant debate truth because some
of us just cant handle the truth. If the thread touched a raw nerve
of the owner/moderator he should of close the thread at the first post.
And dont blame the discussion of members involved.
We should stop talk about eating red meat, because it makes the vegans
feel ill. Intelligent people can be soooooo sensitive.
The problem is not the subject, but how deep you go into it.
And Yeah!!!! blah...blah...about religion and politics.... I've read blab.
I understand the point you're making, Rob, and agree that as adults we should all be capable of rational and fair debate across all subject matter.
Unfortunately, religion is one of those areas where things tend to go pear-shaped. I guess it's just the very nature of the subject matter, being central or core to some people's very being.
And as for debating what is or is not the'truth'? Well...that's about as subjective an argument as you can get. The problem with the truth is, everyone has a version of it!!:lol: Especially where politics and religion are concerned.
13-08-2009, 09:10 AM
We understand how you feel Rob.
It's a very touchy subject though.
We all have our own views on it, but in the interests of keeping the peace it's best left unsaid.
13-08-2009, 09:21 AM
What is so "unbelievable" about a group of people practicing their religion (in a peaceful manner), that it deserves a thread on IceInSpace (with a purple unhappy emoticon as a thread icon, to boot)?
13-08-2009, 09:32 AM
Countdown to this threads closure........10....9....8....7... .6....5.... ;)
This is a time honoured debate which has raged on the internet from day one. CoombellKid, while I hear what your saying, at the the end of the day we are all at the mercy of what he/she who runs the forums permits. There is no free speech. It's up the to forum owner/moderators to decide what goes and what doesn't, and we just have to live with it even if we don't agree with it. Afterall, by signing up we agreed to the terms and conditions, even though we may not have read it. ;)
Time to move on....
13-08-2009, 09:43 AM
We get upset because it's in our nature. We've been acting irrationally/emotionally forever and I can't see that changing for a very long time, if ever. A glance through history shows us repeating the same mistakes time and again. Unfortunately our nature is incompatible with our burgeoning technological expertise and I suspect our species will not survive for too much longer. Cheery thoughts for a Thursday morning :)
13-08-2009, 10:36 AM
I don’t think that debate is stifled at all.
Having a quick Google of the word, I read that debate is defined as a formal, regulated process that has a frame work of rules and guidelines for its conduct.
I suspect that the discussion of controversial topics (which eventually lead to the need for moderator intervention) do not conform to those ideals, leading to a real risk of some posts becoming personal, rude, offensive, etc.
In most controversial posts, I don’t think that I have ever seen posters from either camp cross the dividing line to take residence on the other side. Often it seems, people simply dig in and just shout their views louder and louder with little evidence of accommodating the other side?
13-08-2009, 10:43 AM
Nothing it would seem. It was the discussion/debate that followed that
was deemed offensive/off topic/breaking the rules.
13-08-2009, 10:54 AM
So I guess debate on online forums, need to implement a bell of
sorts to ring when your times up :lol:
Unfortunately the reality is Truth and everything that going along with it
in the end is the victom. So how can you get to the truth/be enlighten/
learn/inspire/be inspired without discussion and for the matter debate?
We all know what happens when you bottle things up or stifle discussion,
in the end it just wants to get out. It will become more brutish the more
it is stifled. Thats human nature :thumbsup:
13-08-2009, 10:59 AM
History is written by the historians what is the truth will never been known.
As intellectuals we must access assimilate and disgard the mountain of data we are subjected too daily as too it's validity and worth.
As a PS I'm a six foot mushroom the amount of BS I listen too has made me grow physically but not mentally.
Everything is transient
The only really important thing in life is the love of family and friends
However peoples point of veiw on certain subjects can be dynamically opposed so keep those subjects that could definitely cause animosity closed
13-08-2009, 12:15 PM
The biggest debate killer is religion. And politcal systems, where international diplomacy is concerned.
Any topic can be discussed, but when it comes to religion, "people's beliefs must be respected".
So you won't hear an American president stating a fact such as: "Most suicide terrorists are muslims". Or "Communism is a repressive regime".
Religion and political systems are just topics, like euthanisia or abortion, but even the truth will cause an reaction strong enough to shut it down.
As for forums, as long as the discussion is civil, on-topic and not breaking any rules, then there is reason the thread should be closed.
13-08-2009, 12:34 PM
Why do you include a falsehood amongst your 'facts'? I won't correct you or we will have another locked thread. :rolleyes:
13-08-2009, 02:58 PM
I thought this was a forum on amateur astronomy, not a philosophical debating society.
Mike locks threads because his good name and everything he owns is potentially on the line.
If this was my site I would do the same, regardless.
13-08-2009, 03:42 PM
We are imperfect emotional beings. It clouds our thoughts, our logic and our behaviour. It follows therefore that any attempt to discuss a topic that has different understandings by multiple people will result in some form of debate. Being human means we may sometimes become emotional ie angry, sad, obnoxious or whatever when something disagrees with our knowledge of the topic. Sometimes human beings then let the emotion cloud impair their judgement so much, that it transforms into physical actions like fist waving, or violence.. Ahh to be the human animal..
