Premium eyepiece 'too good' for cheap scope?

[programmer]

When I joined IIS I was told to ask lots of dumb questions, so here's another :)

The title says it.. There must be a point where a quality eyepiece is simply overkill. I'm thinking an Ethos on a department store scope for e.g..
Just say there was this guy, right, who had a GSO 10" dob... :whistle: Would he be crazy to invest in a Nagler, for example? Assume well collimated optics in good condition of course :D

[dannat]

Just buy it and stop wondering, you only live once. you know you want to - only problem is - do you have to justify it to anyone:innocent:

[programmer]

:rofl:that's what I was after. No, I don't have to justify it.. I have some long service coming so I'm rewarding myself :)

[AlexN]

Yep. I'd say go for it if you wont be dragged over hot coals for the decision.

[wavelandscott]

While this question probably fits best in the eyepiece section...

I've said before and I'll say again...in my opinion, a few high quality eyepieces are preferred to a bunch of low/moderate quality eyepieces...

Yes, it is unnerving to spend more on an eyepiece than the scope but a good one can last a lifetime...also, if you choose to get out of the hobby you will retain a higher percentage of the resale of the top stuff.

[Omaroo]

Yep - get one and keep it forever.

[iceman]

A 10" dob isn't a cheap scope!

Well, it is cheap for what you get for it, but a 10" dob is a brilliant scope. We're not talking about putting a $800 eyepiece in a $40 ebay refractor.

The answer is absolutely yes - the 10" dob will work very very well with the whole range of premium eyepieces, and it is worth it. The views will be significantly better.

[dugnsuz]

Go for it - during my 'visual' period:P, the best views I have had from any scope was a 10" GSO (well collimated) Dob and a 13mm Nagler - outstanding!

I'm getting all nostalgic now:sad:

ps...your Hyperion is a premium EP IMHO anyway.

[robgreaves]

Definitely not a dumb idea - go for it. The eyepiece is half your optical system. A lot of people neglect the eyepiece and just shop for cheap as possible... and then are disappointed with the views. Kind of stand to reason if youask me!

Use a decent Nagler or Panoptic and you will then enjoy the best views possible, knowing that now your telescope optics are the limiting factor, not the eyepiece ;)

Televue through and through here in the eyepiece dept. You can't buy better.

Regards,
Rob

[programmer]

Thanks all.. makes my decision significantly easier.

And Mike I didn't mean cheap as in 'nasty', just inexpensive :) I love my dob!

[koputai]

I'm only reasonably new to this caper, but have spent a bit on a number of eyepieces which are supposedly 'good value' in the $70-$150 range. By and large I've been disapointed in these eyepieces. From now on for proper observing I'm only buying premium. I'll still buy odd cheaper ones here and there, but more out of interest than for actually using much (still want to get some Japanese ortho's). The views through the better stuff is worth it.
Seriously, I didn't want to like Naglers, I had the idea it was your typical American good ol' boy mythology, but they are seriously good eyepieces. I'm sure Pentax XW's are great too, maybe you could look at the 10mm in those if you really want a 10mm rather than a 9mm?

Cheers,
Jason.

[davewaldo]

Hi Programmer,

I used to own a 10" GSO scope. I found premium EPs made a HUGE difference! Not just for image quality but consequently it made observing so much more enjoyable. I have a Meade 14mm s4000 UWA which is an old copy of the Naglers. This EP is my favourite and made me want to observe more often. The difference compared to standard Plossls is massive in my opinion. I also think that the 14mm focal length is a great one for that scope (if you were only going to buy one Nagler).

One other thing... I could notice quite a difference in planetary detail between my Hyperion 8mm and my UWA 8.8. So I wouldn't necessarily class the Hyperions as premium. They are good, but in a fast scope they do deteriorate.

I don't think you would ever regret buying a Nagler. :)

Cheers,

Dave.

[Paddy]

I notice that you haven't had any negative comments on your plan. Well, you won't get one from me! I love my TV eps. BUT I still use my GSO plossls to get a little more detail on faint galaxies. When I posed this on another thread, people suggested that having fewer lens elements enabled a little more light to get through and I think this is a good explanation. I wonder if I might invest in a TV 15mm plossl at some stage just for this purpose. But, if you get a Nagler or Ethos, you'll still have the plossls that came with the scope, so you lose nothing. The nagler's wide fields are fantastic!

