Argo Navis installed on my 12" dob

[monoxide]

i got my AN on friday and within 2 hours (i took my time) i had it all nicely installed and the wires nice and tidy but i noticed that the ota will hit the azimuth encoder if i go higher than around 70 degrees, even less when i put a knock stopper so it wont hit at all :scared:
i havent had a chance to check out the AN yet because of the weather but i have done an encoder/mechanical test and all seems fine so far.

i cant wait to check it out but im interested to know if anyone else has had a similar problem and im not sure what i can do to fix it other than either raise the height of the ota or lower the encoder somehow, ill post some photos if i get a chance tomorrow

[gbeal]

A common problem. Yes, creeping the tube up a bit can help, but you will need to counterweight the primary end. I made all my stuff, so paid particular attention to getting the encoder as low as it would possibly go, for this very reason. Indeed, pictures will help.
One this is for sure, you will love the Argo.
Gary

[monoxide]

the skies have cleared up a bit here, so i was just out trying to get it going, obviously im doing something wrong as it is waaaaay off the mark at the moment, it really sounds simple until you get it in your hands and try to work it out.

right now im trying to wrap my head around how to get this thing going
i had a warp of -0.05 but accuracy was way out,

right now the manual is just confusing me :)
i guess ill sort it all out eventually but right now it just seems frustrating

[Dave47tuc]

Hi TJ,
step 1
A few things to look at first see that the AZ and ALT steps are set right.
Try the + sign first if this does not work go with the – sign.
Do this under mode set up press enter, then spin the dial to setup ALT steps then Setup AZ steps.
Step 2
After this turn the AN on then under mode fix ALT ref press enter. Spin dial till it reads, Alt ref = 90
Auto adjust on. Press enter.
Step 3
Then exit then spin dial to Mode align star. Align to Antares, press enter once in centre of field of eyepiece. Then try Procyon. Then press enter.

If this did not work re do step 1.

Spin dial to mode catalogue then press enter then find Messier press enter the input M4 then move scope as per arrows. ( the AZ arrow can point the wrong way but just go opposite for now.)

See how you go.

TJ if you want to talk to someone on the phone at night you can pm me for my phone number and I can help. Or in the day ring Gary at Wildcard he will more than help you. It can be a bit hard at first, but you will get it and find once learned the AN will be a pleasure.

[Tannehill]

Hi monoxide,

I've a 12" GSO dob and use the Argo also. I have the Wildcard kit for the GSO dob (encoders, mounting hardware, etc). Is this what you have? If so, yes, pics re the AZ encoder install would help. I had about 4 mm of clearance over the encoder before my mods. Perhaps - if you are using the Wildcard kit - you have modified your scope or base to make the clearance less? How much additional clearance would you need to have the OTA clear the encoder?

If you have the Wildcard kit, you will have this brass az tangent arm. this arm normally has a nice right-angle end where it would fit down on the rocker bottom. I chose not to secure the arm to the rocker bottom because I noted a little precession in my az bolt. I thought it was the rocker bottom being a bit uneven, but turns out it is the well drilled into the az bolt. It's not perfectly straight up and down, and so my encoder bearing precesses. Result: can't screw down the tangent arm or it'll bind the encoder. So I "fence in" the az tangent arm so it can't rotate, but it can glide up and down and not bind as the scope spins in az. I also had too short a bolt after I added thicker az pads and ebony star, so I ordered a new longer bolt from Wildcard which will fix all the above issues.

If you have this kit, there is another option for you. You can remove this tangent arm, or modify it so the encoder bearing can slide farther down into the az well. That well in the az bolt is quite deep, but when the encoder is attached to the tangent arm, it (the encoder bearing) won't slide in as far because the tangent arm flange hits the rocker bottom and stops the assembly short. If you bend the tangent arm "up" you can slide the encoder bearing farther in the well. Now, this will leave you without a nice flat tangent arm surface meeteing the rocker bottom. Cosmetically less appealing but still 100% functional, and you get maybe 3-4 mm additional clearance.

