NOT HAPPY Here is how my scope arrived Thanks to TNT

[Davekyn]

How would you feel if your optics arived like this:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Pic1.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Pic2.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Pic4.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Pic3.jpg

No other comments at this stage:sadeyes:

[iceman]

Man that's just terrible.
Have you taken the scope out yet? Is it damaged, or is it just the box?

If the scope is damaged, I'm sure you've rang the shop already but they should have insurance with the couriers for exactly this type of thing.

I'm hopeful for you that it just means delays (in getting a new one to you) , and nothing more.

[[1ponders]]

Ow!! That really hurts. :sad:

I hope you have also sent the images to TNT!

[Davekyn]

Yea...I am finding it hard to wind down...I sent photos to the supplier (which I hold nothing against!)...I am waiting to here back from TNT...aparantly no one like to handle fragile boxes and its like waving a red flag at a bull to some of the drivers.

Anyways...GSO make a tough scope...the external parts all seem intact...I am yet to inspect the internals & optics...I guess I was already thinking about how to handle the collimating side of things...LOL

OH WELL......Time for my daughters birthday...will worry about this crap later...wish me luck when it comes to testing it all later.

[AdrianF]

Not all that long ago if a package arrived like that the manager would have called to arrange a meeting to open the package together to examine the contents. It happened to me in Mt Isa about 20 years ago I had ordered a new TV from Townsville and had a call from the manager of the transport company to explain what had happened to my package. We opened the package together and sure enough there was a hole in the back of the TV and the end of the tube was broken off, appologies and within 48 hours a new tv was delivered by the manager.

Adrian

[Gama]

My Wife worked for TNT for 11 years.
She told me plain and simple, NEVER use TNT for delicate or important things.
The damage rate is huge and complaints fall on deaf ears.
Things go missing and as you see in the images, get damaged.
So NEVER use TNT if you can.

Theo.

[Shawn]

Damn..that sucks... Try have a good birthday celebration anyway...

[peeb61]

Mate they probably would have had a ton of other fragile freight on top of yours.....

Hope all turns out well.

Paul

[Davekyn]

Well no it's not all right...turns out all that other fragile crap on top or what eva ya reackon it is...has dinted my brand new scope. On second thoughts, I now wished I had bought from Bintel...then again if there using TNT forget it.

ANYWAYS.......................Mate. ..I am please to say that after blowing my horn on the piss quality service from TNT...I got a chance to do a quick test. MY GOD THE GSO instructions are tottaly &^%$ED...In fact dont follow them! you will end up pulling the thing apart and spending another hour putting back the way you thought in the first place!

Finally after we worked out what went were and discovering the big Dent down the side of an otherwise perfectly good looking scope...outside it went to see what else was &^%$ED!

Pointing the scope straight up at the zenith and messing around with the finder scope I then found the moon. I looked through one of the 8 Ep's, I grabbed randomly and was imediately blown away...I messed around with the 2XED Barlow ect......................& was getting carried away with time I did not have...I checked out on open cluster and was blown away again and knew it was time to imediately pack up as I would still be out at 5am in the morning when I should just be getting up for work!!!!

As for collimation...I was able to check out the pointers of crux and make out the doubles but when IN/OUT of foucs I would get more of an oval shape with the speider of centre...I would also get that little "Q" shape happening with the stars...like a little tail comming out of the bottom of each star of the double that makes each star look like a Q........

Despite the need for collimation...The perfectic state of the Box and "DENT" in my Telescope...I will be sure to have some good times with this scope. As well as the collimation tools, I intend to set up a red dot finder for some quick star hopping ectt........

I still intend do do a first light report...but will do it in a few days from now as I am back on shift for a whiles.

Thanks for listening to my rant.
Later
Dave........

[rally]

Dave,

Sorry to hear.
Unless you have taken specific insurance - they will say they are a common carrier and not responsible - claim it on you rinsurance. !

Its one of the reasons I always ask for all my items to be double boxed before they are shipped.

Its of no help if they are rammed with a forklift or squashed but it does tend to offer a little extra protection and usually puts the object of interest another 2 inches further away from harm !

