Cat amongst the pigeons.... Meade Lx90 vs Newt/EQ6

[Iddon]

Ok,
around the bouy one more time :)

Have been analysing what I should get for a first scope for a few weeks now, with lots of help from you all. :)

Looking at two options currently:

1. 8" or 10" F6 Newt on driven HEQ5 or EQ6, no GOTO- about $1500 (new and 2nd hand options available).

2. Meade Lx90 LNT - perhaps $2800 (ish) - new

As I consider my modus operandi, storage and movement, the compact nature of the Lx90, and its GOTO functions, I can see some value in that extra $1300.

I have had one negative report on a Meade experience, but also have read a few reviews from some very happy campers.

Opinions and ideas from the field most welcome and appreciated.
[Oh - and yes, have considered a dobs - beat ya to it :):)]

[Astroman]

Why not go Dob hehehe......

I used an LX90 at a star party we had, not a bad little scope, optical wise. The loud motors are a turn off for me, but thats me, I like quiet viewing, or close enough to quiet as I can get. The Focusing took a bit to get used to in, out a bit, oops too far, a bit more in, then back, ahh thats it (is this normal?). I am guessing some bob knobs would be handy or a zeroshift focuser (do they make em for the LX90?) The mount looked okay for the scope, the GOTO's were more or less spot on, within the field of a 26mm plossl anyway.

Personally I would got EQ6 with some form of OTA ontop, you can build up on it more so than the meade. Or you can put a Meade OTA on the eq6 :P

[acropolite]

I was faced with the same dilemma a few months ago and decided on the LX90 because I wanted to dabble in astrophotography. I'm very happy with the LX despite some initial teething problems (with handbox software) which were corrected with a simple software update. The biggest advantage with the LX is that you don't need to know where everything is to enjoy the sky and of course tracking. Meade are also releasing bigger LX90's. The LX90 is nicely portable, I leave mine on the tripod and simply carry outside when the need arises. The LX90 also comes with free LPI and autostar software which allows control of the OTA from a laptop. The problem with a newt will be the sheer physical size on the mount as any movement will be amplified by the length of the OTA. Information on this site may help with your decision. http://www.users.bigpond.com/lansma/ :D

[mch62]

Your going to get the most bang for your buck with a Newtonian OTA.
You will also get the best contrast with a Newtonian with only a refractor or off axis Newtonian of similar size out performing them.
The draw back bulky for transportation.
That's a SCT strong point , it's compact but it comes at a cost both $ and performance.

Mark

PS.
Grant if you come down on Saturday night you will get a chance to look through a good example of a 12.5" Newtonian (Dob).
I would then try to compare those views to a similar size SCT if you get a chance, especially on the planets.
Deep sky the differences my not be as apparent but the high contrast views from the Newtonian will be evident.
As you know I have had a 12" SCT and for me now a Good Newtonian is hard to beat , especially for the $$$.

PPS.
This will put the dog amongst the cats

PPS.
I am not tottaly anti SCT they have there place .
I am actually considering a Celestron 8" Fast star only set up for piggy backing on my Newtonian for wide field use.
Now a 390mm f1.95 lens for imaging gets the blood rushing.

[seeker372011]

I have a Celestron C 8 NGT-8 inch newt on a goto-ok its quite a bit bulkier than an SCT but it has GoTo, can be autoguided and can be used for deepspace astrophotography with a webcam or DSLR..and costs $1000 or more less than the LX90..around $500 more than for the second hand non goto that you are considering

I am obviously very happy with it or wouldnt suggest it to anyone

check out the Celestron AS Series yahoo group for more if you are interested

[mch62]

Have you ever done a side by side comparison between it and an 8"SCT .
Interested in you view if so.

Mark

[xstream]

Grant, If you want portability go for the LX90 if not go for the Newt. My wife being small and of slight build has an LX90 because it's light compact and easy for her to handle. Don't be put off an 8" SCT is still a great scope.

[binofied]

Iddon one thing you didn't mention was what your going to use this new telescope for. If your getting into astrophotography maybe one of the other of these two may be of use.