Gary K at Wildcard can also make you custom az bolts to suit your needs.

If you don't have the wildcard kit, then this won't really help. Send pics. There are a few other ways to improve clearance but it depends on how much clearance you need and the length/style of your az bolt. Washers or shims under the bolt flange on the ground board side (to shorten the bolt's projection above the rocker bottom), adding shims under your alt teflon pads to raise the tube a few mm, etc.

Most every Argo user has that same initial struggle with the unit. It is a very powerful and feature-heavy product and there is no easy way to present all that simply without cutting corners, and Wildcard doesn't cut corners. I would say a quick start section with bare essentials for first-time users would be nice. But teh Troubleshooting section is pretty good, really.

The most enthusiastic users are generally experienced people who forgot their first few hours of struggle. I haven't, so I'll tell you that! Yes, I think most folks have troubles the first 30 minutes of use. In large part that's because folks rush out into the dark and don't do their initial QA steps in a comfy lighted room so as to recognize the big issues. Cables swapped, mount type setting is wrong, fix alt ref step skipped, the list is long.

But, 90% of that manual can go unread and you will still never exhaust the unit's potential. There are only a few key sections you need to enjoy hours of use (Geez, I sound like an ad, now.... I have no connection with Wildcard, just to say!)

You can contact Gary K at Wildcard via email; or thru the very helpful argo_navis Yahoo group.

There are few basic Qs to ask to identify your struggle point. Mount type entered correctly? Did you do a daytime encoder test? Are you sure your az and alt cables aren't swapped? Did you successfully do a two star align? Did you do a Fix Alt Ref step after initialization (power on)? I can pretty much guarantee that if you were able to install the encoders in 20 min, Gary (or I or someone) can get you up and running with the Argo within about 25 lines of email text after getting those Qs sorted out. Gary especially has so much experience and insight that he is almost telepathic about it...you just need to spell out what you did and what the argo said and showed you, and he can often diagnose the problem.

But pics for the Az encoder/tube collision issue will help.

Cheers

Scott in Sandringham, VIC

[monoxide]

thanks dave, the clouds have just rolled back in so if it clears up later ill have another go.

[monoxide]

Hi Scott,
i just had another look and i seem to have fixed the ota collision problem but even now it only *just* clears the encoder by 1mm or less, but it clears. as for alignment issues i guess that just requires clear skies and time

[gary]

Hi Monoxide,

I am also monitoring this thread.

As you can appreciate, the tolerance on the GSO Dobs for the Az encoder is tight.
However, sounds as if you have improvised it to clear.

Chances are one or more of your encoder direction sense signs is incorrect.

When you GUIDE to an object, is it nearly 180 degrees out? If so, the direction
sense signs you have are set as if the OTA has been flipped beyond the zenith
stop position. You will need to change them.

Don't forget that you can email sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au for support or give us a call.

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[monoxide]

Hi Gary,
i think the main problem at the moment is not getting enough time to do any troubleshooting either due to clouds or dew, skies cleared up here tonight but not even 10 minutes after setting up the scope the dew hit.
ill try reversing the sense signs when i can and if i have any more problems ill send you an email,
thanks

[circumpolar]

Don't forget to become a member of the AN user group. These folf are very helpful.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/argo_navis_dtc/

[monoxide]

after about 10 mins of tinkering it looks like ive got it worked out, fantastic stuff, even better when i set up the laptop with it.
sure makes suburban dso hunting a hell of a lot easier :)

[gary]

Hi Monoxide,

Great to hear you are up and going.

To interface with a laptop, you should set the appropriate BAUD rate
and STARTUP command in SETUP SERIAL.

See the User Manual on SETUP SERIAL for details.

Don't forget you can email sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au or phone
us 9am-5pm Mon-Fri AEST for advice.


Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[DobDobDob]

Blimy every time I read about the AN I just go crazy, I now only have to wait another 7 weeks till I get mine, this has been the longest three months of my life :P

Please tell me that with a 16" Dob and an AN that I will be in seventh heaven compared to my existing 6" Refractor :whistle:

[Starkler]

Theres no comparison ;)

[DobDobDob]

Phew, that's what I wanted to hear ;) can you just keep telling me that every few weeks so that the time passes a little more quickly, this is like sitting on Death Row (well not quite) but time certainly seems to have slowed down :P

[DobDobDob]

Hi again, just another quick question and sorry for not reading the answer in the AN manual, but I assume you can just keep updating new data into the unit over time as things change?

[monoxide]

sure can,
you'll need the serial cable and more than likely a usb -> serial adapter

the thing i like the most is setting up the AN with Starry Night Pro and set it to 'follow scope' that way when you slew you see exactly where you are on the screen or you can issue a goto command and the argo will tell you where to go.

the only thing i found its missing is a button to make the clouds go away.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks for the info ;) I have an older version of SN which I don't think is upgradeable, but the picture you have painted might just entice me to purchase the latest version :thumbsup:

Btw, have you had yours long and if so, how often have you actually had to update data?

[monoxide]

ive had mine since the start of this thread (lol) and it came with the latest update although apparently you can put satellite/asteroid catalogues on and it has room for i think 1000(?) of your own objects that you can program in.

im not an expert at using it by any stretch of the imagination and as you can probably see in this thread it took me a couple goes at getting everything working properly but once you do its teriffic.

[DobDobDob]

Okay thanks TJ, I appreciate your replies, I'll be getting mine in August and will actually get Gary from Wildcard Innovations to set mine up for me, luckily I live reasonably close and can drive to him. He sounds like a cool bloke from his e-mails I have exchanged with him :thumbsup:

[Sentinel]

Got my AN on Wednesday. All ready to go, not a star since due to the weather. Gave me plenty of time to set things up properly. Photos at;

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~michellekemp/Album/Argo_Navis.html

I have upgraded from a Dave Ek Box with PalmDSC. I decided against a AN about 4 years ago and bought a StellarVue Refractor. Sold the StellarVue Refractor last week and bought a Argo Navis.

All the best with your AN.

[gary]

Hi Paul,

Your install looks really good.

Hope the weather clears for you soon.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
Mount Kuring-Gai NSW 2080
Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Sentinel]

Thanks Gary,

I could have done with another 100mm on the main encoder cable to the AZ encoder Eg 1.3 and 1.4

I can live with it for the moment but, I didn't factor in the rotating tube.

[DobDobDob]

Thanks for those photos Paul, they are very sharp and really show exactly what's going on. You must consider that I have never actually seen an AN outside of Gary's website and via photographs, so your shots were very interesting to me indeed :thumbsup:

[Sentinel]

No worries,

I have done some more work on the scope, tiding the cables and permanently wiring a 12V DC battery connector into the scope.

I'll post those to the website shortly.

I have done everything but point the AN at a star. We've got the weather that Sydney had at the beginning of the week.

[DobDobDob]

Mate, how can you stand it? It must be driving you crazy to have everything in place and no chance to use it, I feel for you Paul :(

[Tannehill]

Nice! Looks very ergonomic at eyepiece view. Classy looking scope, too.

scott

[Tannehill]

if you need another 10cm length, you can cut and re-splice regular ol' telephone cable to get yourself some extra length for that encoder...

scott

[Sentinel]

Paitence. The only thing for a situation like this. The forecast is lousy for the next couple of days as well.

I've taken the opportunity to remove the primary mirror cell and I am going to install some set screws (ones that can be undone with an Allen Hex Key) for the mirror clips. In that way I can remove the primary mirror without removing the whole cell.

[Sentinel]

Cheers Scott.

A lot of help but all made here.

One thing you cannot see is that the sides of the rocker are three pieces of Marine grade ply with a beautiful grain. The two outside pieces are 6mm the middle is 12mm, but have 10 large circles routed out of them. This cut down the weight of the rocker by about 3.5 Kg. By placing the 6mm Ply on the sides you would never know. Unfortunately, I actually never photographed the sides while they were being made.