Good luck

Rally

[GrahamL]

Hi dave

have you spoken to Lee about your scope ?.. I' m surprised you thinking of keeping it as is .. while I don't know for sure all the ins and outs of it i believe theres some measure of consumer protection regarding being sent defective purchases .. this is the seller and transport companys problem not yours my friend .

good luck graham

[Davekyn]

Thanks graham,
Heres the thing...Because it's me...&...I have have waited so loing for somthing like this...& given from my investigations that TNT really Dont Care about issues like this...& that most people seem to be complacant (espesialy in Australia)...It's just accepted practice these day.

I can live with the scope and its dent...But as for TNT thinking everyone is going to turn a blind eye...Not happening. The guys over at Cloudy nights, seem to be lapping up the topic...So I'm hopping the global part of TNT Exspress will have to at least pull there socks up or even bet, they simply treat people according to the way people want to be treated. Always better service over sees in this regard.

It sucked what happened & apparently happens all the time with TNT...But I expected that I would end up with a dint here and there...I just wanted to be the one to do it:)

Later Graham...I look foward to the chance I get to really look through this scope.;)

[OneOfOne]

Makes you wonder why they chose the name :confuse3:

[erick]

Dave, a "dent" worries me. Could it be enough to mess up the mechanical alignment of the top and bottom ends of the scope? Probably not and the adjustment you have on the primary mirror should allow you to correct for any small change. Perhaps run a straight edge along the side of the scope opposite the dent and check it hasn't become a large silver banana :scared:

If not, then everything may be just fine.

Eric :sadeyes:

[rogerg]

TNT and Toll are my most hated couriers for reasons of this kind of thing, rudeness/inpatients/laziness with respect to delivery, and cost.

Not good.

[Ian Robinson]

I would demand a new replacement telescope IMMEDIATELY. No ifs , no buts.

It is not your problem it is TNT's and the dealer's problem and the dealer should arrange collection and pay for shipping of the telescope back to the shop NOT YOU.

[White Rabbit]

Wow that sucks, I'd have held the delivery guy hostage until I had a nice new scope in my hands. I might have cut a few fingers off, just to show I was seriouse.

[matt]

That's just plain ordinary.

Get it replaced. Pure and simple.

Get on the phone, tell them what's happened and what your expectations are.

If they don't offer to replace it immediately tell them you're willing to take the matter to the Office of Fair Trading.

It's not your problem, Dave.

That's if the damage is enough of a worry to you.

[Striker]

I work for Toll Fast as a sub contractor courier driver and I can tell you they treat every parcel with respect....I cant say the same for the rest of the Toll Name....such as Toll Ipec and others that trade under the Toll Name.

Sorry to here what has happened Dave....get it replaced.

[Davekyn]

Thanks for the condolences guys,
The Dint is more like a hale dint where the box was ripped open. The fact is, the supplier reckons that this sort of thing happens all the time & that he has seen worse…Mind you…I am not exactly happy to hear this kind of response & IMO does not make it acceptable.

I have just started a new job and am going through a hell of a lot of stress…Given the response of the supplier on nothing back from TNT, I am just feeling completely deflated. I need all my strength at the moment to deal with things at work and home.

Like Eric said…I need to assess the alignment of things…So if your out there and Listening Eric…allow me to give you a quick run down:

I can live with the Hail Dent…BUT…I thought exactly like you did…what reaction would the other components have to such a blow that was strong enough to dent in the first place. The dent looks quite sharp which is much better than a long/elongated one…ANYWAYS…

I used the laser collimator…(SIMPLY) by placing in focuser tube and engaging it…I then adjusted the three screws on the secondary as it already seemed lined up nicely…By playing with the secondary adjustment screws I was able to line the beam up with the “O ring sticker” already on primary mirror. (I TAKE IT THAT IT’S OK TO HAVE THAT STICKER THERE PERMANATELY??)

When I got the beam exactly in the middle of the O sticker the light seem to split into two dots…which on closer inpection on a wall…seem to have 2 very small dots?........yadda yadda………..The return beam was just a little off the led emitter on the collimator…
And this is were I was wondering…If this is the main factor of adjusting the primary screws to line up the return beam exactly on to the emitter???

