New Binoculars

[johnno]

Hi All,
I received my new 11x56 binoculars from AOE yesterday,and am very happy with them.
Thay are NOT in the class of Leica,Zeiss,Nikon etc,etc.However for the money they represent very good value.
They appear to be an Oberwerk, or clone,which received a very good review on Cloudy Nights Binocular forum.
The specs,coatings,etc are the same as the 11x56 Oberwerk,ie
level 4 fully multicoated,bak-4 prisms,etc.
At 11x56 they are on the very edge of hand holdability,but I find sitting in a swivel chair,with a framework to rest my elbows on,makes them very easy to handhold.
I can almost fit in the full Southern cross in the fov,which fits in with the claimed 6 deg.
Stars are sharp almost to the edge,colour reproduction is good,and they are BRIGHT,for eg,I walked outside last night,and the jewell box was a nice bright little cluster,long before my eyes had become dark adapted,(due to the cold,and breathing problems,I didn't stay out long) Omega Centauri also a nice view.
I have never dealt with AOE before,but they state all Binoculars are tested for quality and Collimation,before shipping,which is an important thing,with most binoculars.regardless of Brand.
Regards.John

[MiG]

This website binocularschina (http://www.binocularschina.com/binoculars/giantbinoculars56mm.html) says that their binoculars are sold exclusively by Oberwerk in the US.
I believe (but I can't remember the proof) that this is the company that makes the binoculars sold by Andrew's and AOE.

So that is where the similarities come from.

[johnno]

Hi Mig,
I am sure these are the same as the Oberwerk/Andrews/AOE Barska,etc,etc,Cant find the proof either,but I believe,could be wrong,that they make most of the Chinese Binoculars,under a lot of different names and qualities,for eg,my Barska 15x70's look exactly the same,right down to the little dot pattern underneath the body,Unfortunately the Barskas, although,they have the good BAK-4 Prisms, aren't broadband fully multicoated,they are well coated,but not to the level my 11x56's are.
It looks like each brand is made to a certain level of quality and coating,depending on what the Retailer is prepared to pay.
Regards.John

[mch62]

Ditto to that , the Andrews 20x80 triplets are from Binocularchina just with the little Andrews name on them and a cheaper housing assemble.
This is what Bino china does for importers.
The 88mm right angle triplets for example can't be sold else where except for Apogee who have exclusive rights.
This happens a lot in the market.
another example is the Orion 80mmED being sold by Orion but could not be sold to other dealers for the first 12months.
Even synta the manufacturer could not sell them for 12months.

As far as the Andrews triplets go there quite light and able to be hand held.
This is due to everthing being plastic including the barrels.
The plastic stabilising rings on the end do bugger all.
Actually once there collimated the view isn't to bad.

That the thing tho about ever third or four time you use them you need to twick the prisims.
Not hard at all and takes about 10secs.

I pulled mine apart as I do with most of my gear and have reblackened the inside.Poorly done from start.
Whilst apart and with out the prisms I tried my Radians with the objectives .
Also did a star test and the objectives are actually dam good for about an f4ish focal length.
Color is about the same as my Celestron(Vixen Japan)11x80's

The prism mounting are pretty crude and the adjuster just pushes against the side of the prism and the base is held with silicon with a spring steel retainer.
This does allow for easy adjustment from the exterior , but lends itself to being knocked out of collimation easily.

If you don't mind fidling with them and once collimated there not to bad for the money.
The coatings are first class with ever surface coated.
The eyepieces look to be five element by the coating reflections.
Actually with the radians in , the FOV was awsome and more than the standard eyepieces.
This has got me thinking of making a 45deg interchangable eyepiece Binocular using all mirrors instead of prisms and the triplet objectives..

[beren]

Nice one John , i got my 20x80s from AOE {good experiance btw} very happy with them but wish they had right angle or 45 degree eyepieces make life easier looking through such a large binocular , but for the price a great buy {they do attact dew though with the rubber coating}.Hey Mark any info on doing on those mods would be fantastic , mine exhibit bit of a hit and miss with the blackening inside the tubes , it would be great to have some kind of tutorial on how to do it safely .