If your wanting to do visual observing a dob mount is by far the better option.

Don't be fooled into thinking that your going to get one of the only setups in the world that is great for both visual and photos. There isn't such a beast (certainly not in the sub $3000 range). The disiplines are almost muturally exclusive. Great tracking, super fine focus, multiple telescopes (guide and imaging) on the same mount, smallish apatures (for photos) vs large apature preferrably alt az for easy star hopping for visual.

[seeker372011]

I havent, but Phil Harrington did in Astronomy magazine some months ago..both Celestron scopes..

he rated the newt optically superior

there's no doubt that an 8 inch newt is not as portable as an SCT...

[gbeal]

Now ther's a new face: welcome Dave.

[Starkler]

One consideration I havent seen mentioned on the forums is that for astrophotography, an SCT scope will typically show a much smaller field of view than a newt of similar aperture due to its much longer focal length.

I love wide field viewing when I can get away from city lights :)

[fringe_dweller]

Dave nailed it on the head - I have for many years observed through a 10 year old celestron SCT C8/GP alongside 8" and various sized long and short FL newts/dobs. in my personal opinion a quality newt - even a 6"- will by a long way far outperform this particular 8" SCT (in good nick) in visual use everytime - the difference is almost sad to me (visually). The 33% central obstruction is not a great design feature - plus all the extra glass (corrector plate)! But for piggyback (or prime focus - not that we do any) photography we would be lost without the C8/ on its GP EQ mount. Also for us the long FL of the SCT (f10) is very handy if you still use (like us) the now seriously archaic method of hand guiding, by increasing our 11mm illuminated reticulated guiding EP to even higher magnifying power than it would be in a shorter FL scope - thus increasing tracking accuracy a little bit more (of which we need all we can get :) ).
Fringey

[fringe_dweller]

sorry - i just realised i omitted another big reason the optics are compromised in my mates old SCT - in all fairness having to use a diagonal in conjunction with the EP - puts more glass in the way of business (it is a lot nicer straight thru) - which unless you are a Twister or Limbo world champion/ Yoga instructer you cannot escape using with this OTA/EQ design in most positions. to me one of the most important positions for a OTA to be at ease for visual use at, is zenith - this is usually where the juiciest seeing is of course - I dont liike EQ's in that position very much ( they also they have trouble with the poles) - (they love east west 45º most of all). whereas a dob is at home at zenith completely :)
Fringey

[Iddon]

Great feedback guys :)
Whilst acknowledging the negatives, the mobility, transportability and storage of the SCT are perhaps the compelling values thus far. It seems good enough for the task, and has the attributes I need.
But still have not yet put in an order :)

[astro_south]

Grant

I would leave the order until you have had a chance to look through some scopes. Come down to Mark's on Saturday night and we can talk more and you can try out the use my dob.

If the money isn't burning a hole....you should come out to Leyburn the following weekend and test out the range of scopes out there. PM me for more details on this.

[Rodstar]

Grant,

The GOTO function makes entry to astronomy for an absolute beginner much easier from my experience....I'd be lost without it. As a beginner's scope, I'd also suggest that optically you'll be blown away with whatever you buy if it has 8" or more.

I went the whole hog and got a 10" LX200 as my first scope in Jan 05. I am thrilled with it. I have made many comparisons with other scopes of similar aperture (8 - 12") both Dobs and SCTs at IceinSpace functions and at the SPSP 05. I have not observed a noticable difference between Dobs and SCTs of equivalent aperture, at least to my beginner eyes.

There is however a bit of difference when you jump 2 inches of aperture, whatever the type of scope; an 8" LX90 is visually slightly inferior to a 10" LX200. I don't detect much difference visually between Mike's (Iceman) 10" Dob and my scope, but there is a noticable improvement when I look through Frogman's 12 inch Dob.

Whatever your budget, don't forget to leave enough money for the eyepieces. I can see myself easily spending another $3,000 in eyepieces over the next few years....good aperture is all well and good, but if you don't have decent eyepieces, some of the benefit will be lost.

