Accesories for 18" UC

[shahgazer]

Hi Guys,

Ok, I'm spoiling myself here, but looks like I'm gonna get myself an 18" UC Obsession.. :P together with the ServoCat and Argo Navis :evil:

There some recommendations at the website regarding some accesories which I should be getting as well, and among others is the barlow-laser collimator.

Do you guys think I should buy it as well? How often does one needs to collimate for truss tube scopes? and refering to the 18" UC, is it a necessity? Or shall I get elsewhere? Reason is since the order is coming in way from US, the shipping cost is incredibly expensive to this part of the world, and I would look for options in getting as many stuff as possible in one shipment, without breaking my bank!

The rest of the accesories which I decided to include are:
1.Dew Heater
2.Nylon Shroud
3.Travel Case
4.Paracorr

Any comments? :rolleyes:

[gbeal]

Congrats Shah, nothing beats a BIG scope, I have never been happier with my homebrew 16".
Is it possible to get the scope locally, someone like Peter Read at SDM? While I am the first to buy offshore, maybe at least see what can be made locally, and the relative costs.
The dew heater(s) can be sourced locally. I bought a secondary dew heater from Peter just last month. With "normal" dew heaters I use the DewNot ones from Scopestuff in the US, and this is my suggestion.
A Paracorr can be found either at Bintel, or sometimes used on the Buy Sell forums.
Gary

[gary]

Hi Shah,

Thanks for the post. Gary Kopff here from Wildcard Innovations. Thanks
for purchasing an Argo Navis with your 18 UC.

To get the very best out of the scope, you should spend a couple of minutes
collimating it each time you set it up. This is true for all Dobs and the 18 UC
is no exception.

Some of the old hands are most proficient at collimating by just using a de-focused
star. The laser collimators have become ubiquitous and it is not uncommon to
see many truss pole Dob owners performing a quick laser collimation to align the
secondary and to get either the primary in alignment or at least good enough
alignment that they then tweak it whilst observing a de-focused star.

As many of the old hands will testify, the laser collimator is not necessarily the
be all and end all of collimating your scope, but it can be a handy accessory all
the same and most would recommend you definitely grab it.



The above are all must-have accessories. The scope itself is incredibly light
but the Air Transport Association (ATA) travel case I find quite heavy and
awkward to carry. It is incredibly strong and I would absolutely use it whenever
I put the scope on a plane or stored it in the garage, but I would probably
just take the scope on its own and leave the case at home if only going
a couple of hours out of town to observe.

You are going to love this scope. When the budget allows it, grab yourself
a 13mm Ethos eyepiece to go with it. Simply amazing combination!

If you haven't seen them already, you might like to check out some photos
in my post here -
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25515

Greetings to you there in beautiful Malaysia. I see from the co-ordinates on your
signature that you are near K.L. Do you belong to an astronomy club there?
We'd be interested in hearing what the amateur astronomy scene is like in Malaysia.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[tnott]

Peter Read of SDM is now making his version of an UC scope, so I would contact him and see first. His scopes are beautifully crafted. Obsession is often a shorter wait though due to the fact that they keep optics in stock.

Truss tube scopes need to be 'tweaked' into collimation every time you set them up but it is really not a big deal when you have done it a few times (2 mins). At F4.2 you really need some good collimation tools (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=63,390,0,0,1,0 ) and well-corrected eyepieces (Nagler and Pentax) due to the steep angle of the cone of light. The Parracorr will correct for coma only so cheap widefields are out.

Secondary dew heaters are necessary for open type scopes - I think the Obsession UC comes with one standard. I would definitely get the travel case as you would have to pay for crating anyway.

Sounds exciting!:)

[shahgazer]

Hi Gary, certainly nice to have the Argo Navis as well. I've eyeing on it for several years now.



Ok, thanks for the advice. Since obviously the scope needs to get recollimate every session, I guess it is essential to have it in hand.



Your posting in the forum mentioned about the overall size for the virtual mirror box and the rocker summing up to 61cm x 61cm x 34.3cm (24"x24"x13.5") . Looks like it can easily fit in my Toyota Avanza backseat area! That is by putting it flat.

But do you think we could like standing it on its side? It is rigid enough? It might be able to save some more space. I can also probably place the groundboard elsewhere to reduce it's height further more. What do you think?




Ahh!! the Ethos!! :prey: . I am playing around with my budget and see where I can fit it. I'm kinda considering letting go the Travel Case with the Ethos. Most of my travelling for observation will be on the road (Malaysia is quiet a small country), so I was also considering of making a custom travel case locally. Still haven't decided though.