I just have not messed with the primary adjustments…mainly because…It looks like a pain in the ass haing to adjust three screws with every turn needing me to get up from a bent position to look in what direction I am forcing the beam…up/down/up/down/up/down…if you know what I mean.

After this little experimenting…I found I got a much better result (Venus Looks Fantastic!!!! Never have I seen such a well rounded shape and the size was really big!) With bright stars having more of a circular shape in & out of focuse with the spider much more central…but then… guess what happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......T he ^%&$ing Focuser started to slip during my start tests…….There is absolutely no grip on the damn thing when I turn the focusing knobs.

When the scope is in the up right position it seems to behave itself…only just!!! But as soon as you move the scope…the thing is loose as a bucket of water???????

Now that has really got me worried…might of happened due to me lifting the tube to carry in and out of the house…I just put my arms either side and lift with the tube resting on my gut as I steadily walk in and out…feels ok doing it…but I guess I must not of locked the focuser tube and something went wrong???

Anyways…I am just about short of tears with this hole thing and have to get some sleep for work…I need to keep focused at work so will just log back in here afterwards with maybe some suggestions.

I am willing to cut my losses I guess and buy maybe a better focuser??? Any suggestions…I am really sick of dealing with the supplier…they make me feels as if something is wrong with me.
You guys have been great! I am going to work through this and when I am done, I am going to get more people involved in this great hobby…I know I am learning heaps thanks to you guys…I just can’t find any place here in Toowoomba like a club or even anyone interested to help with collimation. There was once a little group that gathered to star gaze from the UNI…but I don’t think it’s operating anymore…or it may be a select group?

I think I am going to have to drive to Brissy and attend a star party and politely ask for a quick lesson on collimation or just have someone look my scope over.

Later guys:
Dave

[erick]

Big breaths time. Don't panic. Sounds like it is progressing nicely to me!

Some answers next......

[erick]

Q. …By playing with the secondary adjustment screws I was able to line the beam up with the “O ring sticker” already on primary mirror. (I TAKE IT THAT IT’S OK TO HAVE THAT STICKER THERE PERMANATELY??)

A. Yes - and you'll find even if you wash the mirror it won't come off! That sticker falls in the shadow of the secondary mirror - you aren't using that bit of your primary mirror.

[erick]

Q?. When I got the beam exactly in the middle of the O sticker the light seem to split into two dots…which on closer inpection on a wall…seem to have 2 very small dots?........yadda yadda………..

A. Maybe, yes, whatever - these are really cheap little red lasers. The output is seldom a nice round dot. Doesn't matter, particularly.

[erick]

I just have not messed with the primary adjustments…mainly because…It looks like a pain in the ass haing to adjust three screws with every turn needing me to get up from a bent position to look in what direction I am forcing the beam…up/down/up/down/up/down…if you know what I mean.

Comment:- You should be able to insert the laser in the focusser so the hole in the side of the laser body points towards the end of the scope. (It's a GSO laser with a 45 deg shiny surface that the laser shines back onto??) Then you can see the return spot when you ate looking from the primary mirror end of the scope, therefore can twiddle those primary mirror collimating screws while you watch exactly what the return spot does - get it to where the brightest spot disappears back down the hole it originally came out of!

[Davekyn]

Here is a picture of it:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/gs_collimator.jpg
I will have to re-read that and try after work...any ideas what has gone wrong with the microfocuser?
Someone gave me this link:
http://www.backyardvoyager.com/gsofocuser.html
Only thing is...that link looks like its for making it more slippery...I need grip?

Cheers
Dave

[erick]

After this little experimenting…I found I got a much better result (Venus Looks Fantastic!!!! Never have I seen such a well rounded shape and the size was really big!)

Comment:- Have another look tomorrow while Venus is as high in the sky as you can see it - so early after sunset. Venus is in a gibbous phase now and looks like attached. perhaps use your filter(s) to reduce the glare to see the shape as best as the seeing conditions allow.

[erick]

T he ^%&$ing Focuser started to slip during my start tests…….There is absolutely no grip on the damn thing when I turn the focusing knobs.

Comment:- See my answer in other thread - easily fixed, this one, I think.

[erick]

I just can’t find any place here in Toowoomba like a club or even anyone interested to help with collimation.