[ausastronomer]

I don't rate the Panoptics anywhere near the top of the eyepiece tree these days. IMO they are a dated design and newer materials are available. That's why a couple of focal lengths have recently been dropped from production. I am prepared to bet money that a couple more of the Panoptics will be dropped in the not too distant future. Some of the newer eyepiece designs like Pentax XW's, Denkmeier's and Vixen LVW's are superior to the Panoptic line in many respects, including eye relief, comfort, contrast, light throughput, cooler colour tone and lack of rectilinear (pincushion) distortion.



In focal lengths under 10mm you can certainly buy better, or at least as good. I have a case full of Naglers, Pentax XW's and an ETHOS as they do different things at different focal lengths. In focal lengths of 10mm or less, the Pentax XW's are superior to the type 6 Naglers in many respects. The 30mm Pentax XW is also superior to the 31mm Nagler in many respects. The Pentax XW's offer a cooler more neutral colour tone, better eye relief and comfort, better contrast and without any doubt, go deeper on threshhold targets. Notwithstanding that, I choose the 31mm Nagler over the 30mm Pentax XW because at this focal length my objective is to maximise the TFOV, not contrast and throughput. In the shorter focal lengths I choose the XW's where contrast and throughput are more important to me. I currently have a 7mm Pentax XW and a 7mm Nagler T6 on hand and while the Nagler offers a larger TFOV the 7mm Pentax XW beats it in many other respects. In most cases these differences are pretty marginal and it takes an experienced observer with a good scope and good conditions to pick a difference.

To say you "can't buy better than Televue" is a pretty blinkered approach. Zeiss, Leitz (Leica), Nikon, Pentax, TMB and Astrophysics all produce some outstanding eyepieces. Some suited to specific observing tasks. Televue certainly make excellent products and in "some" cases they are the best. But, they aren't the only choice at the top end and it often comes down to what aspects of eyepiece performance are most important to each individual observer. eg. As a planetary eyepiece a Televue Plossl is not as good as a Zeiss Abbe orthoscopic, at anything. It's also about 1/6th of the price.

Cheers,
John B

[Fox]

Programmer, it's not overkill at all. It just means that the EP will not be rate-limiting; you'll be getting the utmost of what the scope can offer when seeing is good. If/when you upgrade your scope, those top end EPs will become even more worthwhile the investment. Fox.

[Hagar]

What was the old saying?????
A ten dollar ep in a $1000 scope gives $10 views.
A $500 ep in a $1000 scope gives million dollar views.

Very true

GO FOR IT

[Kokatha man]

Without disagreeing with the sentiments, it can't be a terribly "old" saying - not if you've taken note of scope and ep prices over the last 30-40 years!:P:whistle::)

[programmer]

I think it's unanimous.

Mainly cause my wife doesn't get a vote :D

[Prickly]

What the iceman said - just make sure you dont drop it! The current of GSO and skywatcher dobs are very impressive instruments. Certainly not the department store scopes of old. The GSO mirrors specify 1/10 th wave which seems very good indeed.

Cheers
David

[taminga16]

Programmer,
Why not get down to the next Mornington Peninsula Astro Society meeting, held on the first friday of every month (contact no. 0419 253252).
The chances of using some or all of the EP's mentioned would be more than likley.

Regards,

Greg.

[programmer]

That's far too sensible advice :)

Actually I planned to go to the last one but it was overcast.

[programmer]

I thought I read 1/12 wave the other day on the current crop of GSO dobs. But then I'm not even sure which is better (Google will soon fix that :))!

[programmer]

Well, I stopped going around in circles (Moebius loops even?) and put money down on not one but two Nagler Type VI EPs after finally settling on 9mm and 13mm. The opportunity presented itself so I thought I better take it (who knows when it will happen again). I have little doubt I'll be over the Moon with these oculars.

Thanks again for sorting through my ramblings and setting me on the straight and narrow :)

And just in time for approaching new Moon! Hopefully I'll have a first light on these soon.

[davewaldo]

You lucky boy! hehe

I'm sure you will be very happy. I'd love to hear exactly what you think of them once you get a chance to test them.

Dave.

[AstralTraveller]

I think that GS do cut corners but it is with things the average handyman can fix. The important bits - optics and focuser - seem quite good. For the price they are unbelievable.

The motion is not nearly as good as some home-made scopes I've used but a bit of ebony star and teflon will fix that. Counterweights and dew/light shield are also musts.

I'm assembling my 25cm GSO now and the first thing I looked at was all that exposed non-waterproof particleboard where the uprights meet the base board. Mine now has three coats of PVA wood glue and two coats of exterior pant on those surfaces. I don't want this thing falling apart in five years.

[programmer]

Thanks :) I see it as investment in the hobby. I'll try and give my humble impressions at some stage.



Yes I'll have to do all those things very soon. I should have a try of a good home made dob one day too.