Yes, I'm pretty much near K.L. The sky from my housing area isn't great. Mag 4 at best. Need to travel away from the city for a descent dark sky. I do most of observation with the Mallincam Hyper Color and Mallincam B/W. Incredible camera for live viewing when using my 8 inch LX90 Meade. Just wonder how will I response when using it with the 18" UC !!

I am actively involved in giving talks and occasion public stargazing in the country. My personal website is at www.falakonline.net (http://www.falakonline.net) . Just click on the Gallery link, and you can have some idea on what we have here. Most telescope owners here are using standard SCT. There are some really good astrophotographers as well. The ATM trend here is still very very rare. And it is even rare to find a truss-tube telescope here! But overall, the public in Malaysia are pretty much enthusiast information on any astronomy news and technology.

Getting the 18" UC is part of my program for next year IYA outreach activities. Hope it can create some impact!

Regards,

[shahgazer]

The humidity level in Malaysia average around 70%. So, really hopes the dew heater ease out the wet condition. But, will the shroud helps to reduce the dew effect even more?

Just went to SDM website. :eyepop:wow, those are really nicely crafted telescopes!! Sure worth to consider. Thanks for the info.

Still waiting response from Dave about the shipping cost if I get the travel case.

Sure is an exciting time for me! My last scope (the 8"LX90) was bought in 2001..., and my 10" Dob in 1995 !! Time to upgrade! :thumbsup:

Regards

[CoombellKid]

Shah,

Not having owned an SDM but have had the opportunity to use a few up
to 30" and a couple of Obsessions 18" they are both beautiful instruments
and you cant go wrong with either... but in saying that when you see
both in the field, well I think aussies here will probably attest the SDM
is a work of craftman art!!!

I think you should have a look at Ptete and see what he can do for you

regards,CS

[Ian Robinson]

- Paracorr a must.

- and a bunch of 2" Lumicon Filters.

- digital setting circles (to help you find those faint fuzzies).

- an sturdy adjustable elevated viewing platform (better then using a ladder).

[coldspace]

Hi Shah,

You wait to see the live colour views with your Mallincam and your 18 incher compared to your 8 incher. I use my Mallincam hyper colour with a meade 12 inch 200R and the images are just mind blowing, so with over double the light grasp of the 12 incher the 18 incher should get Hickson 50 group of mag 19 - 20 ish galaxies at 56 seconds :eyepop: no problems. M51 will burn out your screen at 56 seconds using the 18 incher :lol:,Lookout cosmos here you come. Great idea with the servo-cat so you can use your video systems. Do you post on the Yahoo tech mallincam forums? make sure when you get it all up and running you post the results on the Mallincam forum. Have fun.

Matt.

[ausastronomer]

Hi,

I have used the Obsession 18" UC on several occasions and the first prototype 18" SDM UC Peter Read from SDM Telescopes produced, over 3 nights. Each under superb observing conditions at Coonabarabran. Gary Kopff from Wildcard Innovations and Andrew Murrell have also used them both. Consider my advise worth what it costs you, but at least take comfort from the fact that I have used them both, in addition to several other classic style Obsession and SDM telescopes.

Let me explain the origins of both scopes. John Hudek from Galaxy Optics in the US built himself a scope on the ultracompact design using a mirror cell as the virtual mirror box many years ago. That's where things sat with the concept for several years. John had a photograph of that scope on the homepage of his Galaxy Optics website for many years. Dave Kriege from Obsession Telescopes buys mirrors from John Hudek (amongst others) and got to thinking there may be a market for a scope based on John Hudek's design. Dave Kriege set about to improving the UC design based on maximising portability and transportability. He made a large number of innovative changes to John Hudeks' design and ended up with an improved scope. Dave is the first to acknowledge that John's UC scope was his inspiration. Peter Read who builds his classic style scopes based on the classic Obsession design, saw photographs of Dave's UC scope and figured he may as well do something similar, with his own improvements/modifications where he thought fit. The Obsession 18 UC is designed to be as light and tranportable and portable as possible and able to be rapidly assembled/dissassembled. The SDM UC is designed to be a compromise between portability/transportability and stability of the observing platform.

Let me say you will be very happy irrespective of which scope you buy, you can't make a bad decision here as they are both exceptional telescopes of outstanding quality.