Comment:- Want to fly me up for a weekend! :P Just kidding. OK, Toowoomba then. Come on you South Queenslanders - budding and enthusiastic amateur astronomer in need here! Who can help Dave?

[erick]

Great, that helps.

Yes, just put the laser in the focusser so that open window points towards the primary mirror end of the scope. Then you can watch the return spot move as you adjust the primary collimating screws.

Yes, just play with that "tension" screw on the focusser - I reckon that will solve your problem. Don't go pulling your focusser apart!

Cheers
Eric

[Davekyn]

OHHH…I Understand now with the Laser!!!...It’s a bit like that with me…sorry…I also worked out which of the two little knobs was the tension and did as you said…& guess what…problem solved there too!!! (I had both either lossened or tight + did not know what was what until I had that link to see the descriptive parts.
There really ought to be better instructions…the wobble on the focuser can play havoc with collimating as well.
I’ll try for a better collimation tonight (I'll tweak the primary)…I am nearly ready for first light…Fitting it all in my car will be my next testJ

Oh yea…About Venus…what you say about glare is true…I tired one of my polarizer’s but it did not make that much difference…I take it somehow the two should be used together…one of them screws in, but then I am unsure how to attach the other filter? Any suggestions?

I understand that without the glare I will see even more wow factor…I will however try it again.

Thanks for all your help so far.
Have a good day all!
Dave.

[erick]

One polarising filter will screw into the other. You need to be able to turn one relative to the other so screw one into your eyepiece (it's the 1.25" filters you have?). Don't do it up tight (in fact never screw a filter up tight - they just might be difficult to get off again. You just have to get the light to pass through the filter so a bit loose in the threads for visual observing is fine.) Now screw in the other filter a turn or two. now you should be able to turn the bottom filter relative to the top one.

In fact before you start, hold one in one hand and one in the other and look through them both at the moon. Now turn one of them around in a circle. See what happens. Now you know what to do. I usually have them both screwed on, then with the scope pointing at the Moon or Venus, hold the eyepiece just above the focusser so you can see the unfocussed spot, then adjust the lower filter until I have darkened the view sufficiently, then put the eyepiece in, focus up and observe.

Unlike a single filter, polarising filters are designed to work as a pair - it's called "crossed polars".

(Before you all jump on me, yes our polarising sunglasses are a single polar, but they work on incoming polarised light - eg. reflections off water or car bonnet. Ain't no polarised visible light coming from extra-terrestrial stuff, is there?)

[Davekyn]

Back from work and at this stage I have tommorow off!!!...Erick, your a champ mate...I got just about everthing worked out because of your patients, and expertease of course. You have explained everything spot on!

At this stage I have tommorow of so plan to do a trial run in my little Hyudi XL (94) Hatch back & head out a few km. As you know the moon is out, but I will do it to see how the scope travels. Will collimate before I go and check it on arrival at the proposed Dark site. Will aslo try those polarizing filters...I seem to have got it working just the way you described.

Thanks again for all your help.
Dave

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Dave,

I know its probably a moot point now, but if you had to sign for this item, I would have rejected it and got a new one sent up. If it was just left at your house, then this probably doesnt apply.

Taking the item from the courier implies that you are accepting it as is, and therefore its harder to backtrack and get a replacement or rectification from the carrier.

By rejecting the delivery, more flags are raised at TNT and therefore the supplier and you have more chance of a replacement being shipped without problem.

I know its hard to do when you have the "new scope" sitting there waiting to be used, but in the long run, if you arent happy with its condition when it turns up, dont receive it!

Anyhow, I hope you can get retribution and dont have to live with a dented scope, if it shipped from Andrews Comms, I would bet my bottom dollar that Lee wouldnt be too happy about this situation either, considering how many telescopes he ships via courier, although his hands may be tied, if, like I said, you signed for & accepted the package from the driver in that condition.

Good Luck.

Chris

[AlexN]

too true Chris... I wouldnt sign for a box containing anything fragile unless the box looked perfect...

Sorry to hear about it Dave, but as has been mentioned, I would definitely be sitting down and having a long hard think about how much it *##$es you off, and if that comes to be a large amount, the I'd be demanding a replacement... If you can live with it, then hey.. Congrats on the new scope :)