[ving]

sounds like a good set of binos :)
what did you pay for them?

[mch62]

Are you talking about just the blackening or making the 45 deg bino's.
As far as the later goes the July August edition of Sky and Space has an article called DIY giant binoculars along the same lines.
This guy used 2 x 100 mm f5 Acromatic scopes and 4 x 11/4" stardiagonals and 2 newtonian diagonals but if you read this you will get the general drift on how to do it.
I already have 3 of the cheap star diagonals as you tend to get one with ever scope you buy these days.
I like the idea of using mirrors as i think there is some colour being induced from the prisms in these bino's as using the Radian with out the prisms yelded very good images.
You do lose light on ever reflective surface tho unless you use very expensive dialectric mirrors.

With the price of the ED80's coming down , they would make a nice higher power pair although some what longer:D .
You can even get 120mm f5 Acromatics for $500each????
Good for lower powers with more light gathering.

Man I love making stuff :rofl:

As far as blackening the insides it's a bit involved as far as removing the lenses and prisms and would not like to give a how too incase you stuff them up.
Then I would be the worse @!$:wink2: in the world.
I found them pretty straight forward but am used to pulling my stuff apart.
The main thing to remember is because of the fine plastic threads you have to be carefull not to cross tread them especially on the front lens guards.

Price $249 including freight from Andrews.
For that price there good value but not up to Japenese standards or even that of there larger units which appear to be a little better constructed.
These have definaltly been designed with weight in mind.

[mch62]

Beren just a little cheap tip , get some 90mm storm water pipe and cut 2x 150mm pieces .
Split theses down the length with one cut only each then you can slide them over the barrels and the tension of the plastic will keep them in place.
The barrels of the 20x80triplets are about 95mm O.D. and 100mm pipe is to large.
Slide them over about 50mm and the 100mm remaining will be the dew shield.

Keep the gap of about 5mm towards the bottom and use tape to cover the gap of the cut if need be.

Of coarse paint them flat black inside.
This will give you 2 removable dew shields and help with the stray off axis light entering the barrels.

If you get these Bino's go to Crazy Clarks or some other discount store and pick up a set of cheap instrument screw drivers.
There about $5-6 from memory.
The collimation screw for the prism is under the rubber plasic cover on top of the prism housing.
You just need to pull the rubber back a touch to access the grub screw.Closest to the eyepieces.
Adjustment is just a matter of a small turn of one or both screws (1/4 turn for example)Don't turn one a lot but do both a small amount in oppisite directions to align the 2 images. Go a little past the best spot and then back a little to get the best alignment. a bit like focusing.
Also try to relax you eyes when doing it by looking away and then back several times.Your brain will merge the images into one if there only slightly out , but this will give you a brain pain in the long run. :rofl:

[beren]

Thanks Mark for the info , ill check the article :D understand with the tutorial , might get tempted to do it ....curiousity gets the better of me most of the times.


Ps:thanks for tip Mark , great idea

[johnno]

Hi All,
Ving,Price for the 11x56 Binoculars is $119.00 plus shipping,Depends where you live,but in my case it was an extra $10.00.
Andrews have them for the same price,BUT, I doubt they are quality and collimation checked before shipping.
I once bought a pair of 15x70s they arrived totally out of collimation,Lee was very good and sent me another pair before I even sent the faulty ones back,only thing wrong with that, was the new pair was 11x70s in a 15x70s box.
I was so annoyed by this time I said to Lee,dont worry about sending me any more,I will keep the 11x70s,so you can see why I bought these new ones from AOE.
Dont get me wrong,I have bought a lot of gear from Lee,and will continue to do so,BUT NEVER, Binoculars again.