Some of the differences between them:-

The most important is that the Obsession 18" UC uses a single plane plywood ring with the focuser fitted to a right angle accessory board and then a kydex light shield behind the focuser.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=34203

You can clearly see the single plane ring at the top of the scope in this photo. The kydex light baffle is not attached in the photograph. It just attaches to the ring with velcro.

The SDM UC uses a traditional type of Upper Cage Assembly (UCA) only it is a bit narrower than on a standard Obsession style scope. It is about 6 inches from top to bottom of the UCA.

The Obsession UC uses 6 thin poles all joined together at the top and they attach with 3 butterfly nuts to the UC ring. This makes them easy to transport. The SDM UC uses 8 standard sized poles that attach to the UCA in the traditional manner with camming clamps.

Both of the above differences make the Obsession 18 UC a little more portable than the SDM UC, but the SDM is more stable at the top end and a slightly better observing platform IMO. The Obsession UC flexes slightly when you drag it quickly in azimuth. The SDM is rock solid in every respect. It comes down to what is the most important issue to you, portability/tranportability or stability of the scope when you are observing.

I would expect you will get the Obsession 18 a bit faster than you will get the SDM UC 18. That is certainly the case with the classic style scopes. Whilst delivery of an Obsession 18 UC takes a lot longer than an Obsession Classic, delivery is still very fast for a custom made premium scope.

With the Obsession 18 UC your only choice of optics is an 18"/F4.2 mirror from James Mulherin at OMI. These are excellent optics. With the SDM UC you can select the mirror supplier from a list of premium mirror makers, including James Mulherin at OMI. Some will offer alternative F-Ratios as well, so you are not locked into an F4.2 scope only with SDM.

Something to consider is that because of the high number of scopes Obsession produce annually they cannot offer a scope in a non standard aperture, or F-ratio. SDM on the other hand being a small boutique manufacturer can build whatever you want. You may decide that a 16"/F4.5 or a 20"/4 is really what would suit your needs best. Peter Read can custom build either scope for you based on his ultra compact design. I will also add that Peter Read is a perfectionist and nothing leaves his shop that is not 100% perfect in every way.

In terms of accessories and options, anything you can have fitted to an Obsession UC you can also have fitted to an SDM UC, including Argo Navis and Servocat, which I recommend without hesitation. In fact because SDM are smaller they can offer some additional accessories not offered by Obsession, including the "UCA Dew Heater system" as opposed to just the Astrosystems "secondary" dew heater fitted to the Obsession.

I think you are wise in your choice of accessories. I would also order the Astrosystems barlowed laser collimater. Whilst you cannot collimate the telescope from scratch with this device alone, it saves an enormous amount of time once you have the scope properly set up and secondary and primary tilt are the only collimation adjustments required.

If you were to order the SDM UC I would also order the UCA Dew control system which includes the Thousand Oaks Dew controller, the Astrosystems secondary dew heater and dew heater straps for the finderscope, telrad and eyepiece. I would also get a 7 or 8x50 RACI finder fitted if it is not standard, in addition to a Telrad.

If you wish to attach a camera of any description to this scope for imaging purposes the SDM design is more solid in this respect IMO, although I am sure the Obsession UC would also hold a camera fine.

Cheers,
John B

[spacezebra]

Hi Shah

John B very detailed summary of the UC.

Shah - I can attest to the quality and the attention to detail of SDM scopes. When you get a minute - I'm #13 on the SDM scope site - I have a 20" UC in progress.

Argo - Yes
ServoCat - No

Cheers Petra d.

[JethroB76]

Petra, do you have any photos of an SDM UC?

[MarkN]

My only regret is that Dave Kriege has just emailed me to inform that it will cost US$1,500 to freight a 15" UC. Surface freight is only $100 less.

I calculated that after duty of 5% plus freight plus GST on goods and freight and duty it would cost close to $7,500. 50% more than base price.

Might as well think about a 16" from SDM for $8,000.

And I'd have to think a lot about that!

Good luck to you Shah.

Mark.

[shahgazer]

Hi John B,

Thank you very much for a very detail review/comparison. My main idea is to have a really portable/collapsible telescope. I need to find as much space in my car as i can.

I will certainly look further into the SDM scopes.

Regards.

[xstream]

For those that are interested, here is a few of pics of the proto-type of the SDM semi compact.

[shahgazer]

Just got reply from the shipping company. Apparently the shipping cost is the same with or without the Travel Case. They have refine the shipping method for 18" UC.