Good luck with the decision-making. I'd recommend you go to some star parties and try before you buy; that is, if you can contain yourself!!

[fringe_dweller]

Rod thats very true re EP's - as all the adds always say 'the eyepiece is half the telescope"
Fringey

[Iddon]

thanks guys :)
Yeah - better hold a bit in reserve for the EP's....
Andrew - look forward to meeting you on Sat.
Will be in Brisbane the following Sat unfortunately - pity to miss Leyburn - will plan better for the next one.
:)
Lx200....ahhhhh. Now back to reality:)

[[1ponders]]

You wouldn't be sorry :D

[Iddon]

yes Paul - one does ponder over such options....
I am stretching the better halves comfort factor with an Lx90 - pity, that Lx200 looks right up my alley:)

Unfortunately she sees this as another one of my looney interests: "They're just STARS". Oh well :)

[[1ponders]]

Lets talk. See what we can do. You don't have to take all the accessories :D

[astro_south]

Paul

If you can make it along Saturday night and bring your scope you could give Grant the sales pitch with a hands on demo :D

[[1ponders]]

I'm trying hard Andrew, trust me. I really want to get together with you guys.
Sorry back on topic now :)

[Iddon]

emailed ya mate :)

[fringe_dweller]

as is my habit to go on and on - I will do it again LOL! - I have been thinking about the statement that there is absolutely no difference visually between a quality SCT and a quality medium FL (say f6) Newtonian that seems to me to have been made. One BIG difference i have always noticed is the superior resolving power of a newt compaared to my mates SCT - i realise SCT's must have come a long way in 10 years - maybe the modern ones are much better?.
I assume we are talking about they are identical at low power? try this little test when the gods next align and the seeing is extraordinary - what is the maximum magnification you can reach with your SCT? (and still be sharp as a tack - as good as low power is!) Try the moon, its the easiest to test on. I have a number of times seen around 1000X (not a typo one thousand times) using two stacked barlows and my mates quality Masuami (sic?- forgetten how that is spelt?) EP with a few of my mates handmade newts - even with a 6". I have regularly seen 600X achieved comfortably on planets/moon - no problem - steady as - like looking at perfect image - with these scopes. Not everyone is happy with just low power stuff. Cheers
And thnx for humoring me on this :)
Fringey
Another thing I have noticed is when someone has spent thousands of dollars on a SCT they are very unlikely to admit that it is anyway different to another scope - my mate still wont verbally admit after all these years that his SCT is in anyway visually inferior LOL - he just grumpily changes the subject!
:) And as one of the legends of Aussie astronomy always says when asking about the quality of a scope "does it resolve Antares (to a double)?"

[beren]

[quote]Another thing I have noticed is when someone has spent thousands of dollars on a SCT they are very unlikely to admit that it is anyway different to another scope[quote/]

:) noticed its usally a non SCT user that whats to bring the point up:D

[fringe_dweller]

I admit to being a chronic Dob Snob :evil: but i would be a (visually) premium large apo refractor (tak/AP) snob if i could afford to be prolly as well - and i admit when SCT's (or any design just about) get to a large size they are amazing - but we were talking about an 8" SCT at the beginning compared to a similar sized newt.

[beren]

:) Youll get no argument from me about a quality newts optical performance vs a SCT but the old SCT out of all the designs seems to attract its fair blows to the guts...err tube ...which is contrary ,if you believe the literature, to its 30yr popularity which indicates that users of SCTs see value in the money invested . The optics of course should be the deciding factor but in defense of a SCT i think {my experiance anywhy} a modern, collimated cooled down CAT does a hell of a job and whether its in fork mount or EQ guise offers a lot of advantages as some of the guys have higlighted to Grant .

Cat Snob:cheers:

[Rodstar]

I still reckon for a beginner (like me) it's pretty hard to tell the visual difference between SCTs and Dobs of the same aperture...in the end I'm sure you'll be very happy with whatever you get.

[Starkler]

I look at SCT prices and think of what size premium quality dob i could get with the same money :P

[Iddon]

I guess its all about the value of the various factors in accord each person needs and interests.