I have heard the 20x80s with the plastic surrounds around the barrels can be a problem,in fact they can go out of collimation when adjusting the ipd width for your eyes,so if set,and collimated for your eyes,and someone wants to look through them,and adjusts the ipd,they are out again.
Mark,you have far more patience than I,but given your obvious skills,I am sure you will sort them out,they are also very good binoculars,and have had some good reviews.
Regards.John

[beren]

John with mine i find have to adjust the focus a little to regain clarity in focus if i swing to another area in the sky so you may be right , its strange but they still deliver wonderful views

[fringe_dweller]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou Mark - you are a gentlemen and a scholar :)
i just bought a pair of the same Andrews badged 20x80 triplets (excellent service- very pleasant experience I must say! - NO waiting 4 months - [just a week] ;) like some dealers unfortunately have a habit of doing) I havent used 'em at night yet - but i can tell their very good in daylight already - they are superbly light - i really like them for what i want them for - bright comets. And at that price how can you go wrong?.
I'm not terribly put off by slight out of collimation - my mate bazz'z old 70's german 20x80's got so out of alignment (or something?) once that stars were triangles - but when looking at a gorgeous bright comet at the time - it made no lick of difference to the view of the comet! it was still awesome!! weird!! but having said that I would still like to be able to collimate them myself - so thanks for the advice so far, that seems to be enough info (also using that oberwerk page as a guide).
But if you could by chance ever find the time to put together a pictorial step by step 'how to' collimate these particular binos - I think you would be EVEN more popular than you already are - if thats possible? especially seeing their are so many owners of this excellent 'bang for your buck' model on the foruml! its a big ask I know - i understand if you cant, no problem :) btw an Adelaide astro/optical biz - i won't mention - charge up to $80 to collimate a pair of binos.
Kearn

[mch62]

Thanks for the praise but that what the forum is for sharing knowledge , but am happy you have found something to help.

Here is link on the how to but it is actualy quite simple as per my previous post.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=416

They should not be out by much and just the twick of the top rear screws should serfice.

Just remember a only a small turn should do the job don't screw them untill they fall out. :doh:

I could understand the $80 for better quality binoculars as they may not be as simple to collimate.
For example my Circa 1990's Celestron (Japanese made Vixens)11x80's need to have the eyepieces removed and the rear prism covers removed to adjust the prisms as there is no external adjusters.
But due to the much better designed prism mounts I have not need to collimate them in the 15 years I have had them.
They work on a principle similar to a 3 point mirror mount with 3 push pull screw and lock adjustement.Very solid , where as the Chineses 20x80's are a not as well engineered and only use a single screw .
You should not be charged $80 for them however as it's a do it your self job.
I sent Lee an e-mail and links to the how to do it ones self pages so he could print out a copy to include with the destructions.
I don't think he is quite able to do it himself.
Lee seams a nice block and I have been buying from him for over 5years now but he is not that familiar with what he sells.
Don't know if he took my advise but it would save a lot of returns .

[beren]

I cant find it now but inside the case that came with my binoculars a leaflet detailing collimating/maintaining techniques was included .....plus some cleaning stuff

[mch62]

Does it look like it came from the web sites or is it just the simple standard destructions from binocular china??

[fringe_dweller]

Wow! - good on ya! i actually had done a search in CN on that subject a few days ago - but didnt see that article flagged? - oh well, thnx, can see it now :)
I know what you mean about good binos rarely going out of alignment - my eschenbach 8x56's have never moved a nanometer out of alignment in over 3 years - stars are perfect - and they have had a lot use
Kearn

[fringe_dweller]

oh wondrous days of something for next to nothing - here ye here ye
Just tried out the andrews 20x80 triplets at night in the light polluted backyard for the first time - .....drum roll ....... the envelope please ..... and the winner is... andrews 20x80's triplets take a bow...
Very Nice .. I LIKE ... nice pin point stars .. a lot more colour than i was expecting .. very light for aperture ... FoV is seemed at least 3º as stated somewhere .. its all there ,, gonna be excellent for my purposes (just need a bright comet now to view at a dark site [nudge nudge, Terry, Vello and others]) until i can afford the next level or two up - I like the look of oft mentioned and seemingly highly regarded Oberworks BT 100's - maybe next year
thats the pros, and now for the con's - i think these have been mentioned before
That crazy one piece cap for the ep's - crazy
The very hard to wrench off front objective caps? seems like your gonna break the thing!
The chinese puzzle soft case i dont think a lot of - the kunming 25x100's have a better more sensible fitting softcase
of course the eye relief isnt great, ect. - but i expect that at that price - no biggie
none of these con's concern me hugely - all can be dealt with easy np
Big Goofy Grin on my face now - :D
Cheers
Kearn - yes i have some binoculars today

[MiG]

How's the chromatic aberration? Looking at a street light with various portions of the FOV should show any pretty well.