And if I were to get the Travel Case as well, then the total cost would be even higher! :scared:

Yikes! Time to revised some of the items!!

Maybe I can do without the travel case, or maybe I can get it done locally to save some cost.

What do you guys think about the wireless handpad? I looked at some of the photos, I believe the Argo Navis itself is wired to the Handpad, right? or did I see it wrong? :shrug:

If it is, then I don't see the logic to have the wireless handpad as it may always need to be close to the argo navis box? right? :shrug:

Appreciate if anyone can give some clearer description of the setup. :help:

and yes, I want the Ethos! :D

Thanks

[spacezebra]

Thanks John

I missed a few posts, thank you for posting the pics.

Cheers Petra d.

[xstream]

:thumbsup:

[ausastronomer]

The wireless handpad is a very worthwhile accessory but like most things it costs money.

You might want to consider downsizing your scope a fraction which will save you a little bit of money and greatly increase your storability/transportability.

I would contact Peter Read at SDM and enquire as to the cost of a 16"/F4 to F4.5 Ultra compact scope with "ALL" the bells and whistles on it, including Argo Navis, Servocat and the wireless handpad. Mark Suchting from Deep Sky Optics could do a superb mirror of whatever focal ratio you choose. Mark is one of the best 5 mirror makers on the planet.

I think you would find that a 16"/F4.2 scope or similar from SDM would cost a lot less than the 18" UC. It will also cost a lot less to ship and is infinitely easier to store transport and setup than an 18" scope. However, visually it doesn't lose all that much to an 18" scope.

Food for thought.

Cheers,
John B

[gary]

Salamat datang!

Thanks for the response.

The travel case is quite robust. Though, unlike the Blackbox flight recorder,
wouldn't survive an air crash, it would survive the Olympic hammer throwing
ambitions of the most eager baggage handler. :)

Having said that, shipped in their conventional disposable cardboard packaging,
the Obsessions routinely arrive in good order around the world. Having helped
unpack both a conventional 18 and a 25 that were sea freighted to Sydney,
it was evident that Dave Kriege had ensured the scopes were well packaged.
In fact, Customs or Quarantine unpacking to check them and then re-packing
them would possibly pose one of the bigger potential risks of damage
(visions of the sniffer dogs claws trying to make traction on top of the mirror :) )

So not purchasing the travel case and shipping it the way all the other
Obsessions are shipped can save some money. As I mentioned, whereas I find
lifting and loading the 18 UC into a car on my own easier than just about any other Dob
I have used (including things like solid tube 10" scopes), if the scope is packed
in the ATA case, it becomes a two-person job for me, though strong armed
individuals wouldn't think twice about it. For that reason, a lot of the time, I would
have left the case at home and just loaded the scope.

By the way, you definitely want to lay the scope flat, not put it on its side.

There wouldn't be many cars in the world it wouldn't fit into. Whereas when I
transport the conventional 18, I need to fold down the back seats and it then
takes up all of the back of the car, including the back seat area and wagon, with
the exception of the folded truss poles, the 18 UC just fits in the back of
the wagon without folding down the seats. The poles are compact and don't
take much space, so can sit on the floor or one back seat.

As you mentioned, buying an off-the-shelf case or getting one locally made
in Malaysia would definitely be an option. In the end, you will mainly want
to use the case for stowage when the scope is not in use, to keep the spiders
out, so it need not be ATA compliant. Besides, you will be the only one handling
it from now on whereas the ATA is designed along the lines that some
baggage handler who is having a bad hair day will be handling it.



If you are trimming the budget, don't worry about the wireless handpad.
The handpad is connected to the ServoCAT and the ServoCAT then wired
to the Argo Navis. You want to be able to see the Argo Navis display and
you want the handpad in your hand when at the eyepiece. It has buttons that
allow you to slew the scope and adjust its position (up , down, left, right).
The wired version works exactly the same and on the 18UC with its short
focal length (many don't need a ladder. I need to stand on one step when at
the zenith), the utility of the wireless version is not as compelling as say on
the 25" when you are way up the step ladder.



Not cheap, yes. Absolutely brilliant eyepiece, yes. A good combination in the 18.

Thanks for the background and the link to your web site which I checked out!
Also great to hear a little about the amateur astronomy scene in Malaysia and
it sounds as if you will have long queues both from colleagues and the general
public at the 18 during IYA! (People always queue for the biggest scope and
let's face it, aperture wins :) )

Take care!

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty Ltd.