Would life be any better if we were all from Vulcan and could debate like Spock, or would life become dull and boring? I wonder what heaven is like...
These questions and more, answered for you when you get there..
13-08-2009, 03:45 PM
... if you want to believe in that sort of thing...... ;)
I agree with all who suggest that it is a taboo subject - in whole. No-one from either side of the divide (and that's what it is) should feel that they have more of a right to have their say than the other. Same can be said that neither party should feel that they are in the "moral right" at the expense of the other.
People swing on politics - it changes for most people throughout their years depending on circumstance. I know plenty of old labor voters who've done very well for themselves later in life only to take on (not surprisingly) a very liberal stance when it suit... and vice-versa. They normally don't on religion - it's engrained in a persons psyche and usually doesn't change as time goes on. No-one wins trying to convince the other that they are wrong.
13-08-2009, 03:52 PM
I guess we have choice......
13-08-2009, 03:57 PM
What we need here is an 'open drivel' forum where users can vent on what ever happens to annoy them today :)
[I'm in a woodworking forum that has one of these, you need to give a password to access it - same password for everyone - so you can't then complain that you find someones post annoying/insulting/irrelevant.. Most of the post are in this one are pretty innocuous. There's also a separate password protected forum that is no holds barred, illegal actions excepted, no PC items there!]
13-08-2009, 04:02 PM
There are worse things in life than hearing about the "All Blacks being thrashed by the Wallabies"...examples include clouds and rain LOLL
To answer the question, I get upset because Mebourne is cloudier than Venus and colder than Pluto.
13-08-2009, 04:40 PM
Hey it is discrimatory to under estimate people pain :whistle::whistle::whistle:
btw, I'm totally cut up about Mortlock being sidelined :P
13-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Because the subject is in the "General Chat" part of the forum. Where
things non-astronomy can be discussed.
13-08-2009, 05:01 PM
arguing about religion will never get to the truth, religion was invented to hide the truth.
:) Awwwwww spot on Trev now if only everyone thought just like you we would be at peace :thumbsup:;)
If there is a discussion that i dont like or agree on i just leave it end of story :D:P
IM HAPPY ;)
That's about the size of it, Jen.
You gotta know which battles are worth fighting....and which ones are just about who can shout longest and loudest.
13-08-2009, 06:03 PM
The problem with that analogy is you assume that every discussion on
any topic everyone is beating their chest. The same arguement put
forth by certain elements of society "if you cant find the answer it must
be the all powerful one".... end of discussion. I dont belive for a minite
that that is true.
13-08-2009, 06:05 PM
Considering this thread is really going nowhere fast, I thought I'd just pop in and give my completely useless interjection...
Weekends are awesome.
Beer is among the ten greatest achievements of mankind.
Red meat is good for your soul.
Duracell batteries are inferior to Energizers
Cloudless nights make me smile
Lizards have a tendency to bite if you try and handle them when they are eating.
That is all..
13-08-2009, 06:07 PM
I wish that could be the case, but unfortunately it isn't. I wonder how
many complaints were actually presented to the thread killer of
"Unbelievable" before he took the action he did... considering the title
and content of the first post in that thread.
13-08-2009, 06:10 PM
That fine :thumbsup: your welcome to your opinion, in the end it is just you
No I don't. That's you making an assumption about what I mean.
I know what I mean, thanks. If you've misunderstood then that's your issue.
I was commenting on Jen's approach to argument/debate she doesn't like or agree with.
I just feel that every issue needs to be taken on its own merits and individuals need to decide whether the issue is important enough to them or not before wading in. And they need to make a judgement call on whether the other person/s is genuinely seeking to arrive at some reasoned, fair-minded destination or just engaging in an argument for argument's sake...which is pretty lame behaviour.
And in the end...anything you say is just your opinion too. Based on whatever experience and intellect you've acquired over how many years you've been alive.
Cheers....and that's about enough of this naval gazing thread for me:lol::P
13-08-2009, 06:35 PM
I believe that is very true, but unfortunately many do not understand it.
Just to push my barrow a bit further, evolution is of the same root as religion. Think about it!
All the best.:thumbsup:
13-08-2009, 06:58 PM
The only real truth about the truth is that there is no such thing as the truth, ain't that the truth :P.
Humans of all flavours seem pre-disposed to finding the truth whether that be religion, science or the great flying spaghetti monster and we are all just as smug as each other knowing we have found the "truth" . Me, I found enlightenment the first day I realised I was as mad as a meat axe:D.
13-08-2009, 07:09 PM
:) :) :)
13-08-2009, 07:09 PM
great flying spaghetti monster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOKUdMr95Ig&feature=related)
13-08-2009, 07:18 PM
I did not know that about lizards. I shall be more careful next time I feel the need to annoy a reptile. Mark this thread as educational. :thumbsup:
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -
-- Benjamin Franklin
Close as I get to a religious opinion.
13-08-2009, 07:20 PM
Awesome... Simply Awesome.
13-08-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm glad I left this thread open. It's been full of great insights. :rolleyes:
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