I still can't decide between 15x70, 20x80, and 20x80 light weight. :help3:

[fringe_dweller]

Unfortunately MiG they don't reach focus close enough for me to use the streetlights i can reach with it at the mo (builtup) - I was going to wait for the moon to come back to test that properly - but i didnt get them for looking at bright objects. You dont notice the CA on the milkyway or general dark sky/stars/bright comets with my chinese 25x100's - only major planets and moon. And these 20x80' appear much better quality than my 100's so i'm guessing it might be bearable for sure.
Maybe Mark could say something about the CA?
Kearn

[beren]

Nice one Kearn , interesting you say about the colour and eye relief .....i might be used to my 120 f/5 refractor exhibiting it but i thought my 20x80s where pretty good in that regard nothing obtrustive or really noticable even on a telegraph pole . The only thing i find a little annoying is flaring like when i have the moon or jupiter outside the FOV theres light refections or something.As for eye relief i wear contacts and havent tried the binoculars without them but its not bad but i do have the rubberguards down . Mig i think Seeker has a pair of lightweights but mine are the ones with the central supporting bar , i wouldnt like to hand hold them while observing and your probarly have to factor in a camera tripod and that might be the case with the other two options too

[mch62]

Eye relief is 19mm which is actually pretty good and able to be used by spectacle wearers.
The CA is about that of an 80mm f5 Achromatic refractor at 20x.
These are about an f4 system to keep them compact and lighter in weight.
There 5 cm shorter than the light weight 20x80 model.
Remember these are not APO triplets but are designed to give an acceptable amount of colour in a shorter focal ratio system.
Have just had a looky through and collimated Argonavis 's new 22x100's Bino's at Atro fest and found the 20x80T Ca to be as good as these if not better as far as colour.

Really I don't use binoculars for looking at the planets or the moon so colour on these brighter objects is not a concern .
As far as any flaring the simple lens shades I quoted above reduce this but the interiors need better blackening especially as there are no baffles.
For me I use them solely for deep sky use and they perform very well in this regard and if carefully collimated will give pin point star images to the edge of field with dark back grounds.

One tip when using the fold down eye caps when things start fogging up at the eyepiece , fold the caps back.
They act as little buckets and trap heat from your face.
Things got real cold on Friday night at Astro fest with heavy frost by 12 midnight and all the hair dryers starting up, I found the eye caps to be a nuisance until I folded them back.

All those that had a look through them liked what they saw some were able to hand hold them while others were not. I do hand hold and also use a tripod .
O yes the case is the pits , turf it and get something better.
Can't expect to much for $250.

Mark

[fringe_dweller]

Thanks again Mark and Beren! these binos just get better - and :doh: didnt think of folding down the eyecaps! when i said the eye relief was average - i really should said I was including the apparent field of view of the ep's seeming narrow or average in the equation? hhmmm - the sweet spots of focus arent hugely wide? (could be my eyes?), it seemed from my brief use of them. But I am not an optics expert by any stretch of the imagination hehe - I am like one of those people that like to drive cars ect. but i dont really enjoy tinkering with them or doing them up as much as a LOT of people seem to (i wish i was!) - but i still love to go for a spin in a nice one and give em some stick now and then :)
Kearn
PS I have to make a correction - I said it took a week to receive my 20x80 triplets here in Adelaide from Lee Andrews - to be accurate it was actually much shorter than that - it was about 3 - 4 working days, as there was a weekend in the middle - feel better for that :)